posted on January 20, 2002 03:37:23 PM new
holdenrex, you're wrong here. Yes, ebay can charge for whatever they want (including logging on as someone jokingly suggested). However, BIN costs them nothing and actually HELPS ebay when offered. If a single user STOPS using BIN, then ebay has hurt themselves far more than they've helped by scamming a nickel.
Still there was NO *LOGICAL* reason to charge for BIN. None.
posted on January 20, 2002 08:10:14 PM new
It is a sly way to jack up the listing fee. I think eBay knows that both buyers and sellers really like the BIN option and they are now hooked. Like a pusher offering kids candy .....
posted on January 21, 2002 11:34:59 AM new
I just don't see a nickel charge for BIN being that significant. Many of my auctions have been won using BIN, to my delight.
posted on January 21, 2002 12:28:04 PM new
I am tired of all this. You know what? If you don't like the increased fees at ebay, don't sell there!!!! It suxs that they are greedy but that is called FREE ENTERPRISE!! If you don't like it then go somewhere else!!! My God, this is all we ever read anymore on all chat boards. Get over it or get out!!! That is what I am doing here....getting OUT!!!!!
SHEEEEEEEESHHHHH
>^,,^^,,^<
MEOW pft pft
posted on January 21, 2002 01:25:37 PM new
AllyKat is correct. If a .75% increase on a 5% FVF to a 5.75% FVF is the breaking point or a 5 cent BIN fee is your breaking point then why not quit eBay? Try your luck at graveyards like Bidville and see if you do better.
One of biggest things at eBay that makes it so very hard to make money there is the intense competition from other sellers. Anything that can thin the pack a bit has to be good for sellers.
posted on January 21, 2002 01:44:14 PM new
I'm not surprised about the new BIN fee, I'm appalled. They're punishing sellers despite no rule was violated. They did the same thing with the reserve.
"It suxs that they are greedy but that is called FREE ENTERPRISE!!"
It is free enterprise to set a reserve or BIN as high as you want but Ebay does not think so. Why should I have my free enterprise business restricted by ebay if we're in a free enterprise?
Also, a nickel won't kill us, but a 13% increase far exceeds inflation. The PO instated a similar rate increase, so an ebay seller has to cover 25% a year and inflation is at less than 2%. That is downright shocking and you pass it off as trivial?
posted on January 21, 2002 02:11:14 PM new
The BIN is optional. I sell half of my stuff with BIN prices so it is only a minor fee to me. If a lot of sellers abandon the BIN then I may sell even more items with the BIN price due to the reduced number of BIN offerings.
Most of any eBay fee increases will be passed onto the buyers in the end. Even if eBay were to double their existing fees there would only be a minor drop in listings on their site in my opinion.
posted on January 21, 2002 02:41:59 PM new
I don't know. Anymore this whole fee thing is like being pecked to death by chickens.
By the time the ebay fees kick in, the postal service raises their rates...might as well throw in PayPal, Billpoint, and AW (they'll want a bigger piece of the pie too), it kinda makes me wonder who I'm working for.
It's a shame there isn't any real competition for ebay. As it is, they can charge anything they want and the only way it can be slowed down or stopped is when they finally reach the point where nobody BUT ebay is making a profit.
posted on January 21, 2002 05:48:17 PM new
i emailed eBay with similar thoughts like I read here, maybe they will see that it doesnt make sense to charge for BIN
since they earn (mostly ) more more
if auction closes with a (higher) BIN
maybe if more of us email they might consider
not charging.
after all they are "the largest market place"
because they have the most sellers,
so they should hear us out.
posted on January 21, 2002 05:53:17 PM new
quickdraw, I'm curious as to how you're deriving the 13% increase. Bidsbids incorrectly reported the increase in FVF as 0.75% when it's actually 0.25%, which results in the following:
To put it in a more practical light, the FVF on a $15 sale would increase by 3.75 cents, a $100 sale would increase by a quarter, and a $1200 sale would increase by $3.
posted on January 21, 2002 06:41:31 PM new
I think eBays plan is to make frequent but small fee increases. I would bet within 6 months they raise the fees again. In a clever move they begin charging for BIN (which is free on yahoo)which was a clever way of raising the insertion fee. Dont count yahoo out yet because they are just waiting for sellers to get fed up and move there. The catagories at yahoo are growing slowly but steady. I did get a hat from yahoo!
posted on January 21, 2002 08:29:29 PM new
let me show how goofy your position is twinsoft ebay decides to charge for the privilage of acessing ebay to view ebay decides to charge for a search ebay decides to require the use of monitoring software that forbids you to sell somewheres else ebay decides to charge you for it ebay decides we are in a war where the president promised no gouging these increases are on top of record profits they are illegal and profitering
posted on January 21, 2002 08:43:37 PM new
Well, that is the price of doing business on eBay - what can you do? No one will actually strike, no one will leave in mass and stay gone, so all the moaning and whining is for naught!
You can't organize independent sellers to do much of anything; they are like independent truckers, all talk – no real action.
Talking is good for venting, but not much will be accomplished, and the charge will go into effect just like all eBay's others.
Yes, once in a while eBay backs down on something they institute, but realize 99.999% of the time it is not dealing with money, but something like the "Closing Instructions,” which doesn’t cost eBay.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:21:01 PM new
Ok, let's do a little comparitive number crunching to determine how much BIN benefits ebay. To make things real simple, let's say you post 100 7-day auctions (single category, no frills) and you offer BIN on all your auctions. Your opening bid is $80, your BIN is $100. Assume 40% sell at the BIN, 40% sell at an average final price of $90, and the other 20% go unsold. Your customers make their BIN purchases throughout the 7-day period, but let's say it averages out at 3.5 days, which permits you to relist 40% of your inventory at the halfway mark, which results in 40% of the relists getting sold at the conclusion of the 7-day period (assuming of course that you have a supply that permits immediate relists of the identical items). Let's also assume this is happening after the FVF increase, so all FVFs fall in the 2.75% range and all listing fees at this price range are $2.20 each.
First scenario, here's the total amount ebay makes assuming there's no fee for the BIN:
$110 FVF for 40 sold at $100 BIN
$ 99 FVF for 40 sold at $90 auction price
$ 44 FVF for 16 $100 BINs from relists
$308 Listing fees for all 140 auctions
===========================================
$560 Total Fees
Second scenario, let's assume after the BIN fee, you opt to continue using it at the 5 cent fee. The ebay fees would be identical to above, plus the BIN fee, ergo:
$560 Previous Total Ebay Fees
$ 7 BIN fees (140 auctions at 5 cents each)
===========================================
$567 Total Ebay Fees
Third scenario, you decide to forego the BIN because of the fee so all auctions go the full 7 days. Assuming you still sell 80% at an average of $90, here's the results:
$198 FVF Total
$220 Listing Fees
===========================================
$418 Total Ebay Fees
Fourth scenario, same as the third case except making the assumption that use of BIN results in more completed total sales at a generally higher price (the impatient bidders go elsewhere). So let's say you drop BIN, resulting in only 70% sell-through and at an average lower price of $85:
$164 FVF Total
$220 Listing Fees
============================================
$384 Total Ebay Fees
So would loss of BIN sales hurt ebay? YES it would. But here's the catch. If BIN is good for ebay because it generates more cumulative FVFs for them, then it's good for you, the seller for the same reason. What's been overlooked here is the relative benefit to the seller. Let's take a look at the total sales the seller makes in the above four scenarios, both before and after ebay fees:
Case 1: $11,264 gross; $10,704 after fees
Case 2: $11,264 gross; $10,697 after fees
Case 3: $ 7,200 gross; $ 6,782 after fees
Case 4: $ 5,950 gross; $ 5,566 after fees
And yes, since it's a fixed-price fee, the impact will be felt more in the nickel-and-dime auctions, so here is a breakdown of the same cases, replacing the variables with an $8 starting bid, $10 BIN, $9 average auction price ($8.50 in case 4), listing fee of 30 cents and FVF rate of 5.25%:
Case 1: $920 gross; $852.88 after fees
Case 2: $920 gross; $845.88 after fees
Case 3: $720 gross; $652.20 after fees
Case 4: $595 gross; $533.76 after fees
So yes, if there's such a reaction against the 5-cent fee that sellers stop using it, then ebay is shooting itself in the foot. Ebay is banking on the fact that sellers want to maximize their own profit, so they'd rather choose Case 2 ($7 less than Case 1) over the other two cases. If you are a low-end seller, are you willing to drop BIN in order to deprive ebay of $7 at a loss of a couple hundred for yourself? Of course these are only examples (and highly idealized at that) so do your own number crunching and determine your own course of action. I will acknowledge this much: It would take relatively few sellers in the above situation to "Boycott the BIN" and make an impact, if you can find enough sellers willing to reduce their own profit for an extended period.
For the record, I don't even fit this model because I sell collectibles so I don't have a reserve of identical items to relist. The benefits of BIN in the antique/collectible market are questionable - I've seen items get BIN'd for well over typical auction value while others have been BIN'd at ridiculously low prices where the seller would have been much better off to not offer the BIN in the first place. So it's well nigh impossible to determine if, on average, BIN is a help or a hindrance to both the seller and ebay's FVF in the antiques/collectibles marketplace.
posted on January 22, 2002 02:40:49 AM new
I think eBay crunched the numbers a thousand different ways before coming up with the 5 cent BIN option fee. eBay has a lot of actual figures to use and not make stabs in the dark comparisons.
Another factor about BIN prices is lost profits by sellers and eBay for sellers that set a BIN way too low. Makes a lot of buyers happier than hell but takes profits from some sellers and eBay. That can be offset by BIN prices that are way too high that are hit on by unexpierenced buyers. That is extra profits by sellers and eBay made because of BIN price option usage.
posted on January 22, 2002 08:33:02 AM new
I don't think eBay crunched any numbers in a thousand different ways. You're giving them too much credit.
They just assumed 5 cents wasn't a big deal for most sellers. Their maths was simple:
0.05 X Number Of BINs (per/month) = $BigDinero (per/month)
They probably also took into consideration that the Number of BINs will fluctuate, but since we sellers are so hooked on eBay they will come out ahead.
This is purely, what I call the "Las Vegas Syndrome". The longer you stay in a casino gambling, the house will eventually come out ahead.
posted on January 22, 2002 09:59:11 AM new
The bottom line is that offering BIN costs ebay nothing and gains them everything. TO charge for it is 100% illogical.
Now, some are interpreting my analysis as complaining and they are wrong. Yes, ebay was stupid to do it...but also yes, I will continue to use it.
As I said, the base listing fee just went up from $0.30 to $0.35 for me.
posted on January 22, 2002 10:24:43 AM new
eBay did it because they are in a position to do so. They can always say "you do not have to use that feature". They come out smelling like a rose because the fee hikes are mostly aimed at optional features ( BIN, Dutch, Reserve ). The .25% FVF increase to 5.25% ( got it right this time ) is a triffling amount for low end items.
I know the importance of the BIN to me on most of my auction items so it works out to a 5 cent listing fee increase for me but not for all sellers.
posted on January 22, 2002 10:56:22 AM new
peiklk, your last posting perfectly illustrates why ebay is charging the BIN fee. You admit that you're going to continue using BIN even though it will effectively raise your listing fee to 35 cents. If BIN gains ebay "everything, " you are still giving them "everything" plus an extra nickel per listing. That's why it makes perfect sense for them to charge the fee - because it costs them nothing additional and people are willing to pay for it.
posted on January 22, 2002 12:04:11 PM new
We can't really say it costs them nothing -- obviously they paid programmers to implement that feature. It is much more accurate to say it cost them peanuts.
posted on January 23, 2002 09:28:37 PM new
holdenrex, the 13% increase is based on BIN fee and FVF fee. I also used my sales to come up with the number. Sellers who don't use BIN will see a smaller percentage increase, as will sellers who use BIN less often.
Ebay reports 25% of auctions end with BIN, and that doesn't include auctions that had BIN to start but got no bids, or the first bid didn't reach the BIN price.
Amazingly, I discovered some new things about using BIN: Can't use it in Dutch auctions; can't use it in multiple categories. And for this we pay extra for using BIN??
