posted on January 17, 2002 12:18:33 PM new
Well, it could be worse, 5 cents for BIN is not too bad, it could have been 25 or 50 cents. That will go up in the future. I don't use Dutch Auctions much, so that won't affect me (I know it affects other, but quite frankly I am more concerned how I am affected) and the new .25% won't make a huge dent either, a $20 item will now cost $1.05 instead of $1.00.
I've actually moved more items over to Yahoo, and am doing better than expected there. Still not a substitute for Ebay though, as many have said, where else is there to go? Your own web site works for some items, but not for others. I deal in collectibles, so I want to get as many people as possible looking at an item.
What I am most concerned about is not being done by Ebay, but the US Postal Service. Their new rate increase will create a headache for me and many other sellers, as it will now not be possible to quote a shipping charge on items that weight over 16 ounces. Not only will I have to answer a lot more email during the auctions, I will also have to deal with enraged buyers who were too lazy or ignorant to ask about shipping, and then they will be quoted a $10 shipping charge on something that cost them $5.20 to ship today just because they live across the country from me. That will be MUCH worse than any rate increase from Ebay
posted on January 17, 2002 12:23:23 PM new
The solutions can be a comibination of the following:
1. Don't use PayPal or Billpoint for sales above $50. Sure the pace of transactions will be slower -- so what? Online transaction processing is slow any way for most sellers because some buyers decide to pay 7 days or more after auction close. Go back to the days of olde, when a check or MO will do.
2. Raise your S&H fees. In business every increase or decrease in costs affect other areas of operations. Ebay's increase in fees will deprive me of gas money to drive to the PO, which means I will have to increase S&H (if you're looking for a link).
3. Work out your profit margins on paper before posting your items. Don't just list something because it looks cute, and you think it will sell. Make sure it will sell, at a profit which eBay, PayPal or Billpoint can take a chunk out of and still leave you some good change.
Finally, the most important: The only required fee to sell is your listing fee (FVF comes after the sale). Keep your listing fee to the minimum! Don't add all those fancy options, including gallery! If you've been selling a particular item for a while, there comes a time you don't even need to put it in gallery.
posted on January 17, 2002 12:59:11 PM new
we go over and over these "shipping fees" versus "handling fees".
if sellers would call it what it is and not lump it together under "shipping", people would not get as upset.
if you are charging a packaging fee, then call it that! break it out from the shipping charges and list it!
I puchased 4 keyboards for my office on a dutch auction. I paid $1.50 each packaging fee, and $12.00 shipping. I didn't mind this a bit because it was stated up front.
If I had been charged $18.00 shipping and saw a postage sticker for $12.00 I would have been upset.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:07:15 PM new
The market itself is a better judge of what is the best way to set prices and cover costs. The sellers who lose money on their auctions and associated marketing strategy will be forced out or tire of not making money - Those who do well stay. Sellers (Unless they use the auction as a form of marketing to pull business offline) MUST find someway to pass the transaction costs to their buyer or they will not make a profit. You can average it over many transactions, Charge a "Handling" fee or leave it to chance and hope your lucky- unless you find a way to cover your cost, your not going to get anywhere. RT auction houses charge a % buyers premium and people still buy because they know the terms before they bid.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:13:21 PM new
ahc3, I also sell collectibles and I'm in complete agreement. The small FVF percentage and the BIN fee (the only two ebay increases that will affect me) aren't going to hurt me much. But that USPS rate increase is going to be a pain. If you charge a fixed rate, then those close to you will scream "gouging" when they see the postage, or you can go through the headache of calculating shipping for every zone. While any boost of Priority rates would be painful, I could tolerate it more if they didn't get into this incremental nonsense.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:14:47 PM new
computerboy ...
All of the things you mentioned are legitimate, and they are all part of your cost of doing business. No one is arguing with you on that.
Try another analogy: When I go to the toy store and buy a new toy for $20.00, I pay $20.00. I don't pay separately for the box, shrinkwrap, instructions, etc. - these "costs" are all built-in to the $20.00.
So, if you are selling an item on eBay that is worth $10.00 and the packing box, peanuts, tape and drive to the post office are going to cost you $5.00, you really should list your item for $15.00. If you don't want to do that as you won't be competitive, but would rather make up the difference in your shipping and "handling" charges, then I don't think it's fair pool.
JMHO though ... and I know we have differing views on this.
I have no problem with a seller charging a huge shipping and "handling" fee as long as it is clearly stated in the listing (ie. not some generic, meaningless statement like "shipping and handling charges apply" or "if you win, contact me with your address for a shipping cost".
It may just be that eBay is going to put a few more sellers out of business with this latest increase coupled with the increase in real shipping costs.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:16:25 PM new
The fees aren't that drastic. Dutch Auctions are much higher but they were a deal before compared to single auctions.
There is really no alternative to eBay. It's supply and demand and eBay is holding almost all of the cards. Suppose there is only one theatre in town. They charge $6 a head to enter. They always fill the house. It would be foolish to not jack up prices.
There are almost 7 million items on eBay. Almost everything is priced to very low levels because of the competition brought on by the large number of items. Isn't it better in the long run for both eBay and the sellers for the actual number of items to drop. Prices can rise with reduced competition and the sellers and eBay get more profit as prices realized rise. Buyers lose out a little but as G W Bush said "Tough". As the numbers rise again because sellers sing the praises of increased prices realized from sales the process starts over again. Ebay again raises fees, some sellers quit, supply & demand take over, etc. eBay is in a win-win situation.
A wild theory but it has some merits.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:32:04 PM new
eBay has provided extremely exgressive growth projections to Wall Street since it went public a few year's ago. Thus far, they've been a shining star and have always met their earnings projections. Wall Street has, in turn, rewarded them for their impressive performance. There's one problem....
The projections moving forward graduate to what I view as an unrealstic level. Do you think eBay is going to be able to double, perhaps triple in size in the next few (5) years? This is what they are telling Wall Street they are going to do and they will have to deliver. They will be severely punished if they don't. How is eBay going to achieve these projected growth levels? By squeezing us sellers as hard as they can. In addition, they're going to have to continue to grow by acquisition and by entering new market channels that they are not currently maximizing. They cannot just stay the course doing what they are presently doing to meet these lofty growth numbers.
If you lay it all out and take a good look at the big picture, we can expect many new things from eBay in the coming years. They'll be introducing many new products many new ways for the masses to offer their goods to the sea of eager consumers. It's going to be interesting and the nickel increases are just the beginning. There are earth shattering and market defining changes up ahead and only the future knows what's in store for us.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:52:46 PM newIf you don't want to do that as you won't be competitive, but would rather make up the difference in your shipping and "handling" charges, then I don't think it's fair pool.
RB - I used to share the same view as you. I thought it was unfair that other sellers were charging higher s&h fees while their end was lower. Then it hit me that this is a smart move. s&h fees aren't subject to eBay fees and the seller gets to keep more of his/her share.
With eBay's Checkout feature, it has become easier for the buyer to calculate the total shipped price. If you don't like the seller's term, please don't encourage the seller by bidding. There is nothing worse than buying the item with all terms disclosed, then complaining about it later in e-mail, or worse as a negative feedback.
posted on January 17, 2002 01:55:57 PM new
computerboy, what new things from eBay are you talking about? Ebay is not an equipment designer/manufacturer or a software giant like Microsoft. They are in the auction business -- they charge sellers to survive...period! Without sellers (and buyers), eBay will have no business.
What innovative way is there to remain profitable as an online auctioneer without fees, fees and more fees? The only new invention they will come out with are more crazy policies, which will lead to sellers paying more to sell.
I promise you, there will be more new policies coming out after the new fee increase.
[ edited by springmoon on Jan 17, 2002 01:58 PM ]
posted on January 17, 2002 01:56:40 PM new
Well we have ourselves to blame. We have yahoo auctions just waiting for us to use and we are too greedy to take advantage of it. All that needs to happen is a mass of ebay sellers move to yahoo. Once the press reports it buyers will also go. Yahoo needs to have an advertising blitz to get sellers. They have the money to do it. Like computerboy said how is ebay going to get their projections? By nickle and dimeing sellers to death. The true answer is how much more are sellers willing to take.....or pay??
posted on January 17, 2002 02:23:30 PM new
Yahoo didn't start as an auction house. They're are spread too thin, and want to be everything to everybody. Can they meet the demanding needs of being a true online auctioneer? Even eBay has customer service issues -- and they're are suppose to be the baddest in town.
However, Yahoo seems to be the only worthwhile eBay competitor -- their user base (Yahoo as a whole) is quite huge.
posted on January 17, 2002 02:39:32 PM new
This is to Funny EBAY wants to charge .05 for BIN WHen bin vanishes if the ITem gets a bid.
every one realizes that this makes Ebay Stores one of the best deals going $9.95 a month and only a nickel per listing for up to 30 days.
If we could just get buyer to move there buying habbits to the ebay stores then both buyer and seller could have great Saveings.
This also make Yahoo all the more a better deal they have listing starting at .05 no charge for there by it price no charges for reserves and feature items that you bid on starting at .05 .
100 listings for $5.00 compare that to ebay, I think they are shooting there foot this time since the buyers are not going to take on much more added cost to buy in a few months shipping prices will be going up .
posted on January 17, 2002 02:50:30 PM new
It's really too bad that Yahoo sucks....lets face it....they don't have a good online auction site. Ebay is much better. I've given Yahoo Mercy Posting but to tell you the honest truth I really believe ..... and this is in my own opinion .... that they are idiots over there. You'd think with all the Wall Street IPO money they could get a system that works! Yahoo just doesn't care.....they've got your 401K money and now they are just going to vegetate.
posted on January 17, 2002 02:55:04 PM new
The exodus to Yahoo, which blairwitch suggested, may be profitable in the short term for remaining sellers. There will be fewer sellers, but same amount of buyers. Supply and demand will tip in the favor of the sellers.
Keep in mind the name "eBay" will be difficult to remove from buyers mind. When they think of online auction, they're thinking eBay. Reminds me of a Coca-Cola analogy: If Coca-Cola were to go broke today, and had *nothing*, It can walk into Big Global Bank, and put down its name as collateral for a multi-billion dollar loan.
posted on January 17, 2002 03:39:11 PM new
Interesting that e-bay did not raise their basic listing fees for single items.. Since it appears that many listings go unsold and a good part of their revenue must come from these listings, I guess they thought all this out very thoroughly.
buyhigh
posted on January 17, 2002 04:02:09 PM new
I think you are wrong thinking if sellers move there selling to yahoo it will incress sales for sellers on ebay .
if you do an honest study you will find that over the years more and more people we sell to are now selling for then selves as well.
There is less and less new computer users comeing on line more buyers are testing there selling wings, if enough people move selling to yahoo the better part of them are the better part will be the regular buyers as well.
Yahoo incressed its seller base when ebay started the checkout feature and if you think they wont gain even more of the market share over this you are mistaken
Right now it is costing me $60 to make $30 at ebay on average, bids may be slower comeing on yahoo but I can list 100 items $5 if I make $30 on that 100 items I incressed my profit on sales.
as well I dont need to pay for auction manageing or image hosting to sell on yahoo saveing even more $$$ the more I can save the lower my price has to be.
The playing feild is no longer level on ebay at this time as it is you have sellers out there listing and selling Item that cost $10 for .01 and $1 they list for a penny get only one bid I can't afford to compete with this.
posted on January 17, 2002 04:06:04 PM new
eBay should charge 5 cents for NOT using BIN. BIN moves the transaction faster and clears the server space quicker.
As Meg gets closer to the time limits of her revenue projections, watch for more increases. There will probably be a second increase this year.
As I have said time and agian before, every seller should be finding ways to by-pass eBay at every opportunity.
This includes your own site, and providing information in your EOA emails to YOUR customers about your site and other products you offer.
They are YOUR customers and YOUR business. eBay will not be there to help you if your business fails, they could care less.
posted on January 17, 2002 04:24:22 PM new
REAMOND
Not going to Happen I have heard more yelling and crying about ebay in the last two years then I care to remember.
This is what stands clean people are just yelling to hear them selves yell no matter how bad things get they continue to do just as they always did.
they are spending there $$$ to build the Ebay farm while they continue to allow ebay bleeds thier farm Dry.
Look at the number of people just in this thread still makeing the excusses for this company some are even saying over all the incress in cost isnt that much some are even saying the .10 to $15 incress will be un noticeable or they will just incress there handleing.
Sales have been falling off steadily for the last two year and since november trying to sell on ebay is about like trying to sell yahoo before they started chargeing listing fees last january most thing need to be listed two or more times to sell.
they incressed FVF because sell through is getting less they were loseing FVF they incress FVF by 1/4 to hopefully beat the odds come the second quarter of the year and maybe be able to show some incress or at least no loss. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
posted on January 17, 2002 04:59:53 PM new
For those who think 5 cents is no biggie -- I bet you flunked math in school. Multiply 5 cents by millions (every day), come back after a month and tell me what you think.
My only question is, what are they raising fees for? How much $$Dineros does it cost eBay to run a freaking website that it wants more, and more money from us? eBay is a cash cow! Every day, millions of auctions close, money pours into their bank account from all directions -- Billpoint included. I know they're not spending it on customer service, because every mail I get from them is auto-generated...or a form email. Is there an 800 number for CS? -- nope (may be there is, but it's hidden and you can never talk to a human).
Ok, may be their advertising budget is huge but I think they made big promises to their investors and trying to fulfill it -- at all costs.
posted on January 17, 2002 05:06:35 PM new
"Why not raise the starting bid instead, and be a little more upfront and honest."
Raising the starting bid for most of us won't help because we don't control the final bid price, the buyer does. A seller can be upfornt and honest by stating the s/h in the listing, an dit's up to the buyer what the final total they want to pay.
posted on January 17, 2002 05:12:19 PM new
I've already raised my handling .30¢ to help cover paypal fees, although I still lose money on that. Plus I absorbed the last USPS rate raise so I lose money on that.
posted on January 17, 2002 05:17:02 PM new
"They have figured out that you are making a 38% profit on your shipping charges ... I'd be pissed off too."
Who says it's a profit? The 38% covers a sellers costs.
posted on January 17, 2002 05:22:02 PM new
The rental fee for a brick-and-mortar store is by the square footage. Some choice locations such as a downtown mall, are expensive because of a higher rate per square footage. Chances are, when you open a store in such a location, the price of your goods usually costs more. A hotdog in a food court in that mall will cost more than one on a street corner 2 blocks away.
Well, if it gets pricier to sell on eBay, I *will* have to pass on the cost to my consumers -- by any legal means necessary.
posted on January 17, 2002 05:26:01 PM new
"if sellers would call it what it is and not lump it together under "shipping", people would not get as upset."
How's this? "Ok sir, your total with packaging + labor, paypal, gas, standing in line at PO, ebay fees,wear and tear on car, and postage is $15.95. Thank you and have a great day."
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Jan 17, 2002 05:27 PM ]
posted on January 17, 2002 05:35:26 PM new
Actually I don't know about all towns or cities But in this area You can lease or rent a B&M store front for starting At $300 a month and depending on what you sell could do very well Compared to the cost of selling on Ebay Full time many people infact paying ebay in excess of $600 or $1000 a month would make out better in the long run in a fair town.
I deal in new and collectable used Music records tapes CD and memorabilia and Just checking out the bussinesses of this nature in other places I could not only do better but many of the Items I sell could get a better price as well.
if you live in a town where you know one or two other online seller and pool resources for lights and rent you could make out pretty well on the side of cost and no returns due to shipping damages or lost mail.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com <br />
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Jan 17, 2002 05:37 PM ]
posted on January 17, 2002 05:37:20 PM new
"Try another analogy: When I go to the toy store and buy a new toy for $20.00, I pay $20.00. I don't pay separately for the box, shrinkwrap, instructions, etc. - these "costs" are all built-in to the $20.00."
That's a poor analagy because when you buy from a toy store they aren't shipping the item. If you bought from an online toy store you would pay for the box, shrinkwrap etc.
.
