posted on January 25, 2002 11:20:37 AM
I would call her local police again. She does not seem very interested in solving the problem. Writing bad checks is illegal. And dealing directly with the woman will probably not get you anywhere. Don't try to harass her or her family; it might feel good, but will not help and will just make them angry.
As for eBay ignoring your feedbacks, write back to them and state that the woman is under investigation for fraud. Point out that the POLICE (not you) may contact her other bidders to warn them about receiving stolen property. This is not a threat, it just states one possibility very clearly. eBay probably does not want a letter going out to hundreds (???) of bidders basically saying:
You have bid on stolen items and items fraudulently obtained. eBay was notified but refused to warn its customers or ban the seller. Please contact us with any info...
Probably not a good idea to send that to eBay, unless the cops tell you (in writing is better) that they will.
Also, document all your phone calls and emails that you generate while dealing with eBay, the fraudster, and the police. Writing it here is probably fine, but print out a copy of the updated thread (or save to hard drive) so that you have your own copy.
Anyways, keep dealing with the police. I bet once eBay gets a subpoena, they'll start paying attention to your problem, and at least remove the feedbacks.
Getting your money might be harder; I wouldn't even respond to the woman at this point, except to itemize for her what she owes (original charges, bounced check fees, etc). Then just respond with the same request everytime she emails you.
Write your letters clearly and concisely, don't use hyperbole, be courteous and don't make threats. Hopefully, that will get results. Good luck.
posted on January 25, 2002 01:33:44 PM
She states that she will make payment through bidpay on or before Feb 5th. I'd probably just wait to see if she honors that date before
going to the police again. At least you will
have an easy time proving that she defaulted if you don't receive the notification from bidpay
on or before the 5th.
As for the feedback, isn't attacking a person's
character a no no:
1. So I understand you have a habit of cashing checks that are not for you--NICE!
2. May I recommend therapy? You obviously have problems!!!
3. Unless you want to deal with this woman's "issue's" avoid at all cost!!!
4. How are you still in business? May I recommend PROZAC?
AND After reading all of your neg feedback I placed a stop payment.. Hah to you!
(which is a Blatant lie and you have proof)
You could try contacting ebay again and be persistant. It may work.
Here's another idea, (it would be nice if you already had a friend who was a lawyer)
1
Have a lawyer write a letter explaining the harassing nature of the feedback, its slanderous nature, and lies (saying she stopped payment). It also damages your reputation and may affect future sales.
Have he/she also explain that she is selling this same merchandise in her store and that
ebay may be held accountable because they are assisting in the sale of stolen property (by not warning other members) and
selling stolen property is fraud.
Make sure the letter is on legal header.
Request in the letter that all feedback associated with this user be removed or you may be forced to take the following action......
(ask the lawyer what this would be)
Enclose a scan of the NSF checks as proof only if the lawyer recommends it.
This whole idea of having a lawyer write ebay a letter may still not get the feedback removed but it may get their attention and make them reconsider their innitial decision.
posted on January 25, 2002 02:01:44 PM
All: It has been eight days since we started filing NPB notices on the 45 or so auctions Mrs. Deadbeat is so desperately trying to default on. So in two more days I can start with FVFs. It should be interesting. In the past, with multiple defaults by a single bidder, that bidder's account was automatically suspended after I filed the third FVF.
I can only speculate that she has no idea this is about to happen. Let's let it be a surprise for her, 'kay?
posted on January 25, 2002 08:55:42 PM
Here is another spin, please everyone else jump in on this cuase I am not sure about it.
If you NPB/FVF you collected your fees back from eBay, does that not remove the obligation from her. Yes I know about if you bid on an auction etc, etc. Wondering if you should file the NPB then wait on the FVF till the last minute incase she pays you.
Last thing you want is to file all the FVF, have the check arrive then her report you for getting your fee back.
posted on January 25, 2002 09:34:00 PM
Jim, the way I understand this is
NPB was filed 8 days ago (1/17) so in 2 days bettylou can file FVF (1/27). But you are correct, if bettylou agreed to accept payment as late as 2/5 then I think she should WAIT to file FVF on the first NSF check ($189). Otherwise if Mrs. NSF does pay on 2/5, bettylou will need to reverse all those FVF's. You just know that Mrs. NSF is waiting to report her to ebay!
But the second NSF check (which items were never sent) bettylou can file FVF because it appears there has been no attempt to repay that NSF check or any fees bettylou was charged.
-----
I am not as skilled as professorhiggins
as I still don't know how you are on ebay. I would love to read the feedback Mrs NSF left for you. I will admit, I tried my still have no clue.
posted on January 25, 2002 10:26:49 PM
Waiting to get the FVF until after 2/5 is not a
bad idea assuming that you can afford to wait
without exceeding ebay's time limit.
However, the way I understand it is that there
were to batches of auctions won.
The first batch was for $189.00 approx and
the merchandise was shipped and the check bounced.
The second batch was for $258 and the check bounced. However, the merchandise was not shipped.
The buyer has only agreed to pay for the $189
batch of auctions and will do so (in theory)
on or before 2/5. In this case, if she pays I would agree that filing for FVF on those auctions would be a bad thing.
However, the buyer is still planning to default/cancel the second batch of auctions for $258 and it is these auctions which I believe bettylou is planning to get the FVF back.
Now how to go about doing that....
She could
A) File FVF in 2 days and risk
irritating the buyer to default on the upcoming 2/5 payment (though if she did default I would think that would be even worse for her.)
B) File FVF after 2/5 (which may still make the buyer mad unless bettylou files the FVF with the "BOTH PARTIES AGREE TO CANCEL THE TRANSACTION" stipulation which of course is NOT TRUE but it would keep the deadbeat from being suspended and having more
reason (in her mind) to harass bettylou.
Frankly, I'm hoping that the deadbeat gets suspended.
posted on January 26, 2002 07:39:27 AM
professorhiggins is correct.
The first batch (which is all that she intends to pay for) was shipped to her some weeks ago. It is too late unfortunately to file NBP/FVFs on any of those auctions.
(It is our standard policy to file NBP on any check that bounces, regardless of promises to pay, if the time limit hasn't expired.)
However, the second batch (which she has decided to default on) had NPBs filed on them eight days ago. There were 33 auctions in the second batch I could still file NPBs on. Starting at 6:40 am on 01/28/01, I can start filing for Final Value Fees.
We will do nothing to block Mrs. Deadbeat's suspension. Pandering to crooks in hopes that they "won't get mad" sets a bad precedent.
posted on January 28, 2002 09:08:28 AM
We've filed 13 FVFs on Mrs. Deadbeat this morning and guess what....
She hasn't been suspended.
20 more to go, but if she's still "alive" on eBay after the first 13, that means they're not going to do anything about it.
I sent yet another letter to SafeHarbor and am expecting yet another brushoff any minute now.
Please...if anyone has a media contact, this is a story that needs to be told. Not only does she get off scot-free with two bounced checks, she's thumbing her nose at us selling our items in her eBay store.
posted on January 28, 2002 10:40:31 AM
I always thought that you had to have 4 Final Value Fee refund request from 4 different sellers. Not sure and could not find the info on ebay.
I also have read on boards that sometimes you must report them before ebay NARU them. But at times will I filed FVF I have seen bidders automatically get NARU.
---------------
I can not wait to see if Mrs. Deadbeat pays on 2/5. Bet you can't either!
Non-Paying bidders face the following consequences through this program:
• First offense: warning
• Second offense: warning
• Third offense: Indefinite Suspension
I thought the second offense results in a 30 day suspension but I couldn't find that anywhere.
I submitted three credit requests for auctions that had the same high bidder, why isn't that bidder now suspended?
There could be a number of reasons. First, the system will not automatically suspend a bidder if that bidder receives three Non-Paying Bidder Warnings from one seller. This does not mean that the bidder will not be suspended, it simply means that the bidder will be manually reviewed and, if appropriate, suspended.
I'd email Safeharbor and ask for that review, for sure!
posted on January 28, 2002 02:43:25 PM
I have already emailed SafeHarbor to ask for the manual review. No response yet.
But we all know what the likely outcome is when you "ask" eBay to do something.
eBay does not care that I lost listing fees on 33 auctions, or that Mrs. Deadbeat is selling my items in her eBay store.
I'm having one of those days where I'm considering just giving up completely.
Got an email from a angry bidder this morning:
########### is the auction number and I paid weeks ago, WHERE is the item?
The number was wrong, I couldn't even decipher it by transposing digits. I wrote back and said we needed the correct auction number, plus his first and last name to trace the payment.
The response: "I have never dealt with anyone so unbelievably rude and nasty." What??? I just asked for some info so I could process his request. Then he left me a negative saying the same thing! What's the matter with people? Are they just looking for any excuse to rag on somebody, anybody?
posted on January 28, 2002 02:46:27 PM
As far as the "three unique sellers" goes, I have had a number of multiple-auction deadbeats accuse me of getting them suspended.
I countered that they had to have stiffed two other sellers as well, but they claim not to have.
So I don't know what to think about that any more. Without having access to eBay's source code, I don't think there's a good answer to that question.
posted on January 28, 2002 04:58:59 PM
Does that mean that before Mrs. Deadbeat gets NARU that 2 other people have to go through the same thing. I sure hope I am not one of them.....
posted on January 28, 2002 05:08:04 PM
bettylou, I can't help, but I may be able to point you to someone who is having as bad a month as are you. See:
http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedbackMemberLeft&[email protected]&items=25
posted on January 30, 2002 10:48:46 AM
Got an email from a angry bidder this morning:
########### is the auction number and I paid weeks ago, WHERE is the item?
You might want to pull contact information on this person.........If it is a family member or someone living conveniently close to your problem bidder then that is harrasment.
Since she MAILED the check that is clearly mail fraud. Mail fraud staffers don't play as many games as Ebay or other would.....they will process your claim. It doesn't need to bouce twice blah blah blah.
If you do recieve the other check don't bother depositing it.......
Walk inside the bank and cash it in person.
If you end up getting a bidpay money order again walk into the bank and cash it in person.
Don't open yourself up to any more delays and headaches.
As far as her selling your stolen merchandise
report it like any other violation. In the same spot where you report someone for fee avoidance or keyword spamming or selling copied software there is a category of complaint for selling of stolen property.
btw on your stuff she is selling is she also using your pictures???
Instead of always deleting her username......according to AW guidlines you can mention her username or item numbers by forwarding a copy to [email protected] and with a CC copy to her with the link of this thread. Maybe a copy to safeharbor and or the square person involved.
posted on January 31, 2002 12:20:42 PM
Wow! What a horror story! I'm going to quit sending packages as soon as I receive the check. I have to say that buyers seem to be hyper sensitive lately. My end of auction message repeats my auction statement of "payment being expected within 7 days of auction end". (Actually I allow them more time than that, but they don't need to know that!) A buyer recently sent his payment along with a message saying that he didn't appreciate the "threat" and that "in the midwest we trust our fellow man". Right.
posted on January 31, 2002 01:21:48 PM
kasue,
<br />
I guess that buyer doesn't know what it feels like to get burned! Here's some fun stuff I went through:
<br />
1. Bidder aggressively bid antique game up very high. Emailed me shortly before EOA, "Can I retract bid, I bought from someone else." Checked her history: She had bid on about 20 of same game at once and paid for them all except mine. Was still buying same game last time I check (almost a year!).
<br />
2. Bidder won auction on a sweatshirt of a popular band. Ignored EOA emails. Checked his history: he had bid on a huge amount of auctions for the same band. Chose a few he decided to pay for, ignored the rest.
<br />
3. Winning bidder of a dress ignored all emails until I relisted item. Suddenly I received a Paypal payment! Checked his history: buys about 50 dresses a day, makes payments every 2-3 weeks.
<br />
<br />
Lately a rash of vanishing bidders has occurred. Bidders just don't see the need to respond to my EOA emails with how and when they will pay. I guess they think I can read minds. They even ignore 2nd and 3rd requests. This was not a problem until a few months ago.
<br />
<br />
[ edited by alwaysbroke on Jan 31, 2002 01:24 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2002 08:56:25 AM
Inquiring minds want to know! With all due respect Bettylou, this thread lasted 2 cups of coffee. May I make a suggestion that perhaps would make this unfortunate situation turn into a golden oppurtunity? Call the networks and tell them you have a story line for an upcoming MadeforTV movie, soap opera, special, or better yet an HBO comedy/drama type show!!! IT WOULD SELL!!!
posted on February 2, 2002 03:07:41 PM
All: No payment as yet from Mrs. Deadbeat. Last time I checked she was still trying to sell a couple of my items in her eBay Store.
Received a very interesting letter from the office of the District Attorney in **** Colorado, specifically from the Criminal Justice Victim Assistance Program. I don't know how they can help collect the funds due on Mrs. D's two NSF checks, but it's nice to know someone cares enough to mail me.
I plan to call Mrs. D's bank Monday to see if 1) there are now funds available or 2) she did something spectacularly stupid like closing the account. If she closes the account, her local PD will take action.
(Thanks, Mom, for reminding me I hadn't checked in here for a couple of days!)
posted on February 2, 2002 05:50:37 PM
Here's the latest from ever-helpful eBay:
Hello,
Thank you for writing in about aweebitofraud. [Not her eBay id].
I can certainly understand why you are frustrated with this situation.
As you know, our privacy policy is very strict, so it is difficult to
explain the buyer's situation.
While the "not a registered user" tag line does not follow the
aweebitofraud [Not her eBay id] User ID, they are not able to buy or sell on eBay, or
transact in any way. I cannot tell you the duration of this status, but
I can tell you it is a technical issue unrelated to the NPB issues with
their account. I have placed a note on the account further explaining
your experience with this user, including the bad checks they sent you.
Fortunately, there are some options available as you try to resolve this
situation with your trading partner.
First, it is recommended that you contact your buyer over the phone to
try and settle the situation. You can request another person's contact
information through eBay by going to:
Second, I understand that resolving these disputes can sometimes be
difficult. To help you, we've partnered with Square Trade, an online
dispute resolution service. To learn more about SquareTrade please go
to:
If payment or the merchandise was sent via the United States Postal
Service, you may wish to file mail fraud charges. I would encourage you
to review the information on the Postal Service Web page about Fraud on
the Internet. At that time, you will have the option to file Mail Fraud
Charges. This information can be found on the following page:
http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/
In certain cases you might want to contact the local law enforcement in
your area as well as the buyer's area. Here are instructions for how to
find local law enforcement with internet search engines:
Visit a yellow pages search engine, such as Lycos Yellow Pages. Click on
"Change Location." Enter the ZIP code of the fraudulent shipping
address. In the search box, type in "police."
You can also perform this police search by entering the address of the
user in question at the URL below:
Okay, so this is the first I've heard of a "status" an eBay user can have that is neither 1) member in good standing, or 2) NARU. Anyone heard of this before?
posted on February 2, 2002 06:01:22 PM
Wellll.......How interesting. It sounds like this seller has some other concerns about her business on eBay. I guess only time will tell. Keep us posted Bettylou
posted on February 2, 2002 06:01:26 PM"As you know, our privacy policy is very strict, so it is difficult to explain the buyer's situation."
Makes you wonder what she's been telling eBay doesn't it???? Especially since they did tell you it has to do with all the NPB's she's gotten. I believe you gave her quite a few didn't you??? Maybe she's crying about how unfair you are....you 'ole meannie you!
What did they do, make up a new rule for her???
If I am reading this right, it's saying she's not allowed to buy, sell or trade on eBay for a undisclosed amount of time (just like she was suspended) but it will not show that she is suspended anywhere on eBay.
Wonder who she knows?????
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Feb 2, 2002 06:06 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2002 07:08:20 PM
If the person can't trade on eBay but is not NARU-ed, it may not be too far-fetched to speculate that perhaps eBay is also struggling with collection of fees issues from this person. Whaddayaknow.
posted on February 3, 2002 09:25:03 AM
[bettylou] Okay, so this is the first I've heard of a "status" an eBay user can have that is neither 1) member in good standing, or 2) NARU. Anyone heard of this before?
[birgittaw] If the person can't trade on eBay but is not NARU-ed, it may not be too far-fetched to speculate that perhaps eBay is also struggling with collection of fees issues from this person. Whaddayaknow.
This is related to fees not being paid.
I went a little overboard with featured fees in December and I still have not been able to pay it all off yet. I won't be Naru'd Since I am a valid user with no neg probs or complaints, and I have valid contact info and email. My current auctions are still running......but end today.
But until I get the rest of those fees paid I can't list of bid until it is paid. I am not in big trouble I just need to pay the rest of the bill.
lol maybe she signed up to pay Ebay fees with a checking account and it bounced off them too........
