Thought I'd share this latest experience with you great folks.
In the month of November I won numerous auctions through fifty-eight (58) different sellers for well over 100 items. I bid on multiple auctions by one seller when they are running the items I'm seeking.
Of those 58 completed sales (I've received the items) twenty (20) will never see another penny from me. High ship-fees are the number one negative. I DO understand and accept and extra dollar or so for miscellaneous expenses, but have no patience for those who charge an extra $4.00 or $5.00 on the smalls I buy. Admittedly, I failed in a couple of bids to check the listed ship-fees, so I live with the consequences. THAT was my fault! Other sellers, however, who say they'll combine fees for multiple wins, then sock-it-to you are on my "Black List". (Yes, I have a DO-NOT-BUY-FROM list.)
Other negs include dirty/damaged merchandise and poor packing. I received, from two individual sellers, fragile items packed--would you believe!--in bubble envelopes with NO solid protection.
The other reason for being on my Black List is the non-acceptance of On-Line credit card payment. As I tend to buy a lot I prefer to pay through PayPal or eBayPayments so I can keep a record of my spending. I will, however, bid on auctions for that "just have to have it" item even if the seller does not provide on-line credit card payments.
Now to the GOOD part!
The other thirty-eight (38)--2/3 of the sellers--shipped at fair fees, shipped the items quickly and well packed, sent quality merchandise, AND they were good communicators and fun to deal with. Good communicators, in my book, includes detailed e-mails with calculated ship fees, and a brief note letting me know when the item was/will be shipped. Some are even thoughtful enough to include the delivery confirmation # so I can track the item myself.
Yes, I do have a BEST SELLERS list! Those are the FIRST sellers I check out before doing a random search. They've earned my trust and I will spend my $$$ with them whenever possible.
Thanks for listening to me. Maybe I needed to vent a little--but also wanted to share this 'from a buyer's point-of-view'.
posted on December 11, 2002 03:39:56 PM new
Appreciate the sharing. That comment about non-acceptance of online credit cards reinforces my perception that most eBay buyers, like you, want sellers to pay for the buyer's convenience.
I urge such people to pass on my auctions, since I am not willing to sacrifice any of my often razor-thin margin to their convenience.
posted on December 11, 2002 03:49:34 PM new
padding the shipping fee has to do with credit card fee and speedy shipping and trackable dc and the time to email you and tell you item is on its way.
last but not least,with so many items and so few bidders,many items are sold at less than satisfactory price,hence seller try to recoup from shipping and handling.
but a good seller will try to provide good customer service without losing his shirt.
but it is good to hear from a buyer,i myself have been doing some buying on ebay and off ebay,most of the time i wish i have kept my money instead.
posted on December 11, 2002 03:51:37 PM new
Yes Pat, it's always good for us to hear what buyers appreciate and what they see as problems. Most here who sell are also buyers and have had many of the same experiences you have shared.
Glad to hear that your % of good sellers was 2/3 towards the positive.
On taking online payments....they are wonderful for buyers. I've enjoyed the ease of buying since they first started. BUT as a seller they can present different problem areas, one being what fluffy has stated above.
posted on December 11, 2002 03:57:46 PM newAppreciate the sharing. That comment about non-acceptance of online credit cards reinforces my perception that most eBay buyers, like you, want sellers to pay for the buyer's convenience.
I urge such people to pass on my auctions, since I am not willing to sacrifice any of my often razor-thin margin to their convenience.
Now that's an interesting reply? The seller realizes that most buyers want the ease of online credit cards. Then in the next paragraph states that the seller wishes that majority would pass on the seller's auctions?
Damn the torpedos!
posted on December 11, 2002 04:13:04 PM new
Nice to hear from a buyers experience. I can only reiterate some of the comments from other sellers, of the P&H fees, the handling is the most time consuming on sometimes small or no margins. I think I'd make it on your YES list as my P&H fees are only 50% above what it costs me. Obviously, we're all using AW so smart use of this (only twor weeks) has saved me an enormous amount of time. Re: Credit cards, it comes down to $$. Historically on Paypal for instance, my fees amount to 11% of every sale - thats HUGE. Complicated obviously because I'm in Australia so transferring money down etc is expensive let alone paypals 'cross border' fees when paid in any currency except US$.
I may make it to buyers no list though as I'm going to accept Visa/MC direct and charge a % for those who demand to use paypal.
Thats my beef - more to do with Paypal's fees than anything else )
posted on December 11, 2002 04:36:12 PM newHigh ship-fees are the number one negative.
And YOU know what the exact shipping charges should be because???
1. You're Psychic?
2. They told how much they were ripping you for?
3. You base it on completely unfounded assumtions with no tolerence for facts...
I would guess it is the third reason.
The other reason for being on my Black List is the non-acceptance of On-Line credit card payment. As I tend to buy a lot I prefer to pay through PayPal or eBayPayments so I can keep a record of my spending
Yes, not having online payment methods through PayPal and such do make profitable fraud so much harder. You know, get the item and immediately do a chargeback claiming no item received?
Oh, maybe YOU don't that, but then again YOU aren't the only one looking for online payment auctions. Alot of people don't take it because they have been severely BURNED trying to accomodate people like YOU.
Most normal people keep our own record of spending and don't leave it to eBay or PayPal. You HAVE heard of pencil and paper, haven't you?
As you can probably see, I am not one of those "The Customer is Always Right" people. That was a Myth created by dishonest customers to steal from honest businesses...
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 11, 2002 04:41 PM ]
posted on December 11, 2002 04:51:09 PM newThe other reason for being on my Black List is the non-acceptance of On-Line credit card payment. As I tend to buy a lot I prefer to pay through PayPal or eBayPayments so I can keep a record of my spending. I will, however, bid on auctions for that "just have to have it" item even if the seller does not provide on-line credit card payments.
Seeing how eBay payments are going away... think you may see more sellers returning to Money Orders only... I know I have and feel better doing it.
At least if you don't bid, then I can't Pi$$ you off... LOL
posted on December 11, 2002 04:58:36 PM new
I've bought a bunch of widgets for about $1 each. In my auction description I put that "shipping is only $6.99". A bidder won one of my auctions for $2.99 . The other day I received a neutral feedback from this buyer that said something like "Great item but shipping prices are a little high". Even though this buyer was probably in the military because his address was one of those APO/FPO things I left him a big negative feedback to teach him a lesson! Was I wrong?
posted on December 11, 2002 05:05:06 PM new
come to my auctions, no handling fees, careful packaging and shipping within 24 hours of receiving payment 6 days a week. I also email when I receive payment and send dc after item is shipped. I also accept paypal and will continue to do so.
I set my starting price at a place where I am making a profit...to make a profit from shipping/handling charges is robbery without a gun in my opinion.
and the whiners we need to do without are the sellers who moan and groan because the buyer wants a honest deal.
there is another item that will put a seller on my "do not buy from list"..those that refuse to take responsibility if the item doesn't arrive. these sellers don't even have to ship, just sail the USPS lost it..no insurance, prove they shipped it at all.
posted on December 11, 2002 05:07:35 PM new
I don't see how you can pay $5 more without knowing it. Maybe because I am a seller and have a good idea of postage costs, etc. - I don't know, but if I buy something, I basically know how much it weighs, and have a ballpark idea of how much it will cost to ship. If seller says $10 shipping and I think it weighs less than a pound, there is a very good chance I will skip that auction.
posted on December 11, 2002 05:16:17 PM new
Yup, let a buyer speak from their experience and they will get blasted left and right because there are more sellers here.
I buy and sell about equal on ebay and wonder how many sellers here also buy on ebay. There have been several threads in the past few years where sellers admitted that they would never buy on ebay because of the rip-offs.
Yes, know shipping and handling before you bid. But what if you pay high costs for it and get a beater box with disgusting packaging material? Do you really want to buy again?
What if you get something chipped or cracked and you have to go to all the trouble of e-mailing and have the seller think you are whining because you don't want crap? They were dishonest in the description but you do the work of repackaging, shipping back and waiting for a refund.
I buy less and less just because ebay is getting to be a hassle to shop on and what used to be fun is now work. Most of my transactions have gone okay but everytime I get a bad one I am in no rush to bid again.
The average ebay buyer is as smart as a tree stump. Someone quoted that here yesterday and I disagree. There are just as many sellers dumb as a tree stump. If you treat all your buyers with that attitude they will find better places to shop.
posted on December 11, 2002 05:21:11 PM newNow that's an interesting reply? The seller realizes that most buyers want the ease of online credit cards. Then in the next paragraph states that the seller wishes that majority would pass on the seller's auctions?
Yes, I certainly do wish they would pass on our auctions rather than whine about it.
You see, I don't believe that every buyer is a buyer worth having. More precisely, I am not willing to spend money to retain every potential buyer or even (gasp!) every existing customer.
Interestingly, in the last several years more and more companies much bigger than mine have come to the same conclusion. (Which is why you have to navigate call director menus when you have a problem and why software companies no longer offer free tech support. But that's another story.)
In various milieus and situations over the years, I have had merchant card processing accounts. Not ONCE (including eBay sales) have I EVER had a customer go nuts and charge, charge, charge my stuff until her credit was exhausted. I no longer believe such people exist.
Instead, we got people trying to charge tiny amounts. $4.01. $6.00. 99 cents. It gets absurd. Real-life merchants get this all the time; the more daring of them put up those minimum-purchase-for-Visa/MC signs.
At some point, you've got to understand how people shop. There are certain types of businesses everyone is familiar with, and certain expectations. If you've set yourself up as a Macy's, you'd better take credit cards.
However, if you've set yourself up as a clearance center or factory outlet, everyone knows those businesses often don't take credit cards, and so you don't have to. Plus the buyer has the added fun of shopping at a closeout sale. Buyers who demand their convenience be served in this situation just don't get it. I tell 'em to ease on down the road.
posted on December 11, 2002 06:53:08 PM new
champagne taste and kmart budget.
many ebay sellers want neiman marcus service and quality but the kmart price tag.
do they ever ask how small merchants can afford to offer such amenities??
posted on December 11, 2002 06:59:09 PM newYes, know shipping and handling before you bid. But what if you pay high costs for it and get a beater box with disgusting packaging material? Do you really want to buy again?
Very true, but I know on my end, that won't happen because I know how I want to receive an item.
That is why my shipping is a little higher than some of the others selling the same things, but never once had a complaint about the packaging, even sending overseas.
I do know it is frustrating to buy a small item and see crappy packaging when it arrives, but I knew what the shipping cost was and keep my mouth shut and feedback to myself and move on.
If enough buyers just don't buy from certain sellers then they will move on.
posted on December 11, 2002 08:35:06 PM new
Robert....about your neg...you seem to be concerned about it ..so I think YOU THINK You might have done wrong...Can't change it now...so FORGET ABOUT IT!!!...GOOD LUCK!!
posted on December 11, 2002 10:07:23 PM new
Hey mlecher, I found this on the Web. Sounds like it's right up our alley!
It's a description of a seminar called "The Customer Is Not Always Right: Taking the Bully By the Horns".
[i]The customer is always right, right? Wrong. This bold session dares to tell the truth. Tolerating intentionally rude behavior rewards it. Bullies don`t want a win-win outcome, they want to win.
This workshop proposes that a wiser approach to client relations is to, first, do everything reasonably possible to satisfy a customer. If that doesn`t work, it`s literally and figuratively time to cut our losses by asking impossible-to-please customers to take their business elsewhere.
Of course, saying this is one thing, doing it is another. That`s why this workshop talks you through a step-by-step process for determining when a customer has persistently crossed the line of acceptable behavior, and explains how we can diplomatically, yet firmly, let them know they need to treat us with respect and act with integrity - or else. Sample issues to be addressed include:
-Why it`s financially and philosophically smart to honor our hard-working employees instead of letting customers get away with everything;
-How we can teach staff members to make executive decisions about when, where, and how to draw the line -- and then trust their ability to do so;
-Five communication techniques to try first because they can turn around almost any negative situation;
-How to tell if a person is a bully -- someone who intentionally intimidates and manipulates others to get his/her way;
-The surprising word that backfires with bullies (and it`s the one we`re told to use);
-How we may unwittingly be contributing to a bully`s efforts to take advantage of us; and
-Ten criteria to help us decide when it is in the company`s best interests to fire a client.
It`s time to understand that well-intended attempts to appease bullies actually encourage their inappropriate behavior. Someone has to hold them accountable and say, "No, you cannot treat us this way." If you`re ready to learn realistic (not idealistic) ways to deal with people who purposely violate your rules, policies, and rights, this one-of-a-kind presentation shows you how to do just that.
[/i]
Sign me up. I'm ready...
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Dec 11, 2002 10:14 PM ]
posted on December 11, 2002 10:15:44 PM new
I finally agree with fluffy on something. On her first post, she states for people to pass on her auctions. I couldn't agree more. Everyone should pass on her auctions. There would be many more happy buyers if the did pass on them.
posted on December 11, 2002 10:27:18 PM new
I agree Fluffy, the customer is NOT always right. In my internet consulting business, I have cut clients loose before. One in particular was a perfectionist, and was impossible to please. He was mighty shocked when I told him that I would not work with him anymore. Another would call me on every possible number, fax me, page me, email me simultaneously for every small question. Again, he got the boot.
A small percent of the people will take up a huge percent of your time, they are just not worth dealing with.
posted on December 11, 2002 11:05:02 PM new
I am amazed at the number of negative responses that are given. I guess most of you didn't really pay attention to what pat1959 was saying. All of you need to take a course in marketing & retailing. You would learn that there are better ways to make a buck just by listening to the buyer. I never overcharge for shipping. I ship within 24 hrs of receipt of payment, I give positive feedback upon payment & I welcome PayPal. I get great feedback from happy customers. You all ought to run your own free standing retail outlet for 6 months & really learn how ugly customers can be if everything isn't just right. Been there, Done that.
[ edited by sanmar on Dec 12, 2002 09:38 AM ]
posted on December 11, 2002 11:20:20 PM new
Actually, most of us did pay attention. The point is that the main complaint was being "overcharged" on shipping. I don't think it is a valid complaint in that they knew and agreed to the shipping price before making a bid. It's not like they placed a bid, and then got the shipping price. I applaud them for taking responsibility for this, and I respect their decision not to do business with the company again. I would not want to either if I felt gouged. However, I still will never understand why people get upset if they pay $4 for shipping, and it is shipped for $1.06 - They assume priority mail, and get first class mail. There is ZERO difference in level of service, and unless the auction states the type of shipping, assumptions should not be made. I also don't understand how you can pay $5 more than actual shipping charges, and only realize after that you paid too much. Unless you are shipping a 40 pound item, $5 is a huge difference in what you paid, and what it cost to be shipped. The point is these problems can be cleared up BEFORE you place a bid...and yes, this is a tough room for buyers, since it is mostly sellers here. I also try to ship within 24 hours, try to keep shipping prices reasonable, and I have over 2100 unique positives and zero negs on my ebay account, so I must be doing something right as far as customer satisfaction goes....
posted on December 12, 2002 01:56:15 AM new
Hi, All!
<P>What an interesting combination of viewpoints--and attitudes--have been expressed here since I posted my 'perspective' several hours ago.
<P>fluffythewondercat:
You're welcome for the "sharing".
<P>Yes, on-line credit card payments are a convenience to the buyers--and an expense for the sellers. I realize that. Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. If they can't sell their items at a fair-to-both-parties price, perhaps another line of work, or product, would be more suitable. ???
<P>I wonder, though, do some sellers realize that buyers may have need for those 'conveniences'? A trip to the nearest town to me for money orders or cashier's checks is over 30 miles, and the 'convenience' of paying on-line is important to me. I suspect it may also be important to those with busy lives in far more populated areas.
<P>Pass on your auctions, fluffy? I do.
mlecher:
<I>And YOU know what the exact shipping charges should be because???<I>
<I>Exact</I>? No. Approximate? Yes.
<I>Because...</I>I have a pretty good idea what the items I bid on will weigh and how to use the USPS ship-rate site. On most auctions the sellers location is posted. I am also aware of the approximate size & weight packaging required to ship my items safely, not to mention that I do buy enough to be aware of the shipping fees previous sellers <I>have</I> paid. It really doesn't take a genius to approximate the weight of a plate, a tea set, or even a lamp and add extra ounces or pounds (and costs) for packaging materials.
Tomwiii:
<I>More whining pretzel-chokers P&M'ing about S&H, even when IT IS LISTED</I>
Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. Please re-read my post.
ahc3:
<I>I don't see how you can pay $5 more without knowing it. Maybe because I am a seller and have a good idea of postage costs, etc. - I don't know, but if I buy something, I basically know how much it weighs, and have a ballpark idea of how much it will cost to ship. If seller says $10 shipping and I think it weighs less than a pound, there is a very good chance I will skip that auction.</I>
Thanks for saying you, as a seller, have a good idea of postage costs. We buyers may have a pretty good idea of those costs, too. Especially if we are into shopping for particular items.
Let me clarify that particular comment in my original post. The extra $4.00 or $5.00 was the shipping total the seller charged for MULTIPLE wins, AFTER the bidding was closed. In other words, there wasn't much of a discount--as stated in their listing--for multiple buys, when it came to paying time. Those, fortunately, were on only two unique sellers and they were for small and under-priced items.
However, those sellers were willing to gamble on their item getting more bids. They didn't get the bids and my original bid stood the test of the week's run. I would have bought those items for more, and my proxy bid was considerably higher. Should the buyer pay for the seller's lost gamble? I guess what bothered me was the feeling that I paid for the seller's error in judgement--or poor luck/timing--with the higher ship fees. Right or wrong, it just didn't set well with me.
rarriffle, kiara, Linda_K & glenningvalle:
To the rest of you folks who understood the purpose of posting my viewpoint here, I thank you. Your comments and input are appreciated. Although I seldom post, I do come here often to read and learn from your discussions, and I find them to be quite valuable.
I do, however, wish your true seller IDs were included with your posts. There are some of you I would love to deal with!
posted on December 12, 2002 02:40:28 AM new
I am directing this at one spineless poster here who has copied and pasted a response to a feedback and he is playing little games to send certain messages.
Why don't you crawl out from under your momma's apron and slither back to your computer and admit to everyone here what you are really up to? Or do you have the guts?
Things happened and it was weeks ago. It's over. It's time to move on. Or are you so obsessed by it all you can't leave it alone?
Do me a favor. Walk over to a mirror and take a good, long, hard look at yourself, that's if your backbone will hold you up long enough to do so. Think of this word. Karma. And if you don't know what it means, look it up in the dictionary.
Here's another word. Gonads. Check to see if you've got any.
And Pat, this post is why most seller's don't disclose their ID's here because of the people that choose to cause trouble with auctions. Good luck with your future buys, most people on ebay and these message boards are good folks.
posted on December 12, 2002 04:46:50 AM newLooks like I need some lessons on posting here! How do you do the quotes in italics?
Pat:
To put in italics: start your line with [$i] and end with [$/i]. Don't use the lesser and greater than signs and OMIT the $ sign.
I understand your comment about shipping. I do charge a handling fee on mine for a couple of reasons and I've commented on this subject before. Just as you travel miles to get money orders, some of us travel miles to the post office, the store to get supplies such as bubble wrap, and I think the time we spent doing this is worth something at least. My handling fee is minimal. If you order from other .coms (as I have commented before) you are charged handling fees. Most don't tell you, but when I order a $9.99 CD and shipping is $7, you know it's not all in the postage.
I agree that there are sellers who charge excessive shipping costs. I've bought from some of them. However, most do state it in their auctions and that gives you the option to NOT buy. As for combining to save on shipping. Most sellers will do that. Sometimes things, especially if you are a high volume seller, can slip through the cracks. If that happens with me and a buyer emails me, I will refund the extra postage they paid. My goof - my cost. Selling on Ebay is a business and there are costs associated with that business. Sometimes a bit extra will be added to the postage as a handling fee and sometimes a seller just puts that cost into the price of the item. Either way, sellers cannot be expected to take hits from everyone wanting something for nothing. You won't see KMart or Walmart doing that.
I buy and sell on Ebay and I'd say 99.5% of the sellers are fair and honest people trying to scrape a living. The secret is to carefully read the sellers TOS and if you still have questions, contact them. Don't complain and neg AFTER the fact. And for crying out loud - pay the extra for insurance on breakable items.
