posted on February 19, 2002 09:44:31 PM new
I have not weighed in on this but I can't resist.
Where do these weirdos come from? The two who are complaining about bettylou must have graduated at the top of their class for the incredibly stupid.
Do you two live in a dream world? Do you think funds will magically appear in your account? Did you think this lady would just say "Oh Well! These poor people don't have the sense to keep their finances straight or they are just plain crooks. In that cas I'll feel sorry for them and let them have the merchandise for free and I'll be happy to do it."?
Wake up!!! Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law. I don't care if this lady had 1 million negs. The responsibility was yours to check the sellers feedback prior to bidding on the items. If you were unhappy with her feedback or just didn't check it you shouldn't have bid. But you did!! Therefore the responsibility to pay for the items rests squarely on your shoulders.
I do not care if you are out of work!
I do not care if you are disabled!
I do not care if you are living out of a cardboard box or a shopping cart!
There is no excuse for writing bad checks. I do believe both of you intentionally wrote bad checks. If you have such a bad handle on your finances or your account is so low that you have no idea if there is enough money to cover the checks you've written - then stop writing checks.
Both of you are at fault so stop bitching and trying to cloud the issue.
posted on February 19, 2002 09:47:16 PM new
With Bettylou's suggestion that I had mischaracterized her feedback, I took another look at it. Ignoring the obvious feedback bombing by aweebitowhimsy (which is deplorable, IMHO), I still think that many of them mention slow shipping. What is also noticeable though, is how many mentioned how rude the seller was. If my feedback looked like this, I'd be taking a good, hard look at my practices. Even if the seller does not feel she was rude to all those buyers, they did. All those comments can't be helping your bids.
Yeah, buyers (and sellers) do dumb things. Sometimes they don't read your terms. And you have the right to tell 'em in your terms that you are not going to hold their hands through the sale, but a certain amount are still going to expect an e-mail when you ship or if they think the package is late. And you can fire off a nasty diatribe if you want, or you can sit down when you are not in a crappy mood and compose some standard e-mails to deal with many of these recurring problems. I'd rather blow off a little steam when something happens that like this that bugs me, wait till I've calmed down, and then deal with it as calmly as possible.
Bettylou, I almost posted some of your feedback but then thought better of it. I know I wouldn't want that kind of stuff posted about me on a board.
I feel like I have a pretty good handle on reading feedback. People leave unreasonable feedback for a number of dumb reasons. My favorite (and Bettylou has at least 12 of these) is where people leave you a neutral or negative with a positive comment - they just checked the wrong box! And it's usually pretty easy to see a lone wacko in a feedback profile. But when the same comments keep cropping up about rudeness, or slow shipping, or whatever - then it raises a red flag to me that I should be prepared to have that problem come up should I choose to deal with that person.
Betty: I wonder if part of the problem is that you have part of your TOS on your ME page. The Q&A where you explain your policies is probably not read by some bidders...it's probably not helping the situation. While you do make it clear that you don't e-mail buyers once their item is shipped, if they aren't reading that part in your TOS then it's like it wasn't there to them. I dunno. But I have to get back to my auctions...and get some work done! Enough from me.
posted on February 19, 2002 11:42:41 PM new
Oh for God's sake - I'm going to say this ONE more time. I bid on the jewelry. MY FAULT. The check came back NSF - MY FAULT. We had no money because hubby lost job. Couldn't control that, but I was responsible for debts. Didn't notify her that check was coming back because I wasn't sure if it would be HER check or others that would come back. There was a lag time between when checks went through, I deposited money and checks went through again. Sometimes they go through my account twice - but I do not know which ones because it depends on which bank is depositing the checks. I also figured that it would be a while before her check went through twice (if it did), since she was out of state. I was hoping to have the money to cover everything in there before it went through again. I was not able to and that was MY FAULT. You are correct Mr. Retail Guy - the $14.00 did get swallowed up in NSF fees. And once again, I will say this - I told her that I would send her items to her complete WITH ALL FEES THAT SHE HAD ACCUMULATED. Tell me retail guy - just exactly what sucks about that???
THE WHOLE ENTIRE POINT TO THIS POST IS THIS::::: Everyone jumped on the first person that had an NSF check to bettylou. Everyone said that she was rude to the buyer BECAUSE of the NSF. I was simply showing to you people that, no matter WHAT the circumstances are, she's rude. I gave her no reason to be "unique" to me when I asked if there were any other options besides 1st class shipping. I was asking a question. Geez, what is so hard to understand about that? All I was trying to point out was that the information that she gave to you about me was a LIE. Please forgive me for being angry that she took a desperate situation in my life and blew it out of proportion, gloated over it and laughed when she got the check cashed. I do not like being called a liar just because my crystal ball failed to tell me that we were going to be on the brink of losing everything we owned before I placed that bid. I was not the one lying here. I was the one that wrote a check that went south when the rest of my bank account did and I was the one that was so apologetic that it was pitiful. I was the one that TRIED DAMN HARD to be nice to her in spite of all that she said, because as I've said at least 20 times now - my check came back and it was MY FAULT. I tried very hard to solve the problem. I apologized, I knew that since there was no job; there was no money and I tried to send the items back and reimburse her for the fees. I didn't try to keep the merchandise and ignore her. I only did that after she accused me of lying about my family's situation and hurting my reputation as a buyer and a seller in the process. The feedback was done immediately AFTER she received my email about sending her the items back and BEFORE she emailed me to tell me no - I couldn't do that. I never said that I didn't owe her the money. I was only saying that she had no right to put lies ANYWHERE about me when I was trying to work the issue out. The only thing that I got upset about was that she could get on eBay and on this board and say what the hell ever she wants to - yet I evidently don't have the right to defend myself because our lives fell apart? Geez Louise! Please forgive me for ever bothering to contact you to let you know that there are others out there that have been given an extremely hard time by this woman. Do you people not understand that I am not denying that I owed her for the dang items? I was simply trying to bring to light that she goes out of her way to make it hard for people to make things right. When I read her return policy after receiving the items, it said point blank that you could return an item - no problem. The only way it would be refused was if someone made a habit out of returning items. Someone please tell me why I couldn't have returned the items and reimbursed her for her fees? She knew that all hell had broken loose in our lives and that I didn't have the money to send to her.
All I've got to say is that in two years on eBay, never has one of my payments been returned. Never - not one time - with the exception of this one. I do not bid if I can't pay. At the time that I bid on her items, I could pay. Things deteriorated. There were no ulterior motives. If you don't believe it - fine. She has been paid (albeit the hard way) - problem solved. We never have to see or hear from each other again. Problem solved.
I wasn't trying to diminish the fact that my check came back. I think I admitted that until I sounded like a broken record. The point was that she lied about things and contrary to what everyone else wants to make of it - I had the right to defend myself. Thank you kasue, for being the only one that could read through my "diatribe" and see that.
Sorry my words were so difficult to read through and I'm really sorry that all but a few of you totally missed the point. I know the NSF was MY FAULT. No one is arguing that. It does not give anyone the right to tell lies about me, though. That, retail guy, is what sucks.
posted on February 19, 2002 11:49:50 PM new
Oh capolady, at this point, I really don't care what you think. I know that I didn't write a bad check intentionally. I don't care whether you believe it or not. Please, get back to your merry little lives and forget that I ever said a word. But, let me ask you this: What is it about me saying it was MY FAULT don't you understand? It still does NOT give her the right to LIE. Period. Enough said.
I do thank the couple of people that could see part of what I was saying. Please don't think this post is directed at you.
posted on February 19, 2002 11:57:11 PM new
Oh, here's what another person had to say about bettylou and her "unique" way of handling things. This is a direct quote. I will forward the email to anyone who wants to see it.
"You are certainly not intruding. This woman is the cow from hell. I sent the old hag payment which she denies receiving. When i very politely enquired as to the whereabouts of my goods she sent me a most vitriolic e.mail.
this filthy old hag must be stopped."
posted on February 20, 2002 12:26:41 AM new
Now, wasn't there 2 checks involved in this transaction?
Why didn't you just stop posting to this thread and leave well enough along. Now you come in here and start this all over again. It' done, you've paid now drop it.
What you are telling us is heresey. Sending emails that were sent to you and then posted in here, how can we believe them. Come on, this has been going on to long. If you are in such dire straits you need to figure out how to make some money so that you and your family can move on from this and start living again. The only reputation you have to defend is yours and if you would quite posting, like you said you were going to do and move on it would have gone by the wayside.
Bettylou has a strong policy when it comes to business and that is her business, if you don't like her terms don't bid on the auctions. Now I had a buyer that emailed me their terms of buying and if you think bettylous are strong you should have seen this one. It would make you hair stand on end. I just did what I normally do and moved on and that is what you should do. Forget it, let this thread slip into the next page. That would be the best for all of us.
posted on February 20, 2002 01:08:47 AM new
No Libra, it wasn't me that had two checks involved. By the way, I did let it go until I found that I was one of the people that became a topic of conversation on this thread. I did not bring the topic up and today is the first day that I've posted on this subject. I had let it all go until I found lies about me on this thread. You must have me confused with someone else. Please don't tell me to go away when I didn't start the thread and this is the first day that I've ever posted on here.
Oh, I also told you that I would forward that email to you if you want. I don't know how you think that I could fake an email that was sent to me. It is not heresay. Just ask Bettylou. It was from the person that left her a negative on 1/28/02. Easy enough to check out.
You know, I didn't come on here to cause any trouble. There are two sides to every story and dammit, I had the right to tell mine. Told it, learned a LOT in one day and I've said all I'll say on the subject unless bettylou starts in on me again.
posted on February 20, 2002 06:50:38 AM new
WOW!!!!
Guess I need to make this a 2 act play. I'm not sure who to cast as BP. I have a feeling retail guy will be easy. I still can't exactly figure out argh. I'm thinking a person like the professor (on Gilligan's Island, not you Higgins) would fit right in for argh. Level headed... Intelligent.... but too brainy for backwards hicks from the country like me.
Well, I better start writing.... I have a feeling that this thing could go on forever, and I do not want to get too far behind.
Remember people.... I am here to make everyone laugh.... If I offend you.... it's ok if you laugh about it.
And if I haven't offended you.... just look at my me page on ebay..... there is a picture of me. That should do it.
They don't make them any uglier than me.
posted on February 20, 2002 07:53:06 AM newalwaysbroke Here is the TOB
And now, the FINE PRINT (sent to all sellers)...
I will ask for a refund of insurance fees paid if the package is shipped without insurance. I will also leave negative feedback if I do not receive
this refund. The number of sellers that overlook this insurance request is shocking. Please ship the package insured if I'm paying for it.
Please note the ebay auction number inside (or outside) of the package.
Also, please do NOT use styrofoam, peanuts or shredded paper as packing material (it ends up all over my house). Bubble wrap is O.K.
posted on February 20, 2002 08:50:53 AM new
I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that many of us have, at one time or another, bounced a check. It really isn't that tough to do - even on accident. All it takes is writing checks against deposits that haven't cleared and aren't going to...
I do believe that bpwilson didn't knowingly send a bad check. And she has certainly admitted fault way more than enough times. She did try to work with the seller to return the goods AND pay any eBay fees, which is more than most people will do. Since Bettylou does take returns, that probably would have been the easiest solution.
But no...the seller who doesn't have time to deal with e-mails decides her time is better spent here. Yeah, I know most of this thread was about the first buyer, but wouldn't it have made far more sense to just accept the return, do a little private venting, and move on? NSF checks are no fun, but when you have a buyer who has made a mistake, and is quite apologetic, and wants to return your goods, and pay your fees - why drag things out like this? What is the point? What is to be gained by dragging things out?
At first I thought it was pretty crummy that the buyer didn't pay Bettylou sooner. After reading the hateful things she has said on here - even without reading the acutal e-mails involved - I have to admit that I would might have done the same thing. I suspect that being verbally (textually?) abusive is not a good way to motivate people into paying quicker. I think that's just human nature. No one wants to read that they are pond scum for making a mistake.
Um, biddaddy - you'll have to recast me. The professor is the wrong gender.
Libra: I assume that TOB got sent AFTER the auction closed? Unreal. I guess it would have to be, since most sellers would cancel (and block future) bids from that kind of buyer. Seems like that buyer would be better off not buying on eBay at all. Did you happen to notice their feedback? I'm guessing they left (and gotten) their fair share of negs!
Sorry about that. I do love your comments. You make good sense. I am trying to write your character in, but I think I am going to keep your character as the Professor. He is much easier to write for. It also provides a balance to my story. (If you do not mind). If I score a million on this one, I will make it worth your while. I already promised Betty lou her cut. I just hope the check I write her does not bounce. But if it does.... that would make a great sequel.
Now about that kitty person... Boy do I have preconceived idea's about that one.....
Libra,
I think I would mail that person back the money for the insurance (if you so desire) along with another note saying..... "I'm sorry.... I did not have bubble wrap as you so eloquently requested me to shipped the item in after the auction closed, but I did have the closest thing to that.....wrapped bubbles.
I packaged your item in my very own bubble solution, and wrapped it in my very own card board box. I hope this was acceptable for you, and I hope I have met all your requirements that you have demanded of me.
posted on February 20, 2002 10:18:15 AM new
Pretzel chokers and bigdaddywes is making ME laugh at least! Almost choked on my tea! At least it wasn't a pretzel! Thank you!?!
posted on February 20, 2002 02:40:48 PM new
I had a buyer in December that struck me as a little odd right away. I looked at his feedback and the feedback he was giving. He was giving people neutrals if they didn't enclose his own receipt with the merchandise when they shipped it to him. It wouldn't do to enclose the closed auction printout or the seller's receipt, it had to be HIS receipt. Since most sellers have the item packaged and labeled to go out when the payment hits their mailbox, they weren't reopening the box to enclose HIS receipt. Therefore, he said they weren't closing the auction in a satisfactory manner and gave them a neutral. Well, I was ready for him! Even though his package was packed up and labeled and ready to ship, I cut that box open and slapped HIS receipt inside!! I bet I ruined that guy's day when he found he had no excuse to give me a neutral.
posted on February 20, 2002 03:31:51 PM new
hey all. I had an experience that I posted under "hostile seller". It had to do with my money order not arriving on time. You wouldn't believe the things WeeBit posted under my post.
She actually tried to say that by my m.o. not arriving (I thought it was lost in the mail til it came back for postage... at which time I immediately resent it)... she's trying to say that I'm guilty of the same thing as her -- bouncing 2 checks and then trying to teach the seller a lesson by not paying. Does anybody beside Weebit see the link there? Read my posts and tell me if I'm just biased or if Weebit obviously has a complete inability to use logic?
posted on February 20, 2002 03:32:23 PM new
Kasue,
What did the buyer consider "his" receipt? Also, did he request you to do this in any e-mails - or - was he just waiting to hit you in the FB?
posted on February 20, 2002 03:57:33 PM new
His receipt was a form he had made up and then he hand wrote in the details for each particular auction; Description, Item Number, Price, Shipping, etc. No, he didn't request that you return it in any emails, just on the form when it arrrived with his payment. I just reviewed the feedback that he had left to others a little while ago, and noticed that he would repeatedly enter things like:
VERY PROFESSIONAL SELLER, HANDLED A PROBLEM VERY WELL, AAAAA
handled a problem professionally
Ultimately Handled a problem professionally++++
Took care of a problem with class and integrity!
Excellent seller-handled a problem with grace and integrity!
handled a problem well
handled difficult situation with class
A really fine seller! Handled an issue like a real pro.
It sounds to me like he found fault with his purchases and would get a partial refund. The examples I have listed are all within a two month period. Hmmmm.
posted on February 20, 2002 04:22:31 PM new
Kasue, that bidder might have scared me off. Why couldn't he just print 2 copies of his "receipt" and keep one for his records? Kind of sounds like he's determined to hit the 'ol bad FB button one way or other. He'll either Neut you for a reason he set you up for, or he'll neg you if you don't refund him. I wish it was legal to post people's ID's that have a bad history like his. It certainly looks like a scam with "handled problem like a pro" over & over again.
posted on February 20, 2002 06:32:30 PM new
Don't most banks cover bad checks for small amounts anyway? Or offer some sort of overdraft protection?
I owned a video store for about 10 years and I would say 50% of the bad checks we got people took care right away. 25% we eventually cashed and the other 25% we turned over to a collection agency and really never collected much. I think most people who write bad checks don't mean to. I understand (though not it's right) how some could be lazy not keep the check book balanced and accidently write a bad check (not necessarily what happened here). If your bank bounces a $20 check you should change banks.
Intentionally writing a bad check is just plain wrong. I agree with the victim statement earlier. It seems like those who wrote the bad checks are trying to turn the debate around make themselves out to be victims. A liberal mind set if I've ever seen one.
This is getting a little emotional. A cat fight if you will. Hell hath no fury ....
[ edited by nufsaid on Feb 20, 2002 06:33 PM ]
posted on February 20, 2002 09:40:23 PM new
I have a few practical questions and observations:
1) Doesn't eBay require all of the seller's terms to be listed on the item page? I thought eBay required this so that the terms couldn't be changed on another page. I might be wrong. BettyLou probably knows better than I do, but if she's not sure, she might want to check.
2) What percent of checks bounce? is it 1%, 2%? I would expect that by accepting only checks and M.O., most buyers will pay with check (b/c a M.O. costs the buyer $$). When you have a few hundred checks roll through a month, how many would you expect to bounce?
3) Let's say you have you 400 sales a month, and each auction is about a week from the bid until the buyer sends the cash. This translates to 400 people-weeks/month (8 people-years/month). I bet each of us go through a major, unexpected life event every 8-10 years-- death of a family member, major accident, loss of job. If that's the case, it should be normal to get one "sob story" a month. Sure, maybe half the people are lieing, but these things do happen.
I hope everyone can work out these problems amicably.
posted on February 20, 2002 10:09:56 PM new
Sometimes life gets in the way of eBay ....
Problems do occur .. it is how you correct them that matters. I would have cut Richie Rich some slack. She tried to fix it as best she could.
No one can see a crisis coming ... you just wake up one day and you find yourself in the middle of it. Then you have to find a way to come out on top again.
I know. I am fighting my way back now, too. Bad things do happen to good people. Unless you have never been to where you have to decide whether to pay a bill or feed your children you will never understand.
posted on February 21, 2002 04:30:03 AM newI am fighting my way back now, too. Bad things do happen to good people. Unless you have never been to where you have to decide whether to pay a bill or feed your children you will never understand.
posted on February 21, 2002 10:21:03 AM new
On January 31st after 2 months of fighting my father passed away. Those that have had this expierence knows nothing else matters for a while.
By the time Feb 7th rolled around and I started looking at things I had bounced an $855 house payment and a $1,680 JC Penny payment.
My bank caught the house payment and rolled it to another account to pay second time since it was an ACH thing and JC Penny simply sent the check again about a week later.
Nither of them called me a low life or a penny roller. Never heard from anyone about it. Well except for the OD charge from the bank which comes in a nice letter.
I have a $1,000 OD protection also that was maxed out covering other checks. I have not bounced a check since I was a kid some twenty years ago. But it happened 2 weeks ago.
I'm sorry about your father. It gets a little bit easier as the days go by. It was my father's passing, too, that was the beginning of the problems. We are a very tight family, and I spent weekends with my children and my parents. He was very much like a father to my children, and the loss affects them as such.
On my first day back to work after his funeral I got a letter that I lost my biggest account, the one that was carrying everything. It wouldn't have hurt so bad but this was a product we developed for a major charity ... we built the program over the last three years. This year was to be the payoff .... they chose to have an inferior product made cheaper and force their volunteers to sell it by only licensing one company. I also got a phone call that I lost my open account for my business after 10 years because I didn't send a check I promised to just before I got the call to go to my father's deathbed.
Oh, well. Life goes on ... I am digging out day by day. When problems arose before this we would always say "At least no one died." This time someone did ....
posted on February 21, 2002 12:59:41 PM new
LaneFamily: You have made unprovoked insinuating comments about me in other threads and I have let them pass. This, however, is too much.
We all have fathers, Jim, and to our infinite sadness sooner or later our fathers pass on. For most of us it is much too soon. In my case my father died suddenly minutes before he was to be discharged from the hospital; the doctors all agreed he was going to be just fine. He died without a will, without a "Goodbye" and without the "I love you" I waited 46 years to hear.
Before you come back with one of your rejoinders, have the grace to remember that my mother is reading this thread. She and I are both faceless to you; in fact, I realize we don't even exist as people to you and others here, but I don't understand that thinking. I have stupidly and naively revealed more about myself and my business than 99% of the people who post to this forum, a mistake you can be sure I won't repeat. For those few still reading who've used their logic and good sense to dismiss the smoke-blowing and obfuscation, I thank you.
As for you, Jim, I am sorry you lost your father. You see, I figure there is a real person on the other end of your keyboard.
