posted on February 11, 2002 02:19:16 PM
My weekly volume on eBay is very small right now(mostly as needed),I sell mostly on Half now, but I was doing 25-30 per week at one point.
But the volume doesn't matter. Every bidder is entitled to an EOA, payment received and item shipped emails. That takes a whopping minute and a half to do all three.
posted on February 11, 2002 02:32:51 PM
"My weekly volume on eBay is very small right now(mostly as needed), I sell mostly on Half now, but I was doing 25-30 per week at
one point."
I haven't sold as few as 30 items a week in quite a few years, so forgive me if I don't grant you the respect your opinion might get from others.
Your system, as described, is fine. For 30 items a week, perhaps 50, perhaps even 75. When a seller is doing 10 times 30 items a week, it breaks down. Totally.
"Every bidder is entitled to an EOA, payment received and item shipped emails."
posted on February 11, 2002 02:51:16 PM
If I send a check to Coldwater Creek to buy a dress, CC does not send me snail mail or email to let me know my payment has been received.
Neither does CC send me snail mail or email to let me know that my order has shipped.
CC simply ships my order.
How novel.
It works the same way for just about every mail order catalogue in existence.
If I order from Amzn.com, Amzn sends me an order confirmation email. Amzn provides order tracking. Amzn sends me email when my order ships.
Amzn also spent tens of millions of dollars to implement systems that do this.
That is the difference.
It's far more realistic to follow the mail order model. That's what we do.
posted on February 11, 2002 04:09:23 PM
to quote Mr. 2face in the Batman movie: "I'm of 2 minds on this."
1. I just paid for an auction from a low-volume seller. Rec'd personal e-mails - I appreciated that.
but....
2. A high volume seller has to keep operating/labor $$ down to keep prices appealing. So if I don't get personal e-mails - [i]I understand that.]
Although I prefer personal mails, I don't expect to get them from everybody. I try to be flexible.
Follow-up mails about rec'd pymnt & shipping help ease my anxiety of not knowing if everything is ok, but I try to hold off on the e-mails & give the seller time to process & ship.
I just hope the seller would let me know a payment never arrived before giving me a neg.
We could just be politely waiting for each other to send an e-mail while the clock ticks.....
posted on February 11, 2002 05:14:02 PM
I can only imagine what a seller's packing must be like if basic communication is too much of their time
Frankly, excuses for not communicating are precisely why people don't buy on eBay. There is not a single non-eBay web site that I have ordered from that has failed to acknowledge my order or provided me with some sort of shipping status.
This has nothing to do with automated email or anything else. It's called communication. If you can't handle such a minor level of communication, it's almost a given that you won't be able to handle anything where something goes wrong. Or if I want to order something additional without going through the gymanstics of another 7-day auction.
FWIW, I have made it a point to reward sellers with repeat business. Many bidders have done the same with me. It's a win-win situation. If you could run fewer auctions and increase your dollar/sales volume, would you do it? Nobody in their right mind would think a minute and half of their time would be too much in that light. So what's your REAL excuse?
posted on February 12, 2002 05:05:31 PM
You got that from ebay's rules? Because, the use of the word "should" is not a word to denote a rule, it can only be a guideline. From ebay's help page, it says, "It is suggested, not required that members contact each other within 3 business days." However, if you dig further ebay states a seller can void a sale after three business days and offer it to the next highest bidder. I couldn't find anything that requires a seller to contact the buyer in 3 B-days.
As for repeat business, who needs it? Obtaining a new customer only costs .30¢. What does it cost you to keep an old one? Besides I've tried everything in the book to get repeat business and it nothing works. Problem is, buyers want a good selection and ample inventory. My inventory is always chasing after different markets so I don't go after repeat biz.
"It's much better to let your customer know what your priorities are AFTER they've entered into a contract with you."
I'm not responsible for another adult. Mail order (including major companies) for decades has never sent an item the next day after receiving an order. It is nothing new for the consumer to wait.
I may devote time where it helps me increase sales because that's where I get paid. I don't get paid in shipping. Shipping is where I lose money. When consumers wish to pay me fair wage for shipping then I will devote more time to getting the order through faster. Put your money where your mouth is, in other words.
posted on February 12, 2002 05:20:39 PM
"Every bidder is entitled to an EOA, payment received and item shipped emails. That takes a whopping minute and a half to do all three."
A buyer is not entitled to anything except receiving the item they won. You stated something about getting repeat business, so your intention is only to send these notices to get repeat biz, not because you are a saint. You may be able to pull the wool over your buyers eyes, but not mine.
Take a "whopping minute and a half " times 50 buyers, and you have a whopping 75 minutes not listing auctions; not packaging and shipping; not with your family.
posted on February 12, 2002 06:49:49 PM
It's clear that some people do not know how to conduct business and are completely unteachable. It gives good eBay sellers a bad rap. Dollars to doughnuts that those who profess such shoddy practices would never want to be on the receiving end of them if they had a choice.
I work for a company that treats every customer as if they are our only one. We still have our first client after more than 60 years, do well over a billion dollars annually, and have a clientele most companies would die for.
Yes I want repeat business. No that doesn't make me either a saint or a sinner. It's not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. Treating people with respect and courtesy and letting them know the status of a transaction is called professionalism.
You do not have to sacrifice your business or personal life to send email or properly package something. It's part of the job.
If you are too lazy to work the time or you don't care about your customers that's fine. Just don't BS anyone that you are too busy or can't.
posted on February 12, 2002 07:14:01 PM
It doesn't take a minute and a half to send 100 customers per week receipt-of-payment emails, item shipped emails and follow-up emails. It takes hours. Depending on your business plan and profit margin, it's easy to see why some sellers don't feel this is a necessary part of the transaction.
Dollars to doughnuts that those who profess such shoddy practices would never want to be on the receiving end of them if they had a choice.
I don't know how this thread got personal, but I can tell you as a buyer I only care about getting my item in a timely manner. I am careful who I buy from, so that reassurances from the seller are unnecessary.
posted on February 12, 2002 07:43:09 PM
mballai makes a classic erroneous assumption: That those who sell do not buy.
I buy on eBay. Some, but not all, of the merchandise I sell I have purchased on eBay. (If you want to see, go look at my auctions. I gave my eBay userid in the "Bidder passes..." thread.)
I have never, not once, not EVER gotten:
1) a payment-received notice
2) an item-shipped notice
from ANY seller. And it's okay by me, just as long as they ship in a reasonably prompt manner.
My buying experience is how I know that mballai's views are peculiar to mballai.
Further, I assert that mballai is deliberately attempting to create buyer dissatisfaction by promoting this fantasy of hand-holding customer service as the normal way of doing business on eBay. I can only speculate as to motive.
posted on February 12, 2002 07:59:17 PM
twinsoft said:
"It doesn't take a minute and a half to send 100 customers per week receipt-of-payment emails, item shipped emails and follow-up emails. It takes hours."
Indeed. Not to mention one basic but not often mentioned fact:
Email generates more email.
It's true. If I sent out 300 item-shipped emails per week, I would get 200 "so when do you think it will get here?" responses.
That's not a question I want to be in the business of answering, since delivery times are completely out of my control.
But the point is that some people are so jazzed to get email from a real person, any email, that they will keep the exchange going as long as they can. It's not cost-effective to get that ball rolling.
Cost-effectiveness is why at some banks now you can only use the ATMs. Tellers are reserved for customers with bigger balances. It's also why you can't call eBay, or just about any support organization any more. It's why hardware and software vendors have Knowledge Databases online for you to peruse, because they don't want to talk to you.
I understand that tender feelings, cultivated by decades of "The customer is never wrong", are being bruised by the cold realities of 21st century customer service. But I also understand that customers, by their addiction to price-comparison shopping and the single-minded pursuit of the low-low-lowest price, brought this entirely upon themselves.
posted on February 12, 2002 08:26:00 PM
This thread opened with a buyer/seller. I buy and sell. Most eBayers who sell also buy. I love how people put words into people's mouths that they never said.
If your experience is that no one ever provides you with communication, I don't doubt it. Most of the people I have dealt with do provide an acknowledgement of some sort. I have been on eBay for years and have bought hundreds of items, some of which were quite expensive. Many were not. The price did not seem to matter with most of the sellers in terms of what they did or did not do.
This is not handholding at all. When you buy something in a store, they give you a receipt and not always but often, they say thank you. If you order something in a store, you get a receipt and a time when it is expected to arrive if known.
So why would this be different on eBay? Beats me, but if you think that I am creating unrest among buyers, you're wrong. Your own practices do that all by themselves thank you very much. I am just pointing out that there are some sellers who do care about their customers, who take customer service very seriously, and treat bidders in the same manner they would like to be treated. I consider my competition for a buyer's business is not on eBay anyway. If someone wants something, a single mouseclick can put them on another auction...or another site altogether. I consider my prime competitor to be Amazon, not some little eBay seller.
And your attempts to justify second rate service hoist you on your own petard the more you try.
posted on February 12, 2002 08:49:24 PM
Amazing to see that people still can't read contextually. I said a minute and half per bidder, not per hundreds.
Clue phone: if you tell them you are shipping something, you can provide an estimated time of arrival at the same time. If you already anticipated their possible response don't blame them if you can't put it in an email and then whine that it creates more work. Get the tiny violins out.
As to blaming the bidder for why you won't provide service: No dear friend, you do it all by yourself.
If you don't charge enough, that's not the bidder's fault, it's yours. No one told you to sell bottom dollar.
posted on February 12, 2002 09:05:37 PM
"If I sent out 300 item-shipped emails per week, I would get 200 "so when do you think it will get here?" responses."
Where do you get this notion? I send a shipment notification message for every package I ship (either immediately before or after shipping) and I have never received an inquiry as to when the package is due to arrive. At most, I just receive a "thank you" email which requires no response. The buyers I've dealt with know if they're getting Priority or Media shipping, or Surface or Air shipping, and they seem pretty knowledgable as to how long the shipping should take.
posted on February 12, 2002 09:17:51 PMmballai, you take your opinion as fact. What you suggest is one business model, not the only model or necessarily the most successful one. Customers want a good product at a good price.
One top-rated eBay seller here put it nicely. "While others are off writing 'your payment was received' emails, we are busy packing and shipping your order."
If you've found a niche selling to the rich and utterly foolish, more power to you. Frankly, I'm suspicious of sellers who come here bragging about superior customer service, especially when they display an arrogant and vicious attitude such as yours.
posted on February 12, 2002 09:28:18 PM
You call wasting precious time good business. Living in la la land must be bliss. No worry watching your money drain away.
I also buy on ebay and it annoys me to no end when sellers email me other than to give me a total if necessary. You call it professionalism, then I guess major companies aren't professional either. I have waited patiently up to six months several times from major companies for one item; on ebay I have waited 3-6 weeks, and left the sellers positive feedback.
Don't think your way is the only way. You are seriously kidding yourself. If I was so unteachable, why would I test out continously every aspect of my business? If you've been doing things the same way for years, how would you know if there is a better way or not?
posted on February 12, 2002 09:31:56 PM
"I can only imagine what a seller's packing must be like if basic communication is too much of their time."
Again, another ignorant comment. I can provide feedback from my buyers saying how awesome my packaging is. My packaging is far superior to what major companies provide. Packaging like that flatters buyers, and keeps them coming back.
"it's almost a given that you won't be able to handle anything where something goes wrong."
Keep those ignorant comments coming. Recently, I realized I shipped the wrong item to a buyer before they received it. I emailed the buyer immediately and gave them instructions upon receiving the item. It didn't cost them a thing to send it back, never had to email me, and they had the correct item only a couple days later.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Feb 12, 2002 09:36 PM ]
posted on February 12, 2002 09:50:39 PM
"When you buy something in a store, they give you a receipt and not always but often, they say thank you. If you order something in a store, you get a receipt and a time when it is expected to arrive if known.
So why would this be different on eBay?"
What's differnet on ebay. I send them an eoa email and say thanks. However, K-Mart has a cashierless checkout where the customer does the entire transaction without any person saying thanks. It is 2002 and things are changing. I'm sure you want to go back to the good ol' days, but the world is passing you by.
posted on February 12, 2002 09:57:26 PM
I have to come in on the COMMON COURTESY side of this one!
Every item I sell gets the big three: EOA + PMT RECEIVED + ITEM SHIPPED.
NOBODY has ever started an email barrage after receiving these emails!
MANY BUYERS have expressed their DELIGHT in the care & consideration I've shown them!
PLUS: packaging is EVERYTHING!
Although I sell COW-FLOP PAPERWEIGHTS emblazoned with the motto KENNEDY'S AVON & OFFICE SUPPLIES - NYC", I still package em up real purty & folks just don't seem to realize they be getting a load of crap!
posted on February 13, 2002 04:08:47 AM
tomwiii: Thank You!
quickdraw:
Let's call good service ignorant and wasteful and cite companies who are going bankrupt for a business model. You bet.
My notes about packaging and errors are precisely on target. My experience is that those who cut corners in one area, will do so in other areas and it comes back to haunt the business. They may or may not do so in some specific area, but I have enough examples that this coincides.
And if you don't do it now, great.
BTW, some of my items sell for as little as one dollar. I don't cater to the rich and I don't live in la la land. And I do make money. My average on eBay was about 400-500% markup. With a mix of marketplaces, it's about 700-800% I don't have to shortchange any of my customers or waste precious time. My new inventory passes into profitability within 24-48 hours of listing.
posted on February 13, 2002 05:58:58 AM
I am also on the side of courtesy and emphasize this in my sales. BUT - I do this for enjoyment, am NOT paying a mortgage with it, and sell low volume. Comparing hi-vol to low-vol sales methods is comparing apples & oranges. My comments are in regard to hi-vol sellers & ave cost items (not $10,000 museum items).
however......be that as it may.....
I still insist there is a middle ground here.
Quickdraw streamlines his cust svc to the # of people he can/can't hire, hours he can/can't work, in order to offer an appealing price. His focus is excellent packaging & fast shipping. Also, as soon as he realized a shipping mistake, he jumped right on it, absorbing the extra shipping $$. (I assumed you were a "he", sorry). I have no doubt he got +FB for that.
Here's the middle ground...
Seller's TOS could say,
"Wait for me to contact you first, all the info you need s/b included in message. I don't work weekends so if this auction ends at that time, my e-mail will be a bit delayed. Please keep this in mind when bidding."
This would take zero time to do because your TOS are cut/pasted into all auctions. No need for a long explanation - keep it simple.
There is nothing offensive in that, and the buyer can then decide whether or not to bid. I have seen this stated in many auctions. Buyer will know to lay back & wait for contact.
Seller might also add:
"if you need faster shipping, e-mail me before you bid." (Seller has a chance to turn down bidder)
---or---
"I cannot do rush orders at this time, please do not ask."
I have seen this in ads and there is no reason to be offended.
I shop Ebay to save $$. Consider gas stations that offer full-serve and self-serve. I prefer full service with all the trimmings, but my budget prefers self serve. Airlines offer 1st Class & Coach- one serves champagne and one doesn't.
in conclusion...
sellers' compromise: Briefly state special do's & don'ts in TOS----- (Bettylou does this very nicely in TOS and About Me page).
buyers'compromise: Give up a little champagne for lower price, be patient.
posted on February 13, 2002 06:05:44 AM
I am a firm believer that with online auctions that the seller should contact the winning bidder. I personally do not send out "receipt of payment" emails and I use the automated "shipment of item" email in post management. It takes a few minutes in express post management to email all the buyers. I use the shipment of item as my receipt of payment email..afterall all..it says right in the email "thanks for your payment, your item has been shipped"
MEOW
posted on February 13, 2002 07:08:17 AM
My e-mails are condensed in 2:
1. EOA - includes shipping/insurance info., my addy for MO's, and a thank you.
2. Pay rec'd - includes thanks for payment, shipped Priority, tracking #.
No one's ever asked when item will arrive. Those 2 e-mails seems to cover everything and circumvent questions.
No one's ever tried to carry on an e-mail friendship.
Is there software that would do these 2 e-mails by filling in the blanks if I were selling 100's or 1000's per week? Anybody?
Would it let me customize the "master" doc to sound friendly, or do they only come with standard replies?
Did someone say this can be done through Outlook Express?
posted on February 13, 2002 07:25:09 AM
I am pretty sure that there is customizable automated email software--it's probably a bit pricey. I currently use a homemade Access database that provides semi- automation for my EOA and an email link to start an email to the bidder. Coupled with softkey lite, I can send an email in about 15 seconds.
There's no reason why someone can't customize Access further to make this a one or two mouseclick process. It's fairly simple macro/VBA programming.
posted on February 13, 2002 09:30:30 AM> Did someone say this can be done through Outlook Express?
Through Outlook 97/98/2000, YES. Outlook Express? No.
Is there software that would do these 2 e-mails by filling in the blanks if I were selling 100's or 1000's per week? Anybody?
Like mballai said, you could customize your letters using Access and some programming, but you would have to get the data into the database before you could do anything useful with it. There are many auction management software like AuctionTrakker and ShootingStar that will push the auction data into the Access database for you.
Would it let me customize the "master" doc to sound friendly, or do they only come with standard replies?
I love AuctionTrakker. It sends my Confirmation e-mails in Bulk. Two clicks and 100 e-mails are out the door. All you do is customize an "e-mail template" with the variables you want like bidderid, item number, auction title, end bid, s&h, total, etc. Then as the program sends the confirmation e-mail out to each winning bidder, the variables are pulled from the database and your customized e-mail is automatically sent out. Same concept with "Payment Received" and "Item Shipped".
posted on February 13, 2002 09:34:04 AM
If you know database programming and can send form emails in just seconds, that's great. Not everyone has that finesse. For most sellers it boils down to time management.
I will tell you my take on this. I work in a retail store. We emphasize customer service. In truth, our CS is not great, it's barely adequate, but our competitors (the superstores) offer none. We do get customers who prefer hand-holding to low prices, but they are a minority. Our competitors outsell us five to one.
That means that for every customer who comes into our store looking for good service, five others are willing to forgo service for lower prices. Those people know what they want, are willing to wait a little longer in the checkout line, to get the best price.
Bottom line, most customers are looking for a good deal. Heck, even my Dad shops at our competitor's store.
If you can automate your service and provide those extras with no time management hassles, no one will argue that is a bad thing. But don't expect others to follow your model, and don't suggest that anyone who doesn't program their own Access database is driving buyers away from eBay. There is no "one size fits all" business plan for selling on eBay.
posted on February 13, 2002 11:06:29 AM
Automation has nothing to do with customer service, but the fact that anyone, including non-programmer types, can quickly communicate with their customers by automation puts all the reasons for not doing it into the excuse trashcan.
Good customer service still matters. The biggest and most successful B&M store, with bottom dollar pricing, still has people who greet you when you walk in. Some things don't show up on an account ledger, but I have to tell you that's probably one reason why they are on top, and their founder's original workplace is Chapter 11.
posted on February 13, 2002 02:43:24 PM
I guess I could charge an extra .40¢ for my own delivery confirmation service. It'll be another source of revenue. Thanks mballai for giving me a great idea.
Here's what I will say in my eoa email: "Optional, .40¢ delivery notice. I will contact you when item is shipped and when you can expect item."
Everyone will want to pay me and it is pure profit.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Feb 13, 2002 02:47 PM ]
