posted on December 12, 2002 06:02:34 AM new
Hi Pat1959 and all:
I totally agree with your observations, I have bought more than I sold on eBay, so I was fortunate enough to be exposed to both sides.
"The other reason for being on my Black List is the nonacceptance of On-line credit card payment. As I tend to buy a lot I prefer to pay through PayPal or eBay Payments so I can keep a record of my spending. I will, however, bid on auctions for that "just have to have it" item even if the seller does not provide on-line credit card payments."
I personally do not buy, from someone that is not willing to accept credit card payments or does not ship by USPS, unless they are bulky or heavy items, were it would be more economical to be shipped by UPS. The reason, is that I get the additional protection of the Credit Card company and the US Postal Inspectors, if I have the misfortunate of dealing with a Fraudulent Seller. Let me keep my fingers crossed, to date, I only had two bad experiences, with sellers. One didn't shipped in a timely manner (it was more than 30 days since seller received payment) I filed a claim with USPS and received my purchase quickly. The second had to do with unauthorized software, I was promptly given a refund, once the dealer know I would contact my credit card company. In neither of these situations I was burned. Most of my purchases were on the hundreds of Dollars, while I do small purchases sometimes.
When I am selling, I always accept Credit Cards over a certain amount and ship USPS, unless UPS is more economical for buyer (heavier and bulky items). I always insist on Tracking Number, since this way I have proof that it was shipped and when it was delivered. The small fee $0.45 to $0.55 is worth to the seller and buyer.
Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. If they can't sell their items at a fair-to-both-parties price, perhaps another line of work, or product, would be more suitable. ???
That sounds like a common sense idea, however the eBay culture created and pushed by eBay, does not make that possible. eBay Promotions, such as "Penny Day Sales, Discounted Listing fees for Under a Buck Listing with No Reserve," etc. Creates a culture of encouraging the seller to include the balance of their costs on the shipping fees.
Let me refer to an experience of a friend of my -- a Power Seller.
I was told that if the seller lists an item for $0.99 to take advantage of the "Penny Day Promotion" (that item normally sells at their shop for over $10.00) and the Priority Mail Fee $3.85 with Tracking Number $0.55, for a Grand Total of $4.30 actual mailing costs and only receives one bid, as the majority (60%) of listing today close with only one or two bid. Accepted PayPal and launch auctions using AuctionWatch, the auction costs are: $0.81 per that item during eBay's Promotion, (eBay LF $0.20, eBay FVF $0.05, AW LF $0.10, AW FVF $0.01 PayPal Fee $0.45) leaving the seller a net of $0.18, for their merchandise and time. When the promotion is over: regular eBay Listing Fee $0.30 FVF $0.05, AW LF $0.10, FVF $0.01 PayPal fee $0.45 leaving the seller a net of $0.08 for their merchandise and time. The seller accepted $5.29 as the Final Payment thru PayPal (Bid $0.99 plus actual shipping costs $4.30.) his net is $0.09, for a $10+ item.
I am with you, I don't understand why a seller would want to take advantages of the gimmicks of eBay, such as the ones mentioned above. I was amazed when I got a $100 item (this item sells at eBay on the $100 range) for $0.99 and the shipping costs were $15.00, actual postage paid was $4.30, the item lists new from the manufacturer at the $750 range.
I understand why some sellers will not accept PayPal for items less than $10.00 and some $25.00. I know of some that do not accept PayPal for amounts less than those stated above, since the fees as a percentage of the money received are exorbitant.
However, those sellers were willing to gamble on their item getting more bids. They didn't get the bids and my original bid stood the test of the week's run. I would have bought those items for more, and my proxy bid was considerably higher. Should the buyer pay for the seller's lost gamble? I guess what bothered me was the feeling that I paid for the seller's error in judgment--or poor luck/timing--with the higher ship fees. Right or wrong, it just didn't set well with me.
I use to feel that way, at the beginning, and for a long time after that. I finally learned the eBay culture and mentality, and I could live with that, as long as the total price (bid plus shipping, sales taxes if applicable) was on the range I wanted to pay.
When I look at an item, I look at the totality. That is, the bid price plus the stated shipping charges and sales taxes if applicable, if that is a good buy and I need the item, fine I will bid on it. I also take in consideration what other dealers (both on eBay and out of eBay) are willing to sell the exact item.
I believe that most sellers are happy to hear your experiences. The things that make a seller more desirable to a buyer than others.
[ edited by USMarines on Dec 12, 2002 06:07 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2002 06:33:32 AM new
A few months ago I posted asking if maybe I was too picky to be a Buyer on eBay.
I think it all boils down to the K-Mart / Neiman Marcus ideas.
When you enter retail stores or .com sites, you can pretty much tell who you are buying from. On eBay it is not as clear. The 'type' of store many eBay sellers would open (none at AW, of course ) are likely to be in low rent districts with cracked windows, dust on the shelves & trashed carpeting. IOW, places you wouldn't go into or, if you dared, you would need to disinfect yourself upon exiting. Those are the sellers we need to steer clear of, if we can take off their masks.
fluffy is very clear that she is running a volume driven clearance center. If it works for her & her bidders, more power to the cat, no? So she runs a warehouse. There is obvoiusly a demand for it.
(yes, mark it down, I have now agreed with fluffy twice. I'm as shocked as you are)
She has no interest in bidders that take up her time or anything she does not get paid for monetarily.
For her business, that is a good plan.
I run more of a Bloomingdales Clearance Center. No bells, few whistles. I've got the goods, you know the quality, I ship quickly & safely, focus is on repeat customer satisfaction. Friendly service, prompt responses, no handling charges, convenient payment methods.
Works for me.
Many sell as a hobby to have fun, find new friends, and make a little cash. As a seller, I've run into several of these type Buyers who want to share their happiness and enthusiasm. It's a nice breath of fresh air, time allowing. Sellers who transact this way find it very fulfilling, again, more power to them as well.
Finally, there are sellers that have no right whatsoever to be on eBay or interacting with the public in general.
There is room for everyone except the sellers who deceive bidders and rip them off. STATED s & h is NOT an overcharge. Really beating a dead horse on that one.
I, too, wish there were a *safe* way to share selling ID's here. There are many of you I would welcome to my auctions & several I would buy from.
I learned ages ago that there are too many spiteful people on AW for that to be an option
posted on December 12, 2002 06:44:18 AM new
some sellers just cant afford to accept credit card even via paypal,as their items are low priced.
or some have a gripe with paypal and do not want to deal with paypal.or worse their accounts have been locked up by paypal.
so read the terms of sales before bidding is very important on ebay.
posted on December 12, 2002 07:06:49 AM new
Robert Smithson:
Yes, that was wrong. Its retaliatory ffedback, right. 'course the sellers here claim that retaliatory feedback is ok for sellers (never for buyers!), since the buyer was not happy with transaction.
For the original poster, as for shipping fees, take a look at any online outlet. If shipping is not free, it's always at least $3-4. Why should eBay be different?
posted on December 12, 2002 07:24:28 AM new
In the last 24 hours, I've been doing a lot of Web research on customer service issues, focusing on the "customer is always right" mantra.
Came up with some interesting viewpoints that I think are very pertinent to eBay selling.
One author suggests ranking your customers into categories according to their attributes. Some of those attributes might be:
1) Pays promptly.
2) Is businesslike, polite or friendly.
3) Buys regularly.
4) Understands you need to benefit from transaction, NOT simply interested in carving out a discount.
5) Values what you do.
6) Communicates.
When I look back at my customer base, I remember certain customers, like Adele, who met criteria 2-5 but consistently paid two months late with no communication. Finally, I told her she could no longer bid, but that was after six iterations. I could have saved time and effort by easing her out sooner.
Another customer, Barbara, meets 1, 5 and 6, but seems offended that she has to pay at all, and only buys when she can get it for pennies. After several years of penny purchases, she finally sent a grudging email complaining about other eBay sellers and admitting that I might not be so bad after all. I should cut her loose. She doesn't add any value to the business.
Customer Charlotte is a keeper. She shines in attributes 1-5, though communication is not her strong suit. Still, we can work with her on that: she's spent nearly $10,000 with us this year.
Ranking your customers is just one way of looking at the vendor/customer relationship. There are lots of others. Sellers should decide what works for them.
posted on December 12, 2002 07:24:40 AM new
Pat....
I sell way more that I purchase on Ebay. And I for one appreciate you comments. I too post my shipping cost up front, with the exception of items weighing over 20 pounds.
Without knowing a buyers zip it is impossible to accurately determine the true cost. On these heavy items I do charge (and state it in the TOS) a $1.25 handling fee.
Yes the $1.25 is additional profit to me, but that profit is offset because I have to drive 20 miles to the UPS office.
I request anyone bidding on these heavy items to email me their zip so I can quote a shipping charge.
Not everyone selling on Ebay is out to rip a buyer off.
When purchasing items, I weigh shipping fees and the items worth (to me) to determine if it is truely of value to me. If the shipping fee seems exorbitant I will not purchase the item.
posted on December 12, 2002 09:02:58 AM new
I was adding $1.00 handling and have recently increased that to $1.50.
I state S&H clearly in my ad with the total.
I am sure I could sell more items if I only charged $3.85, but it just wouldn't be worth my time after paying all fees, taking time to package and go to the post office with my items.
I tried it both ways. Even ran $1.00 auctions one week to see if I could increase my sell-through rate. I did---I sold 50% of the 10 items I listed. But, lost money as the total bids came to less than I paid for item and fees for listings.
I won't do that again. As far as making a "profit" from shipping.
I will never ever understand why buyers do not mind the post office making a profit but absolutely begrudge seller's on Ebay even an extra quarter!
You receive the item in the same amount of time, it is carefully packaged, and it should make no difference to you who gets the money. You agree to $5.00 or whatever shipping and if you receive it in a timely and safe manner then you got what you paid for!
And, I have never had a complaint from a customer regarding shipping fees! I know I will someday, but I will just have to deal with that. I sell fragile paper items that could be shipped for $1.00 or less. I ship them in a priority box with packaging, and ship for $5.00. Most other sellers in my category ship for $6.50 an item.
I do combine items, I do ship priority, and I do ship quickly and always state the fees up front.
Edited to add: These are not postcards, these are large lobby cards and movie posters. My postcards I ship for $1.00 (shipped first class) and my vinyl records I ship for $3.00 to $6.00 media mail as I usually group them from 3 to 6 per artist.
posted on December 12, 2002 09:28:32 AM newTake a good hard look at who you idolize. I take it that comment is directed at me.
Those who know me, know that I'm not the kind of person to idolize anyone.
You have a very bent perspective of something that happened many weeks ago and you can't drop it. You are going about things in a very devious way because of your obsession with it and you don't have the guts to tell people on this board what you are really doing.
My advice to you is to just move on and don't involve yourself with this any further. I would feel like this if you did this to any other person on or off this board.
posted on December 12, 2002 09:54:43 AM newI would feel like this if you did this to any other person on or off this board.
I doubt it...
However Kiara by "pointing" at the offending posts, you yourself are bringing attention to something that happend "weeks" ago.
Why don't you just ignore it and move on?
If you didn't bring it up,I doubt few here would of even noticed.
posted on December 12, 2002 10:25:13 AM new
twelvepole you can doubt what you want, but I would also feel like this if someone was doing this to you in the same situation.
Why don't you just ignore it and move on?
Because it has been going on for weeks with the deliberate intent to screw with someone and the person doing it doesn't have the guts to admit to others what he is doing.
I have been on AW almost since its conception and I am not here to cause trouble for others. My belief is that if someone on a message board wants to play games to mess with others it should be exposed.
I say what I feel, like it or not. That's one of the main reasons I don't expose my buyer or seller ID's here, there are way too many whackjobs behind the scenes and they choose their victims.
posted on December 12, 2002 10:34:37 AM new
I have to agree Kiara, I will not reveal my ebay info here either - I used to post under a different ID some time back, and then someone threatened to bid in all my auctions, and not pay and give negative feedback. There are too many whackjobs (and too many people with time on their hand) to reveal personal info here. It's really too bad, because most of the people seem pretty nice, but I won't go down that road again.
posted on December 12, 2002 10:41:47 AM new
Well I will just let you and "whoever" continue on your private posting way...
Seems to me this person really is getting the effect they wanted... LOL
Anyway... some good points here about what a buyer expects, but also Fluffy has raised some good points about not bending in half for buyers... one thing I have learned on eBay: if you don't buy, someone else will...
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Dec 12, 2002 10:44 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2002 11:06:52 AM new
Is it the inevitable fate of a thread to degenerate into personal attacks, backbiting, or petty political games?
I guess it is if that's what most people want. Sad, really. Another opportunity wasted.
posted on December 12, 2002 11:15:23 AM new
Back on track. I understand what you are saying about some customers, fluffythewondercat.
I consider them "high maintenance" for the time they spend and the money I am getting from them. Over the years I have had them in my RL store and I prefer if they don't come back.
Anyone that buys and sells on ebay will see the good and bad in everything. But like I previously said, most people are good.
posted on December 12, 2002 11:33:56 AM new
mlecher:
And YOU know what the exact shipping charges should be because???
<I>Exact</I>? No. Approximate? Yes.
<I>Because...</I>I have a pretty good idea what the items I bid on will weigh and how to use the USPS ship-rate site. On most auctions the sellers location is posted. I am also aware of the approximate size & weight packaging required to ship my items safely, not to mention that I do buy enough to be aware of the shipping fees previous sellers <I>have</I> paid. It really doesn't take a genius to approximate the weight of a plate, a tea set, or even a lamp and add extra ounces or pounds (and costs) for packaging materials.
____________________________________________
I GUARANTEE You haven't got a clue! You are basing YOUR estimations on YOUR experience and YOUR situations, aren't you. Well, the world neither revolves around you nor do you rule it. THEIR situation and THEIR experiences may be different and pricier. I guess you are begrudging the parapeligic who has to hire a courier service to deliver his packages to the Post Office. Or cursing the remote sellers for whom a trip to the shipping point is an all day job.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 12, 2002 11:36 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2002 11:47:13 AM new
I would like a heartfelt apology from kiara, if she has the courage to do so. These personal attacks are very distrubing and will not be tolerated by AW.
Is it the inevitable fate of a thread to degenerate into personal attacks, backbiting, or petty political games?
I guess it is if that's what most people want. Sad, really. Another opportunity wasted.
posted on December 12, 2002 01:29:53 PM new
kiara: Most people are basically good, I agree. But even good people can be lousy customers.
I think a big part of it is cultural. The consumer-rights movement twenty years ago was all about getting merchants to do more for their customers, and how to make them comply with one's wishes. I don't recall ever seeing a consumer reporter or popular author (like Ralph Nader) talking about the responsibilities of the consumer instead of their rights. Surely a consumer should be expected to conduct their end of the transaction in a rational business-like fashion. But what we have now are several generations of spoiled brats who believe they are to be treated like royalty no matter what tantrum they throw. And historically CS staff has been trained to cater to such children in adults' clothing. The one word they must never use is "No". It's remarkably similar to negotiating with a hostage-taker.
There are signs, however, that this situation is starting to turn around.
The airlines, freed from traditional customer service appeasement techniques by the horrific events of 9/11, now eject verbally-abusive passengers. Push 'em far enough during the flight and you'll be met by a U.S. marshal on arrival.
Some studies now show that companies that support the employee in customer disputes come out ahead in the long run. Employees are confident and more inclined to go the extra mile when they know management won't undercut them because Mrs. Gottrocks is demanding something for nothing.
posted on December 12, 2002 02:08:49 PM new
If I don't agree with the shipping cost I don't bid, that just isn't an issue with me.I get a bit bent with Sellers who takes weeks to ship something and I've had alot of that lately.As far my paying preference,I prefer Sellers who take Paypal,but if they want Money Order only it doesn't stop me from buying. Sometimes you have to give a little to get what you want. As far as a negative feedback to the Seller,you really got to tee me off to get that.
posted on December 12, 2002 02:26:11 PM new
A few years ago I started selling some lower priced items in my store thinking that I would attract more customers.
I found that I attracted customers who had high expectations when they weren't spending the extra money for the frills like fancier gift boxes, gift wrapping, etc. Many of these were the most demanding with the most complaints and also had a habit of returning items (slightly used and abused).
So now I am changing direction so I can rid myself of this type of customer. They aren't worth my time for the money they spend.
I have heard that even Walmart keeps records now of how often people return things if they become "problem customers" and they are put on a list.
posted on December 12, 2002 08:58:32 PM new
I still believe in ebay of years past.. where you got a deal, great service and no handling fee's. That; still the way I do it. Set a fair price let the bidding begin (or not) contact all the buyers, ship fast and at cost= repeat customers
I only do online payments unless it is a must have, I only pay actual costs for shipping so yes I hardly ever bid anymore.. too many greedy people selling junk.
I always bought most christmas and other gifts on ebay but this year it was hard to find decent stuff at a fair price, I hate malls but that's were I am going, looks like alot of others did the same.
posted on December 12, 2002 09:31:03 PM new
But, in the old Ebay, we could count on bidding wars on virtually everything. Sniping was not discovered yet and people would run up the bids high enough to make a good profit.
If I have something someone wants, and I start it at a competitive bid, they will look. Then, when they see I add $1 for handling they can decide if they really want it or not. And, often, more than 1 will look and I will still get several bids even if they do all come in at the end of the auction.
If I start it $1.00 higher, it just means nobody even looks!
posted on December 12, 2002 09:33:26 PM new
[i] I have heard that even Walmart keeps records now of how often people return things if they become "problem customers" and they are
put on a list.[/i]
I know for a fact that department stores and upscale mail order clothiers have been doing this for a long time. At the Horchow Collection, ordertakers simply say, "Perhaps you'd better not order, since our items never seem to suit you."
I worked once with a secretary who had the most fantastic wardrobe. I complimented her on it once and she told me about her Macy's shopping addiction. She returned clothing so often that finally she was banned from using a Macy's card there. (They didn't take major credit cards then.)
Back when I actually accepted returns on eBay auction items, I had a three strikes rule: three returns and you're banned.
posted on December 12, 2002 10:25:03 PM new
I can understand why you wouldn't accept returns on jewelry. I have sold it for years and I'm amazed what people can do to it in very little time.
I think more stores are bringing in stock, upping the price and then lowering it to make it look like a bargain sale. All sales are final so they don't have to deal with returned merchandise.
posted on December 12, 2002 11:49:03 PM new
*scratches head*
SO let me get this straight -- a buyer, a customer, someone who pays our bills, puts food on the table, pays the car note, insurance, funds the retirement (For some of us) or in other cases, simply brings in extra money..........
........the customer who IMHO is a typical customer, based on my own dealings with customers.........says they prefer sellers who accept online credit card payments -- and people are telling here to ignore their auctions, saying they won't take online payments, etc.
HUH?!
I don't care if you have a 100% sell through rate, doing something that expands your base of potential customers is good for business. It could mean more bids per item, more sales via second chance sales, more repeat buyers, buyers who will say:
"Hey, I missed the auction, do you have any more to sell?"
It could mean you could list MORE stuff, etc, etc.
Don't put it all on Fraud either -- there are ways to protect one's self against fraud. For instance, if you only ship to confirmed addresses and always use tracking numbers, the credit isn't stolen, since no one would steal a card and send it to that card holders address ALSO, the customer can't file a chargeback on an item they have in their possession, that you can prove was delivered to them.
Sure, there are people who will find a way around this, BUT, your fraud exposure is small and profit potential is significant.
SO, I ask why are people whining about what a customer is requesting instead of finding a way to make the customer happy AND make money?
Here's a newsflash: It costs money to MAKE money, if the fees involved with an item make it unprofitable, then stop selling it, should be obvious to anyone with a calculator -- find something to sell that's profitable.
No wonder people are deciding to quit selling on eBay and/or complaining about luke warm sales.
posted on December 13, 2002 12:01:26 AM new
After 28 years in retail and several Ebay years I have found this. There are a certain amount of customers that the seller can't afford to have. I, as a seller, have only a certain amount of time and I do not have the time to quibble with a customer because they might have paid a buck to much in shipping. There are many good buyers who are glad to get a "good deal" on Ebay and don't lay awake at night and worry how to get that dollar back from that "nasty seller" that screwed them over.
posted on December 13, 2002 12:09:37 AM new
I do appreciate hearing a buyer's perspective.
Regarding online payments. My days of Paypal are long over. I had a buyer try to scam me for a $15 item. I know his claim of non-receipt was bogus, because he refused to sign an insurance claim and was later booted from eBay for shilling. But he did manage to get my Paypal account locked up for about three months.
For low-price items, it isn't worth the hassle of going to the post office, filling out forms, paying extra for delivery confirmation, etc. For a $5 item? I can send a replacement no problem, but I can't put my business in the hands of Paypal.
Either I provide proof of shipping for every $5 item I sell, or run the risk of Paypal shutting down my business So, no. Get a checkbook, send cash, get a money order at the liquor store, or pass.
I can tell you, though, that chances are the item you buy from another seller will be more expensive, and of lower quality.
Handling fees is IMO a non-issue. My ads state a fixed shipping/handling fee. I did have one winner about a week ago. She won an item for $20 bucks that usually sells for around $50. In her first email she railed about my exhorbitant handling fee. She figured it would cost me $4 to ship. I explained that $12 is the ACTUAL postage, with no handling fee (on this particular item).
Unfortunately, this buyer is a nightmare in the making. She is emailing me every day about the item. She needs it for a birthday this weekend. I got her check, it was mailed exactly a week ago, and I will ship her item tomorrow. But it still won't arrive in time. She'll blame me for this too, no doubt.
I will say that for more expensive items, I do provide more better customer service. This makes sense to me. I also work in a retail store. I won't spend 1/2 hour selling someone a candy bar. That is not efficient.
I've had at least 30,000 sales on eBay. From $1 to over $1,000. I'm pretty much set in my ways. I believe sales is a two-way street.
Pat, you said, Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. Sorry, that route doesn't work. Not only does it kill sales, but handling fees are just that: handling fees. You might as well suggest that cell phone providers add the activation fee to the cost of the phone. It doesn't work that way.
Thanks again for your input. I did lower handling fees (and opening bids) recently, so you might still consider my auctions. LOL
posted on December 13, 2002 06:11:28 AM new
Pat, you said, Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. Sorry, that route doesn't work. Not only does it kill sales, but handling fees are just that: handling fees.
Plus only eBay profits from that, neither the buyer nor the seller get anything by including expenses in the bids.....
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on December 13, 2002 06:36:37 AM new
>>Pat, you said, Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. Sorry, that route doesn't work. Not only does it kill sales, but handling fees are just that: handling fees. <<
*scratches head* Umm, well my opening bid takes into account fees, expenses and the cost of the product. E.g. My opening bid is the minimum profit I'm willing to accept after all my expenses are paid.
Works for me just fine -- if I can't make that minimum margin with X opening bid, I won't sell that product.
>>Plus only eBay profits from that, neither the buyer nor the seller get anything by including expenses in the bids.....<<
Well it seems that the seller benefits by making a profit -- and as long as my margins are within the range I want them to be, I don't care if eBay profits.
The buyer has to pay a higher price, yes, but the seller doesn't end up selling an item for a loss or barely over a loss -- meaning that the seller will be around longer, which could benefit the buyer.
Best Regards,
Markham
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
) are likely to be in low rent districts with cracked windows, dust on the shelves & trashed carpeting. IOW, places you wouldn't go into or, if you dared, you would need to disinfect yourself upon exiting. Those are the sellers we need to steer clear of, if we can take off their masks.
