posted on August 20, 2000 09:21:27 PM new
Legally, the sale is not completed until the seller agrees to the price, so is totally within bounds to cancel bids and end the auction early. An auction is like a negotiation on price, and most sellers just accept the final offer, some don't. Your bid was probably rejected for being ridiculously low, although blame is not the issue. If a seller pays $10 for something and the final bid is $1, who really is cheating who?
posted on August 20, 2000 10:01:47 PM new
quickdraw29,
You can talk about "legal" issues all you want, but the RULES of the auction are that any bid that meets or exceeds the seller's opening price (or reserve, when there is one)is a contract for the buyer to pay for the item AND for the seller to sell at the final bid price.
A bid CANNOT be "rejected for being ridiculously low" if the seller doesn't have a RESERVE on the item. He can only back out from selling if the item gets lost/stolen or damaged.
You said, "If a seller pays $10 for something and the final bid is $1, who really is cheating who?"
A seller who lists a $10.00-cost item with a $1.00 opening bid and NO RESERVE is GAMBLING that he will come out ahead in the end, and if the final auction bid is only $1.00, then he LOSES. It's certainly not the buyer's fault the seller is losing money, nor that the seller didn't OPEN THE BIDDING above $10.00.
posted on August 20, 2000 11:10:41 PM new
With listing fees of $0.00 you have to expect this kind of behavior out of some people. There's nothing to loose. If it isn't selling for a high enough price, cancel and relist.
I personally don't know why people don't list items for a fair profit to begin with. That way you don't have to tick off your customers by canceling bids and auctions.
posted on August 21, 2000 12:10:03 AM new
Absolutely agree with Granee on this one (& as usual LOL). Reserves are for a seller to protect their investment. If he refuses to sell for less than $x he has the option to either open OR set a reserve at that price. I certainly wouldn't want to waste time bidding on a sellers ad, perhaps passing on another then later being canceled on the first. Without a competing bidder he wouldn't even know what my max might have been. Lack of a competing bidder is not unusual, therefore more important to protect your investment. It should be common sense to employ methods to attract bidders rather than alienate them.
I have won an item at the opening of $1.00, all other sellers were opening the same item from $9-$12. I expected the seller to try and back out but she said "I took the risk of opening low to attract multi bids & it didn't work this time. It's not your fault, just send me the $1.00 plus shipping. It's a matter of integrity, I gambled, I lost, I accept responsibility for that." She certainly won a repeat customer for her professionalism unlike the seller the original poster discussed. I would never bid on his ads again under any circumstance. I'd invite him here so I could name him for everyone else to avoid. If I were aware this practice was used by many sellers then I too would forget that site thus hurting all of the sellers there.
posted on August 22, 2000 06:22:46 AM new
zzyzx000
This individual was deleted from the membership of the Seller Zone. You can see why by his sarcastic, poor attitude, holly than thou comments. There is no "moderator" in this club, only co-founders. One of which gave zzyzx000 plenty of opportunity to rectify or change such a dismal attitude, to no avail. He insulted peoples intelligence levels, etc. He simply is not a person you would enjoy dealing with in any form. Hence he was justly removed from that club.
tegan
Giving a response to your complaint "I will never bid on Yahoo again" is rather difficult, as all of the facts are not known. Often a one sided explanation, especially in involving transactions, leaves many important factors out. Or is viewed only from one persons perspective. For instance: 1) What is your feefback rating? 2) You added in a later post you "won" the auction, not in the beginning? 3) Was the bid actually canceled before you were the winner? If so, there is nothing wrong with that. 4) What is the sellers feedback file like?
As far as not bidding on Yahoo! anymore because of this incident, whatever it involved. Doesn't seem to be the thing you, or anyone, should do. If you leave a site because you are upset over one transaction, you soon will not fine anyplace to bid on auctions. Such a place where nothing goes wrong, does not exist.
Why blame Yahoo! because you had a problem with this one seller? If this person is doing something you don't like you have options to rate the person, or contact Yahoo!'s customer care about the individual. Contrary to some comments here, you have just a good a chance at doing something about this, as you do on any other auction site. There are bad sellers on ALL auction sites, and buyers for that matter. I have seen buyers post in a sellers file "The worst seller ever!". When this person had literally hundreds of positives, and less than 1% negatives? This buyer, of course, made an extremely exagerated comment.
Deal with each seller and transaction as it pertains to itsef, IMO. Making blanket comments about "I will never bid on Yahoo again", just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. If you have a problem with a person, deal with the person as an individual. Taking your frustrations out on all of the sellers on Yahoo! is rather childish. Like a pouting child.
I totally agree with all of your comments. If this seller did such a thing, this person is disregarding set rules. Yahoo! has a TOS policy that forbids such actions. If you "gamble" as you put it, you have to pay the consequences when you lose on that gamble.
When I listed my first auction on Yahoo! I put up an item with a low opening price, (that was the trend then), and a buy price acceptable to me for the item. However I didn't realize, being new, that it could sell below the buy price and anywhere from the opening price up to that buy price. I didn't post a reserve because I didn't realize it was needed when listing with a buy price auction.
This was a nice item, (and it was worth $30.00). The high bid was far less than a third of that value. What did I do? I sold it for the high bid. It was MY mistake, and my credibility as a seller was worth far more than the monetary loss. This winner has been a repeat cutomer of mine as a result. She knows she got a real good buy, but at the same time knows I am a trustworthy person to deal with. I will honor my commitments regardless of personal cost.
posted on August 22, 2000 05:20:12 PM new
"I will never bid on Yahoo again" is a statement of fact. My opinion of the auction site is based on my experience and that of those around me.
I started the thread with such an inflamitory statement to get the attention of those of you who are selling at this site. You really need to do something about this because this is far more common than you think. Since I have posted this complaint we have heard from people who have had the same thing happen to them and people who have done the same thing to others.. There are many people getting shafted the same way.
No I have not ever had this happen on any of the other auction sites I use.
Mint4you
Pouting ,no. I have too much too do to waste time pouting or namecalling, but I really thought you people who use Yahoo on a regular basis might like to be kept informed. The count is now 11 people that I know personnally that have had this happen to them. Not faceless posters on some list but real everyday people (friends and family)in my town. Some of them tried Yahoo at my suggestion because I have seen some good buys out there.
Many of you use Yahoo because (and I have read this in other posts) you are unhappy
with ebay but my saying the same thing has seemed to upset some of you.
If I'm driving around during a heavy rain and the streets are flooding I'm going to remember that intersection where I got stuck
before and seeing that at least 11 cars are stuck there today I probably will take an alternate route. I'm just taken an alternate route.
My sister told me when it happened that I should have heeded the old adage "You get what you pay for"
posted on August 22, 2000 07:21:29 PM new
"You really need to do something about this because this is far more common than you think."
"You"? How are we supposed to do something for you? Why don't you do something to help with this problem yourself? Complain to Yahoo! through the options you have. Again, you are blaming other sellers on the site? There are dishonorable sellers, AND bidders on all sites, everywhere. If you leave each one, blaming every seller on each site, for the acts of a few. You may as well give up on bidding on any site.
You found eleven people who are unhappy, so? There are thousands of sellers on Yahoo! auctions. Geez, because there are thieves in this world, does that mean everyone is a thief? Of course not. There are crooked lawyers, are they all? Of course not. There are butcher doctors, are they all? Of course not. What a person does to, or for you, does not make anyone else associated with the same activity, the same type of person. You really need to look at your own perspective on life, and how you look at people. I'm sure glad I do not have such a pessimistic outlook at others, because of my encounter with one person.
posted on August 22, 2000 08:12:18 PM new
I'll have to read the seller agreement to understand the exact rules pertaining to this, but what can a seller do if they described the item wrong by mistake; got damaged before the auction end; or change of mind? Those are legitimate reasons for canceling auctions early.
If you're right about the "seller should have a reserve" instead of "gambling with a low start bid with no reserve, what harm is it to the buyer if the buyer doesn't reach the reserve vs a no reserve and the seller cancels the bid for not making it to a certain price? It's the same result, buyer doesn't win, and buyer had no chance of winning. Until you can explain that wih intelligence instead of emotionally whining, I will never agree with you.
Buyers have for years been cheating sellers, they want more for less. That's cheating! How come when the table is turned it becomes a national emergency?
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
posted on August 22, 2000 08:42:00 PM new
mint4you
I never once said that I blamed All the sellers on Yahoo.
I was just relaying my experience and the experience of others around me.
"My experience" and "MY decision" nothing more.
I said nothing about the other sellers.
It always amazed me how personnaly some people can take a statement when it is not even about them.
I did what I could do. I complained to Yahoo, I put a comment on both the auction that he
canceled my bid on and the one where he relisted the item. There is not a lot more I can do.
Since I only know about 20 people that bid online and 11 of them have had bids canceled on Yahoo I thought that was really significant.
Sorry if it did not meet with your approval.
I was just giving the sellers and buyers on Yahoo a heads up.
Well that is about all I have to say on the subject. I think I will go in my studio and pout now.
posted on August 22, 2000 10:22:23 PM new
quickdraw29,
You said, "what harm is it to the buyer if the buyer doesn't reach the reserve vs a no reserve and the seller cancels the bid for not making it to a certain price? It's the same result, buyer doesn't win, and buyer had no chance of winning. Until you can explain that wih intelligence instead of emotionally whining, I will never agree with you."
"Emotionally whining"---excuse me?????? The DIFFERENCE between the two situations above is that when the seller places a reserve the buyer doesn't meet, the buyer HAS NO EXPECTATIONS of receiving the item for his bid price. When there IS no reserve, the buyer has every RIGHT to EXPECT he will receive the item for his bid price. PERIOD. It's that simple.
tegan,
You said, "It always amazed me how personnaly some people can take a statement when it is not even about them."
Give me a break!!!
How do you EXPECT us to take it??? You make blanket accusations that Yahoo sellers are reneging on buyers' low bids and depriving their buyers of bargain purchases, because supposedly almost everyone in your town has had the same thing happen when they bid on Yahoo Auctions.
You also said, "You really need to do something about this because this is far more common than you think."
Since you realize your complaints are "not even about (us)", how on earth do you expect us to do anything about it??? We don't know WHICH AUCTIONS are involved, we don't know WHICH SELLERS are involved, we don't know WHICH BUYERS are involved...so just exactly WHAT do you think we can do???
Only the buyer and the seller in a Yahoo auction can leave feedback for the other one or complain to Yahoo about the other's dealings in their transaction. Even if we DID know which 11 auctions you're talking about, do you think Yahoo is going to listen to OUR complaints about the sellers involved???
OF COURSE NOT. A judge would call such meddling "heresay", with justification. It's the responsibility of each auction buyer to report offending activity by his OWN seller, not the responsibility of "meddling" outsiders.
Then you said, "Sorry if it did not meet with your approval. I was just giving the sellers and buyers on Yahoo a heads up." Only one person here has been insulting to you, and all the rest have bent over backwards apologizing to you for something that SOMEONE ELSE did. I certainly don't know what you expect us to do with "a heads up," nor do I understand your intentions in making your "inflamatory statement" (as you so correctly called it), except to see how much commotion you could stir.
By the way, how did you "put a comment on...the one (auction) where he relisted the item"? You can only leave feedback if you're high bidder on an auction, and you were only high bidder the FIRST time he listed it, not the SECOND TIME, weren't you??????
posted on August 23, 2000 12:04:49 AM new
Granee beat me to the punch again
"when the seller places a reserve the buyer doesn't meet, the buyer HAS NO EXPECTATIONS of receiving the item for his bid price. When there IS no reserve, the buyer has every RIGHT to EXPECT he will receive the item for his bid price. PERIOD. It's that simple."
Granee
I believe Tegan means she clicked TOS violation on the Neighborhood Watch card & entered her comments there. Unfortunately NW comments are ONLY visible to the user who enters them & Yahoo staff. NW comments are private to all other users INCLUDING the seller.
posted on August 23, 2000 12:31:31 AM new
granee
My last post was aimed at the one person who's name was before the text of it.
You said:
" Only one person here has been insulting to you, and all the rest have bent over
backwards apologizing to you for something that SOMEONE ELSE did."
And I specifically addressed that person with my comments. And I do appreciate those who understood the anger I had for this kind of dishonest business practices.
You said:
"You make blanket accusations that Yahoo sellers are reneging on buyers' low bids and depriving their buyers of bargain purchases, because supposedly almost everyone in your town has had the same thing happen when they bid on Yahoo Auctions. "
I did not say all Yahoo sellers or most Yahoo sellers or even a lot of Yahoo sellers were doing this. I live in a town of 15,000 and did not say or imply in the least that it was everyone in my town.I said 11 of the 20 or so that I do know who bid on line.That's 14,989 short if my math serves me. As far as I'm concerned once is way too much.
You said:
"You can only leave feedback if you're high bidder on an auction, and you were only high bidder the FIRST time he listed it, not the SECOND TIME, weren't you?????? "
I'm not talking about feedback ,I never said a thing about feedback, I said I left a comment.I am talking about the little question dealy at the bottom of the Yahoo auctions. Since I have only won this one auction I don't know how to go about leaving feedback on Yahoo. Since he canceled my bid on the first auction I am not sure I am entitled to leave feedback even though I won.
Okay, now let me try once more.
I don't think all or even most of the sellers on Yahoo are crooks. I'm sure they are just as nice as the ones I have dealt with on ebay and on amamzon and the others I have purchased from.
I didn't blame all of Yahoo.I blame this one seller and from what I have seen in the news about ebay lately it only takes a few bad apples to turn away a lot of people.
As I said in my post above:
"I never once said that I blamed All the sellers on Yahoo. I was just relaying my experience and the experience of others around me."My experience" and "MY decision" nothing more.I said nothing about the other sellers. "
I do apoligize if anyone took offense at my complaint.
I thought this board was for the frank discussion of business on Yahoo and that was what I was trying to do.
I really apreciate all the information and tips I have been given about this.I have not heard back from Yahoo and at this point but the item was sold to someone else because it would be a cold day in you know where before I would bid on his stuff again.
I agree that once is too often for this to happen, but there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING we here on this thread can do about it. ONLY the buyers who are treated like this are in the position to get the guilty sellers punished or banished from Yahoo Auction.
If you'll go back and read this thread again, you'll see that you can STILL leave feedback for the seller, if he didn't cancel your bid before the auction ended. On your "Yahoo! My Auctions" page, click on "Won", click "Rate Seller" (or put the auction numbers in the "By Item Number" box on Yahoo Auction search page to go to the listing page), and leave feedback for him. He deserves a scathing review.
posted on August 23, 2000 06:59:34 AM new
"I am not a happy camper and probably won't ever bid again if that is how they do business."
The key word here that got me to respond in your original post is "they". Not "he", "this seller", or any comment as to it being an individual, or a singular statement. You did make a blanket statemnet when you word your sentence as in a plural form.
I have not been picking on you. As to the others apologizing to you? Apologizing for what? We were not involved in your transaction. Yahoo! is not, by the way, a small town. It has more sellers alone than the population of the town you live in. So that comparison isn't a sound one.
Lets look at the other side of the coin. I, as a seller, having a bad transaction with one buyer, (I wish it were only one), now decide I will not sell on Yahoo! any further. I would have stopped selling on the fourth sale. And I would have missed dealing with the vast majority of honest, reputable, honorable, nice buyers on Yahoo!. On average there is about 4% to 6% failed transactions by buyers and/or sellers. Look at any reliable seller, with 100s of positives, if you see this perecentage, (4% - 6%), in negatives. This is still a very good seller, same goes for a buyer. No one, including you and your friends, can avoid this percentage of dishonest persons indefinitely.
You bid on ONE auction on Yahoo! by your first post. If we go by that, as a percentage of bad transactions you had. It was 100% bad. I guess if you were happy, all sellers, (as in "they", would have gotten credit? You can say whatever AW allows. I just would appreciate, with all of the other honest sellers I'm sure, that you not relate your bad experiances on AW as "they" when making your complaints about ONE seller on Yahoo! I personally, would greatly appreciate that.
I hope you have better auction experiances in the future, and your friends also. All that we all want, is to have pleasent dealings with each other. Lets not let the bad sellers, and buyers, turn us against all the others who do not fit in this category.
If I seemed insulting, (if I am the one you are speaking of), I apologize for that. I, however, found the statements related to all sellers as insulting. And therefore, I had to repond.
posted on August 23, 2000 10:06:40 AM new
granee, you said-
"When there IS no reserve, the buyer has every RIGHT to EXPECT he will receive the item for his bid price. PERIOD. It's that simple."
Ok, so if the buyer is outbid, their "Right" has been violated, because afterall, he did "expect to receive the item at his bid price?" I think what you meant is the buyer had a chance to win, and hoped to do so. You can't "Expect" to win based on chances and hopes, and no will give you that "right" unless you earn it by being high bidder.
The seller has rights too, so let's not ignore the seller in this equation. This isn't a one-sided case.
There's other options, legal and illegal as an alternative to voiding bids and no one will be the wiser. I guess canceling bids outright is the best option as it doesn't waste anymore time for the buyer or seller.
You also have to keep in mind, if the seller doesn't like your feedback, they have every right to cancel your bid. If Yahoo was so against canceling bids they wouldn't allow it under any circumstance.
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Aug 23, 2000 11:11 AM ]
posted on August 24, 2000 05:53:39 AM new
quickdraw29,
I was referring to the auction's HIGH BIDDER in my statement, "When there IS no reserve, the buyer has every RIGHT to EXPECT he will receive the item for his bid price." I think everyone else here understood it to mean the HIGH bidder, except you.
As for a seller arbitrarily cancelling someone's bid because he doesn't like their feedback or for reasons OTHER THAN the sale item having become lost or damaged, that's not the situation here. This seller TOLD HER he cancelled her bid because it wasn't enough money for him, and he was WRONG in doing so. In that respect it IS a one-sided case.
If the seller needed X dollars for his item, he should have either started the bidding at X dollars OR have placed a reserve of X dollars on the auction. That would have let prospective bidders KNOW they either had to pay X dollars for it OR could bid with the possibility of not reaching the reserve and winning the item.
Why is that so hard for you to understand????????????????
posted on August 24, 2000 09:17:09 PM new
I'm sticking with legal guidelines here with disregard to what Yahoo rules stipulate. If the buyers bid sucks, I reserve the right to cancel it. My TOS says ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. I use a reserve when I know the reserve may be met. If demand is lower on an item a reserve only scares away bidders. Would it really matter if some Yahoo buyer(who admitted to being a cheat) leaves? I wish they'd all leave.
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
posted on August 24, 2000 09:58:23 PM new
quickdraw29,
You have to be a troll on here to stir up trouble....or perhaps YOU'RE one of the dishonest sellers we've been discussing here??????!!!
You know good and well that everything you're saying is ethically wrong, and you're either blowing smoke OR you have DOZENS of negs for cancelling "low winning bids" on whatever auction you're using to sell your merchandise.
Since the name "quickdraw29" isn't valid on ebay or Amazon, and it's never been used by its owner on Yahoo, we obviously can't look at your current or past auction history, or at any feedback you've accumulated as a seller or as a buyer.
That leaves us guessing whether you're just a troublemaker looking for kicks on these threads, or you're one of the low-life bums giving ALL Yahoo sellers a bad name by cancelling bids on your no-reserve auctions that aren't "high" enough ("the buyers bid sucks", I believe you phrased it).
posted on August 28, 2000 09:23:14 PM new
Granee, nice trash campaign! Isn't that unethical though to disgrace another seller with 600 feedbacks, especially since you based it all on ass-u-mptions? Apparantely your ethics do not even match up with what the law states concerning this issue, so don't even consider your opinion supreme for one second!
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
now.
, would have gotten credit? You can say whatever AW allows. I just would appreciate, with all of the other honest sellers I'm sure, that you not relate your bad experiances on AW as "they" when making your complaints about ONE seller on Yahoo! I personally, would greatly appreciate that.