posted on August 5, 2002 08:57:04 AM new
Jamie- FYI- my poodle was spayed. No one has a vested interest in championing Ebay other than Ebay and you know it. Those who say that Ebay has done nothing about fraud are wrong. Those who say that ebay is doing everything it can about fraud are wrong. Those who say that they can get Ebay to change its policies are wrong. If you want to compete with Ebay go for it, but if you do the things that got you all those NEG's you won't be around long. Still waiting to see the letter from Ebay.
posted on August 5, 2002 09:05:51 PM new
ebay should be shut down for good.
reason:
too many fraud,
too many community watch abuses,
worst customer service,
bad public relationship,
sucked too much money out of sellers,
too powerful to stop,
all of their policies are just ways to cover their greedy ass,
...
posted on August 8, 2002 06:14:43 AM new
Ummm, Jamie ...Up until that last post of yours, I was hoping you were being sincere. It appears, though, and as have others have predicted, you have merely completed a fait accompli.
IOW, because no one wants to debate, you have to assume your side wins by default.
Can you elaborate on that please. I don't lie. I am most sincere. That's what gets me in trouble! We are in a situation where we simply are not sure what to do?
I haven't gloated or said "we won."
If we wanted to just save face we'd have some anonymous inside person debate me.
I'm not trying to "look good." I'm being completely honest.
I haven't had a single person apply to debate me on this issue.
I have emailed Bobby "Toyranch" Beeman, Rosalinda from tag notes. Several prominant OTWA people like Kevin, WCM, and others.
It looks like board folks aren't interested in a clean honest debate.
I guess people prefer flaming and attacking for the sake of venting or some other primordial instinct.
I've very saddened as I felt that these issues needed to be debated and worked hard preparing my points of attack.
And to show my sincerity I am allowing people to apply up until 6PM tonight.
posted on August 8, 2002 08:21:02 AM new
Well, I guess I could present a sincere challenge George Bush Jr. to a debate wherein I asked him (personally) to defend his "We are going to attack and bomb every country in the world that starts with the letters 'I' through 'K' next week", and then when he doesn't show up, I could say "See, I was right - the POTUS cannot defend this policy."
As for anyone being afraid to debate you, like I suggested before, I am more than willing to take you on. But it has to be a face-to-face debate using the Rules that you insist on ... anything else won't amount to a hill of beans (tm HillBilly).
Just name the time and place, and send me enough money for air fare and accomodations. I would be pleased to take the eBay side of this debate under these conditions. I can't make it tonight though ...
You have now read my challenge to you. How about it?
posted on August 8, 2002 08:51:23 AM newDo that many people believe that the premise is correct? Are they afraid to debate me? ... It looks like board folks aren't interested in a clean honest debate.
There are probably some other reasons you haven't thought of.
You had a chance to share your ideas here. A good opportunity to share some constructive criticism. Instead, you chose to bill your "debate" at AuctionPie as some kind of media event. My own personal feeling is that you are more interested in driving folks to your site, and using this forum to spam, than in actually building the auction community. You could have participated here, yet you went out of your way to derail the discussion.
Nobody is afraid to debate you. People are not as stupid as you think, and most won't be manipulated for your personal gain. If you've got some constructive ideas on how to improve the OAI, go ahead and post them for discussion here. If all you want to do is invent reasons to spam this forum, forgetaboutit.
posted on August 8, 2002 09:56:42 AM new
Perhaps people don't want to to be part of your publicity stunt.
But since you asked & you're talking about business models.....
....I think it's important for sellers to realize that E-bay is a business and that each seller is a business as well.
All that matters is whether or not it is profitable for someone to sell on E-bay and if it is profitable for E-bay to operate it's auction business...and as long as there are sellers coming to E-bay to sell, and making money doing so, as long as there are people who want to come to E-bay to spend money, the company will be around.
It's all about whether sellers can remain profitable, and if buyers want to buy. Considering the employees of my bank always recognize me when I'm depositing money from auctions and greet me as: "The E-bay guy" and tell me stories of people they know who have been E-bay junkies for several years now, I don't think that's going to change.
See those people are what matter, not us the seller who is making money or the seller who isn't. As long as people come to e-bay looking to spend money, there will always be the seller who finds something to sell to them for a profit.
That's what a lot of people on this board who are debating Auction site X vs. Auction site Z don't realize, it's not about us, it's about the issue of whether or not there are customers willing to spend money at said auction site, as well as how many customers come to the site in the first place.
The End.
The only way that E-bay will go out of business or "Become Doomed" is if someone develops a model for an auction site that BUYERS like more then E-bay, and more importantly is able to successfully market it to said buyers, if they succeed at doing that, we sellers will come to them.
The upstart auction sites are trying to be a better solution to the seller, which is stupid, be a better solution to the buyer, so that buyer will leave ebay and come to the new auction site, cater to the buyer because the smart seller will adjust to fit the needs of the customer.
After all, why did all of us start selling items in online auctions in the first place?
Because there were buyers there who would spend money on the goods we had to offer.
Final Note: For someone who likes to talk in MBA terms like "Business Model Viability" you should know that no CEO is going to debate their model with an upstart and give their competition a load of free advertising, doing so lends credibility to an upstart and quite frankly serves no purpose, you're not a threat to e-bay at this point, and debating makes it look like you are.
This isn't politics or academia, Businesses debate by making more money then their competition.
As for the fee nonsense, E-bay is a business, that's how they make their money and drive the enterprise that pushes buyers to your auctions AND you have to spend money to make money, businesses have costs, nothing is free.
Besides, the total costs are a pittance, if you design your pricing schema correctly, the fees should be an almost non-issue.
Also, as for a vested interested in championing e-bay, well anyone who is selling on e-bay has an interest in doing so......
Sorry, we don't have to fly you anywhere to debate.
There is a structure ready to be used. The debate forum will only be set to allow the debaters and moderator to post.
It really works fine. There can even be a poll for users to decide which arguements they prefer.
So if you are serious about wanting to debate you have 1:03 hours to respond.
The challenge was issued to Meg, Ebay, and interested parties. Anyone who wishes to follow standard debating protocal and do so in a clean manner may do so.
That was clearly printed in the challenge.
To me it seems that out of the hundreds, or thousands of messageboard users that not a single person was willing to argue the opposite of the forum does say something.
M you made some very valid points. What was your point though? Yes, of course Ebay is a business but many think it is a most greedy one or has become a greedy one.
They can do as they please but since they are public company we as users can surely discuss and debate the merits and policies of said company, no?
posted on August 8, 2002 02:35:15 PM new
Jamie ...
If I cannot see my team and my opponents, I am not interested. I don't care how "offical" you want to claim your secret site is, what you are suggesting is not a debate. It would be absolutely no different that what we have going on here ... a discussion.
Jamie ... with all due respect, I think it really is time for you to state your argument here and now. If you don't, then I (and I suspect everyone else who has read this thread) will know what your true motives are and I won't bother trying to pry any more thoughts out of you.
Right now, it looks nothing like you want to debate
Ball's on your side of the field Jamie. Run, or punt?
posted on August 8, 2002 04:08:21 PM newYou and I could argue here on AW but we both know that the stusi's and twinny's of the world would be jumping in and interuppting.
The purpose of a discussion is to get many points of view. Twinsoft has lots of good stuff to offer in this type of discussion.
That's fine for discussion or board silliness.
Well, remember who started this particular silliness
Robert's rules of order.
You cannot, repeat, cannot follow Robert's Rules of Order using an internet chat forum!
And at least I know that the debate wouldn't be deleted by some strange board.
AW is pretty good these days. If everyone sorta stayed on topic, I don't think they would delete anything. But, it's your call Jamie. It looks like you will be debating with yourself, in which case it shouldn't be difficult to use Robert's.
Now if you want to debate a single point or argue here, go for it my friend.
We're all waiting for you Jamie ... put up or, you know ...
I just turned 38 on July 31. One of the tiny grains of wisdom I've learned in my 37th year is to not swing at the outside pitch as much as I'd like too.
That being stated I don't think I've said anything that should be misunderstood.
I'll work a point over with anyone on anyboard. I like the debate structure and know that it will work as we are using it. Another debate announcement is to follow soon.
We have a structure. It's open to all. Nobody is forced to use it.
posted on August 8, 2002 10:30:38 PM newI like the debate structure and know that it will work as we are using it. Another debate announcement is to follow soon.
Next time why don't you get the debate SET UP first. That way you don't have to waste everyone's time advertising some non-existent event.
I'll work a point over with anyone on anyboard.
You've been politely invited to do so, many times. Are you waiting for an engraved invitation?
Many people here complain about eBay. That's no great feat. In fact, I suppose it's kind of expected. But since you are here as a rep of a "new" auction site that is supposed to be "different" and "better," I'd expect something more. Like what you plan to do to improve things for buyers and sellers.
So help me god, in all your months of spamming, the only tangible pledge I've heard from you is that you will allow sellers to choose the color scheme for their categories.
You said elsewhere that your chat site gets 20,000 hits a day. Funny though, only two or three people post there regularly. Oh well, if you ever give up on online auctions, you can get a job working for the Florida Voting Commission.
posted on August 9, 2002 05:40:41 AM new
Hi Twinny,
Kudos, you're getting better at your attack style. It must all those Auction Antics you've been up to!
"Next time why don't you get the debate SET UP first. That way you don't have to waste everyone's time advertising some non-existent event. "
Well we honestly expected someone, even you to either champion Ebay or take a shot at humbling me in the debate arena.
"You've been politely invited to do so, many times. Are you waiting for an engraved invitation? "
I have debated a point or two. Nobody is going to use their "A" material that they are saving for a debate forum in a arguement thread.
"So help me god, in all your months of spamming, the only tangible pledge I've heard from you is that you will allow sellers to choose the color scheme for their categories."
Well Twinny, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps you haven't read things on our site (even though you are registered member and plugged your own site there)about our site.
And no, I can't share those things that make our site special here as it would spam and I wouldn't want Stusi to get his nut in a bind.
"You said elsewhere that your chat site gets 20,000 hits a day. Funny though, only two or three people post there regularly. Oh well, if you ever give up on online auctions, you can get a job working for the Florida Voting Commission"
Well twinny, how many times a day do you go there? Remember you have to be honest or I'll check the logs!
Look at the thread views, even in your own spam thread on our spam bar.
And here's a question back at you. Do you not see some pleasant innovations on our Cpie?
Anyway, good to see your change in style for the better.
posted on August 9, 2002 08:09:00 AM new
>>M you made some very valid points. What was your point though? Yes, of course Ebay is a business but many think it is a most greedy one or has become a greedy one.<<
Did you read the post?
Who cares if a Business is greedy, isn't that the point? Doesn't it take some level of greed in order to become a success?
Personally, I don't see e-bay's so called Greed, but maybe that's because I haven't been around as long as other people have. They have to charge fees, they will raise fees, but as long as a seller is able to build those fees into the sale price of his items, and still turn a decent profit without hurting sales, I don't see the problem.
If you were to perform a detailed financial analysis with respect to the cost of e-bay's fees, vs. the value of the traffic they drive to your auction listings, in terms of the marketing costs involved in generating that traffic yourself, I think you'd find that e-bay's fees are rather cheap.
Especially if you were able to determine how many people see your listing, rather then how many clicked on it.
Furthermore, you missed the point of my post. The point was that we as sellers are IRRELEVANT to the long term viability of e-bay's businessm model, while the BUYERS, however, are relevant. As long as e-bay has the amount of traffic it does, as long as its the place that Internet Consumers think to go to purchase rarities, collectibles, or to just get a deal, E-bay isn't going anywhere.
Because as long as there is someone willing to buy something, "someone" will figure out a way to do it profitably.
See, that's the thing most of the people on this board miss when complaining about e-bay, starting their own "answer to e-bay" etc, etc. They're doing everything to cater to, or from the perspective of the seller, when they should be doing so from the buyer's prespective.
>>They can do as they please but since they are public company we as users can surely discuss and debate the merits and policies of said company, no?<<
I thought we were debating business model viability, in fact, aren't you the one who claims you can prove E-bay's model isn't viable long term?
What are we debating here, whether or not "a seller" can make money on e-bay, or whether or not "sellers on aggregate" can make money on e-bay. I seriously doubt it's the latter......which more or less puts on the onus on that seller who isn't successful and makes the debate moot.
In any event, I think this whole issue of debating a company's policies and merits as if you'll have some affect on them is egotistical. Unless we're simply discussing a company's profitability potential or are prepared to take some action that will have an affect on said company.....I don't see the point.
"Who cares if a Business is greedy, isn't that the point?"
Hi M,
Well if the business in question near monopolizes an industry there are rules about how greedy they may be.
If their greed exceeds legal boudaries that is difficult too (no fingers at any company so don't go there) as such a company has the resources to fight off even a justified case in the courts.
These companies are just too difficult to deal with at a certain level without government intervention.
"If you were to perform a detailed financial analysis with respect to the cost of e-bay's fees, vs. the value of the traffic they drive to your auction listings, in terms of the marketing costs involved in generating that traffic yourself, I think you'd find that e-bay's fees are rather cheap. "
Sorry, I would have to drastically agree with you on that one. I think most others would too. Especially now that Ebay doesn't allow your listings to generate sales on your own website or help build up your own business Brand.
At the risk of sounding like Spam our site will be able to offer 600 live listings at any one point during a month for only $24.95.
How could we offer this if it cost more?
How much is an ebay listing worth vs it's cost? I think it's vastly overpriced especially with the non-linking policy. (unless you're a big mega corp!)
"The point was that we as sellers are IRRELEVANT to the long term viability of e-bay's businessm model, while the BUYERS, however, are relevant"
I strongly agree with that one too my friend.
People NEED to buy things. They can't unless there is a place to buy them!
Now don't get me wrong. It's a balancing act. If you have sellers with no action your market won't survive.
The trick is finding that sweetspot where bidders and sellers both get a fair shake. I think Ebay had that and lost it.
I actually think Amazon will blow past Ebay in a few years unless they make more "improvments." (Love ya Jeff!)
"I thought we were debating business model viability, in fact, aren't you the one who claims you can prove E-bay's model isn't viable long term? "
Yup. Won't do it here though as AW does have some links to Ebay.
"Unless we're simply discussing a company's profitability potential or are prepared to take some action that will have an affect on said company"
I think companies need to be more honest and upfront with their users. Some of the solutions to very large problems can be easily remedied simply by doing this.
"I don't see the point. "
Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.
posted on August 9, 2002 04:26:49 PM new
Jamie ...
With all due respect, if you want to play James Bond and not let us in your secret knowledge of eBay, this is a dead thread.
With all due respect, if your true intent is to promote your auction venue, then you should be doing this under the "Other Online Auctions" Forum. This really has nothing to do with eBay.
We're on to you Pal ... time to move on
btw, on the cost issue, you have to be kidding with the $24.95 thing right???
