posted on December 13, 2002 07:38:46 AM new
Do the math....
A bidder is only willing to bid $11.00 on an item..
Seller A: List opening bid a $9.95 with $1.00 S&H. Bidder wins at 9.95, pays 10.95. ebay collects fees on ONLY 9.95.
Seller B: List at 10.95 by including shipping and handling. Bidder wins at 10.95. Seller pays eBay fees on 10.95 listing and FVF
Seller C: list at 9.99 and "hopes" it is bid up enough to cover S & H. He loses all around. If it is not bid up, S&H kills him. If it is bid up, eBay get a portion of his S&H
If this is not simple enough for you to understand, then it is no wonder eBay makes millions while sellers suffer and are unable to get ahead...just general lack of common business sense and Math skills.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 13, 2002 07:40 AM ]
posted on December 13, 2002 07:47:48 AM new*scratches head* Umm, well my opening bid takes into account fees, expenses and the cost of the product. E.g. My opening bid is the minimum profit I'm willing to accept after all my expenses are paid. Works for me just fine -- if I can't make that minimum margin with X opening bid, I won't sell that product.
That's a good outlook. But if you see three similar items, one at $5, another at $5, and another at $8, which will you click on first? Be honest. Bottom line, handling fees are allowed by eBay.
However, I have run across handling fees which I feel are exhorbitant. Electronics liquidators charging $40 to ship a refurbished camera. No, I personally would not bid on those auctions.
Different types of items require different selling strategies. Plenty of people are willing to pay the price, regardless of whether it is in the opening bid, or handling fees. Evidence the $1 CD-ROMs w/ $10 handling fee. They seem to sell pretty well.
posted on December 13, 2002 08:10:49 AM new
[i]SO let me get this straight -- a buyer, a customer, someone who pays our bills, puts food on the table, pays the car note, insurance,funds the retirement (For some of us) or in other cases, simply brings in extra money..........
........the customer who IMHO is a typical customer, based on my own dealings with customers.........says they prefer sellers who accept online credit card payments -- and people are telling here to ignore their auctions, saying they won't take online payments, etc.
HUH?!
[/i]
All of which simply indicates you're unwilling to consider anything other than conventional wisdom. Pity.
There's a ton of money being lost on eBay by sellers who know nothing but "the customer is always right".
I am sorry for your inexperience and I am sorry that I couldn't make my ideas more accessible to you. However, until you've had years of experience running a profitable (TRULY profitable) eBay enterprise, I'm afraid I'm just going to shrug and move on to the next response.
Results speak louder than words. I pull down $52,000 a year in salary from my eBay business, the business is growing, and the biggest problem I have is an inability to find enough suitable merchandise. There is absolutely no doubt that I can sell it at a profit (TRUE profit) on eBay. That has been proven.
The goal is $250,000 a year, so solving the supply problem is tops on my list.
This year I have run about 1500 auctions any given month. I hope to double that in 2003.
posted on December 13, 2002 08:50:49 AM new
It occurs to me, on further reflection, that anyone who is firmly convinced I am full of fecal matter has an outstanding opportunity.
You already know I run jewelry auctions (for the most part) and that I run no-reserve auctions. If I am so wrong in everything I do and everything I believe, put me out of business by your superior sales techniques. How hard could it be, right?
If I am such a lousy seller, steal my customers. Go ahead, take my bottomfeeders and give them caviar service for their 99 cent purchase.
posted on December 13, 2002 09:20:45 AM new
Hi mlecher and everyone:
Your are right to the point, here are the results of scenery you outlined.
Assuming that seller accepts PayPal for the convenience of seller and buyer and launches auctions at AuctionWatch. Assuming father that seller will send purchase by Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope $3.85 the following examples will cause the following results and fees:
Seller A: List opening bid a $9.95 with $1.00 S&H. Bidder wins at 9.95, pays 10.95. eBay collects fees on ONLY 9.95. Seller will receive $14.80.
eBay Listing Fee (LF) $0.30, Final Value Fee (FVF) $0.52, Total Fees eBay $0.82; PayPal Fees ($0.30 + $0.42) $0.72, Auction Watch LF $0.10, FVF $0.10, Total AW fees $0.20. Grand Total Fees $1.74. or 9.5% of Money Received. Net $13.06 before USPS fee of $3.85. Net $9.21.
Seller B: List at 10.95 by including shipping and handling. Bidder wins at 10.95. Seller pays eBay fees on 10.95 listing and FVF. Seller will receive $14.80
eBay Listing Fee (LF) $0.55, Final Value Fee (FVF) $0.53, Total Fees eBay $1.08; PayPal Fees ($0.30 + $0.42) $0.72, Auction Watch LF $0.10, FVF $0.11, Total AW fees $0.21. Grand Total Fees $2.01. or 13.6% of Money Received. Net before postage cost $12.79, Net After postage $8.94.
Seller C: list at 9.99 and "hopes" it is bid up enough to cover S & H. He loses all around. If it is not bid up, S&H kills him. If it is bid up, eBay get a portion of his S&H. Money Received $13.84.
eBay Listing Fee (LF) $0.30, Final Value Fee (FVF) $0.52, Total Fees eBay $0.82; PayPal Fees ($0.30 + $0.40) $0.70, Auction Watch LF $0.10, FVF $0.10, Total AW fees $0.20. Grand Total Fees $1.72. or 12.4% of Sale Price. Net before postage costs $12.12. Net After Postage $8.27.
From the examples above, it is not only apparent that eBay allows Handling costs, it encourages them. See situation "Seller A." That is the eBay culture, formulated and established by eBay. You will notice that eBay actually penalizes Seller B with higher Fees. The same happens at PayPal, to receive the additional postage of $3.85 costs $0.11. actually you only receive $3.74 to pay $3.85 postage.
In order to play a game and win, you must know the rules. These are the present rules and reality at eBay.
I agree, that an informed buyer looks at the totality, that is Bid Amount, Shipping and Handling Costs and Sales Taxes if applicable. We cannot assume that buyers are naive or stupid. They are pretty smart, they have the money to purchase the wares of the seller!
The seller is also very smart, if one searches eBay, one find very few seller offering "Actual Shipping Costs," that usually happens on very heavy or bulky items, were the shipping cost are already high.
posted on December 13, 2002 11:08:40 AM new
Pat1959
You got it . Just take out the $ sign.
fluffythewondercat
Just make sure you put in the [$i] text[/$]. Front and back with no break in the sentence.
If there is you have to do it again.
SO let me get this straight a buyer, a customer, someone who pays our bills, puts food on the table, pays the car note, insurance,funds the retirement (For some of us) or in other cases, simply brings in extra money .the customer who IMHO is a typical customer, based on my own dealings with customers.says they prefer sellers who accept online credit card payments and people are telling here to ignore their auctions, saying they won't take online payments, etc. HUH?
posted on December 13, 2002 11:10:42 AM new
Oh, well. Looks like I still haven't mastered that one. Se la vi!
WOW!!!
I had no idea my comments would open such a can of worms---AND A TREASURE-TROVE OF GEMS!
Let's get the negs out of the way first...
Let's see... It's been suggested that I must be psychic to have any idea about the realistic shipping fees I *should* be charged for the items I buy regularly; GUARANTEED, by the same poster, that I "haven't got a clue! You are basing YOUR estimations on YOUR experience and YOUR situations, aren't you."
Hmmm... That comment leaves me totally befuddled.
____________________________________
Another posts:
"Puleeeeze list your eBay buyer-name so I can put you on MY $$$T-list More whining pretzel-chokers P&M'ing about S&H, even when IT IS LISTED Buy from AMAZON & p$$$ at them."
This poster obviously did not read what I said, and only reacted to what was in his/her own head.
Let me say simply that *attitude*--positive or negative--comes through strong and clear to those of us who frequent you sellers. When I encounter a negative attitude in a listing I back out REAL fast! As Fluffy has pointed out, there are just some folks not worth wasting one's time on---and that includes some sellers! Their fear of being "ripped-off" shines through like a flashing red warning light!
____________________________________
"...this post is why most seller's don't disclose their ID's here..."
Now I understand...
____________________________________
That done, let's deal with the productive and positive aspects of this thread...
"I think it all boils down to the K-Mart / Neiman Marcus ideas. When you enter retail stores or .com sites, you can pretty much tell who you are buying from.On eBay it is not as clear... I run more of a Bloomingdales Clearance Center. No bells, few whistles. I've got the goods, you know the quality, I ship quickly & safely, focus is on repeat customer satisfaction. Friendly service, prompt responses, no handling charges, convenient payment methods. Works for me."
"On eBay it is not as clear..."
Not so clear...? Perhaps, but there are unconscious (?) signs in almost every listing that clues a buyer to the over-all customer relations/attitude one can expect. Has the seller asked him/herself what the BUYER wants/needs to know about the product offered? If s/he has, then the answers are incorporated in the listing description and we, the buyers, do not have to click the *ask seller a question* link.
Translated: We do not have to waste your precious time---or ours!
What would we buyers like to know? DETAILS!!!
What is it made of?
How old is it?
Who designed it?
Who manufactured it?
Is it in its original packaging?
Are there signs of wear? How much? What kind?
Is it complete? Are all the pieces included?
Is it hard to find? (No BS, please. Some of us buyers already know.)
What is its book value? (Ditto above)
How much does it weigh?
Measurements? (Will it fit on my shelf? In the nook?
The human touch always helps...and provenance, where applicable.
Did it belong to someone special?
Evokes a sense of a specific era?
Did you acquire it in an amusing way?
PHOTOS! Especially on unique items!
How it will be packed for shipping is a nice addition to the description.
And, of course, the shipping and handling costs involved.
And, if you really want to be up-front with intelligent buyers, include your ZIP in the location option when listing. We can calculate the *approximate* shipping fees for ourselves.
Agreed, this kind of listing takes a little longer to create. But does it take any longer--for the extra dollars--a crisp, concise description will benefit the seller when all factors are weighed?
____________________________________
Shipping & Handling Fees:
As I stated in my original post, I have NO objection to REASONABLE handling fees. I DO object to a $4.00 or $5.00 EXTRA charge for a small, fragile item tossed into a bubble envelope and shipped regular mail for $1.96 actual shipping cost (Total: $7.04 charge for a shipment of this sort), or a similar over-actual shipping charge for several items stuffed (unprotected) into an ex-food box from the grocery store with hand-and-product-blackening newspaper cushioning.
How much is the seller willing to reimburse ME for MY time to clean and restore the integrity of the product?
Well-cushioned wraps with bubbles or foam-bits protection in a larger box for added security? NO objection. These cost the seller $$$...and it saves me time=$$$. A fair trade-off, IMO.
And last but not least, payment options. For personal reasons, Money Orders and Cashier's Checks are a difficult option for me, and I like to get the seller paid ASAP. NOT because I need the product "yesterday", but because I do buy a lot and an un-paid account hanging around until I can get a MO is not in my game-plan. Many sellers no longer accept personal checks (which I understand). Someone suggested I send cash. YOU MUST HAVE BEEN KIDDING?!
posted on December 13, 2002 11:26:12 AM new
I've noticed that many of the new sellers won't list S/H in the auctions.
For example: I was looking for a particular book that is sold out nearly everywhere. Most of the ones on Ebay are listed at $19.99 with a BIN of $24.99, $29.99, etc. Then I come across a seller (145) rating that is offering a BIN of $17.99~less than most of the starting bids. I almost had the impulse to buy it but decided to check out s/h. None listed. I email the seller asking the shipping method and cost. No reply. Then I check his feedback. Several negatives for "overcharging shipping". That was my red flag.
If someone isn't willing to notify a bidder up front, that says to me that they are going to gauge(sp?) you after you have bid. This holds the bidder hostage to the "contract" and allows the seller to charge whatever they want or give a negative for backing out of the deal. I'm glad I did my homework on this one and it was a good lesson to ALWAYS ask about s/h PRIOR to bidding!
I haven't bought much lately but I always look for s/h and add it into the current bid. This gives me an idea of what the item will cost if I bid and more times than not I will pass.
posted on December 13, 2002 12:11:39 PM newLet's see... It's been suggested that I must be psychic to have any idea about the realistic shipping fees I *should* be charged for the items I buy regularly; GUARANTEED, by the same poster, that I "haven't got a clue! You are basing YOUR estimations on YOUR experience and YOUR situations, aren't you."
Hmmm... That comment leaves me totally befuddled.
Hmmmm...I will have to make real simple for you....
See Dick
See Dick buy Product
See Dick buy Product in the store
See Dick buy Product in the store next to the manufacturing plant
Now See Jane
See Jane buy Product
See Jane buy Product in the store
See Jane buy Product in the store across the State
Why golly me!
The product cost Jane more!
Why?!?
Must be because her store is a lousy seller.
She should P & M loudly!
Wait a minute!
Maybe their shipping and handling costs are more?
Oh MY, that is why hers cost more.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on December 13, 2002 12:37:15 PM new
Sometimes I think that some of sellers that refuse to list a s/h on a simple book or similar item and won't answer emails about are going to set the s/h by how much the item actually goes for at auction are going to play it by ear how much they charge. If they did poorly on the auction they may try to make some extra profit on a extra large s/h but if they did very well on the auction item then they may charge a reasonable and fair s/h. By not listing the s/h or commiting to a price in an email they have some flexibilty.
posted on December 13, 2002 01:48:21 PM new
WHOOPPEE! Think I got it!
Fluffy:
I agree with you that the customer is NOT always right......
As some of you already know, I started as a seller back in the "good-old-days" when listing fees were 10 cents, Pongo was the only available image-hosting service, when AW (and like services) was not even a 'gleam in someone's eye', when the eBay chat room was a true community of helping individuals...
Health challenges terminated my selling on eBay, and other auction sites, two years ago. Now getting back on my feet (literally) I am feeding my eBay addiction as a buyer. I have found alternate outlets for products I buy and, with the help of loved-ones, I can at least run the business again.
SO...Fluffy, experience teaches, and I agree with you on this issue.
Then and now, there are customers who are just not worth the extra effort it takes to satisfy their every whim. We give the best we have to offer at the time, but those FEW will just not be satisfied. Troubles with their hubbies, kids, in their personal life--who knows--and we, as faceless sellers, became/become their kicking-post. We see expressions of that right here on this thread. They simply are not worth the time it takes to deal with, and the addition of the Block Bidder option must be a true blessing for you sellers. Were it an option when I was selling I certainly would have used it on a few (VERY few, fortunately) occasions.
However, I DO believe there are things we can do, as sellers and professional individuals, to curtail some of the problems that may arise. Many of those have been covered--intelligently, I believe--by most of you sellers.
I believed then--and now--that honesty is the best policy when dealing with any seller or buyer. Recently one of my accounts paid me twice. Did I refund the payment? YOU BET I DID! The $$$ I would have gained by keeping it would be nowhere near what this account will be worth to me over the life of our business relationship. This customer, as long as I maintain my standards and fair pricing, will return time-and-time again...to the benefit of us BOTH.
Does this apply to eBay sales where customers do not always return? Were I a seller now, I certainly would not want to gamble on losing even one quick-pay, reasonable buyer. Even if the initial purchase is a low-priced item, that buyer is likely to return--if satisfied with the product and service--and has the potential of becoming a good, consistent buyer for much higher-priced items.
Bottom line: I think TRUST has become a very real factor in shopping on eBay. With a new-to-me seller, I buy small the first time. I admit it! If the service is there and the quality is acceptable, they have earned a good buyer. If not? Well, my original post said it all.
____________________________________
There are so many of you I want to respond to. Here are a few...
Special Thanks to:
Fluffythecat: 1) Pays promptly. 2) Is businesslike, polite or friendly. 3) Buys regularly. 4) Understands you need to benefit from transaction, NOT simply interested in carving out a discount. 5) Values what you do. 6) Communicates.
A great check-list for evaluating a customer. Direct and to-the-point! Couldn't have said it better!
USMarines:
For the insightful posting on costs/profits breakdown. Should I ever decide to sell on eBay again, these points will be carefully weighed.
kiara: A few years ago I started selling some lower priced items in my store thinking that I would attract more customers...
Does that work for you--positively--on eBay? When I was an eBay seller it worked well for me. My customers returned as often as not and I benefitted from the initial (quality) low-priced items I sold...
As a buyer, it now works ON me!
lindajean:
On bidding wars and sniping:
I snipe a lot. There is a bidding war going on behind the scenes with snipers as well as open bidders. One has to know the competition in buying--just as in selling. Yes, I study my competition when buying, and have a pretty good idea what will beat their high bid.
I snipe because I have "shadows" who follow my viewable bids. If I DON'T really want something, I bid openly. If I DO want something, I snipe. And I snipe high. If my snipe fails, I've bumped the winning bid for the seller. If my bid wins, I've managed to get an item fairly and, hopefully, both the seller and I are happy.
pretegra345 "Hey, I missed the auction, do you have any more to sell?"
I'm one of those buyers, P. If I find something in completed auctions that I missed and it didn't sell, and I don't find it re-listed by that seller, I will contact the seller and make an offer. If it is re-listed, I will, of course, go through the same bidding process without contacting the seller.
If they are consistent sellers of one product line that I collect and was out-bid on, I will ask if they have extras they can include with my winning bids at the closing bid price of that particular item. In several cases their working with me has many-times multiplied the original bid/ship amount I would have been sending. Both of us were very happy!
twinsoft: I will say that for more expensive items, I do provide more better customer service. This makes sense to me. I also work in a retail store. I won't spend 1/2 hour selling someone a candy bar. That is not efficient.
My only comment on this viewpoint is that while your customer is deliberating the candy bar, s/he may well be considering your other merchandise. When the time comes and there is a need for your product, s/he will know just where to go to find the item you carry. Were I to buy from you and the service and packing was less than acceptable (I am not saying that is what you said) the chances are I will not be back. If I got the bums-rush in your store over a small purchase, I would look elsewhere before returning.
IMO, EVERY customer is a POTENTIAL repeat customer, and REPEAT business is the backbone of any successful business. NEW business is expensive to acquire. REPEAT business and word-of-mouth (feedback for you sellers/mail this auction to a friend) is far less expensive to acquire and results in higher sales volume and closing bids. Please! Correct me if I'm wrong...
Pat, you said, Seems to me, though, a wise seller would incorporate their costs into the opening bid amount. Sorry, that route doesn't work. Not only does it kill sales, but handling fees are just that: handling fees.
Good point! Were I selling I would not particularly want eBay, or any other service, getting the extra in FVF fees. Thanks for the heads-up on that issue! Again, I have no problem with REASONABLE handling fees.
____________________________________
Things have changed considerably since I was a seller. You have the shipping problem with USPS rates/zones changes, and competition from established chains I did not have to deal with. You have e-mail fraud and viruses which were seldom an issue then, and far more rip-off/problem customers than I ever encountered. I applaud most of you who hang in there and continue to sell professionally.
Hope I run into you pros on eBay!
Now...I have a business to run. Will check back with you wonderful folks later.
Pat
Just HAD to edit this and hope I'm getting the text-coding right!
posted on December 13, 2002 01:53:36 PM new
[i]SO let me get this straight -- a buyer, a customer, someone who pays our bills, puts food on the table, pays the car note, insurance,funds the retirement (For some of us) or in other cases, simply brings in extra money..........
........the customer who IMHO is a typical customer, based on my own dealings with customers.........says they prefer sellers who accept online credit card payments -- and people are telling here to ignore their auctions, saying they won't take online payments, etc.
HUH?!
[/i]
>>>>All of which simply indicates you're unwilling to consider anything other than conventional wisdom. Pity.
There's a ton of money being lost on eBay by sellers who know nothing but "the customer is always right".
I am sorry for your inexperience and I am sorry that I couldn't make my ideas more accessible to you. However, until you've had years of experience running a profitable (TRULY profitable) eBay enterprise, I'm afraid I'm just going to shrug and move on to the next response.
Results speak louder than words. I pull down $52,000 a year in salary from my eBay business, the business is growing, and the biggest problem I have is an inability to find enough suitable merchandise. There is absolutely no doubt that I can sell it at a profit (TRUE profit) on eBay. That has been proven.
The goal is $250,000 a year, so solving the supply problem is tops on my list.
This year I have run about 1500 auctions any given month. I hope to double that in 2003.<<
Results eh?
Background:
I'm a Mgt. Consultant (Technology Arena) Average client is a Fortune 100 company, where I work with Sr. Execs. E.g. When it comes to business I have significant experience and know my stuff.
I got started on eBay as a way to buy up some rare CDs and memorabilia from some of my favorite Bands. Decided a month later that I could make money on selling on ebay myself.
After some mis-steps in June & July, (most of which came about from following conventional wisdown) I hit upon my own way to run my business in mid-august and haven't looked back.
At the moment I'm a platinum power seller knocking on Titanium's door.
I sell electronics and my average sale is over $200 -- just because it's electronics and because it's high ticket, people want some sort of protection, the kind of protection credit card purchases bring.
On aggregate, my most popular question is: "Do you take credit cards and/or Pay Pal?" and they often give me the impression that they won't bother to buy if I don't tak either.
I get a lot of customers who say: "If you take Pay Pal, I'll BIN and pay you right away" If I said no -- they'd go to one of my competitors who does take Pay Pal.
In fact, as my business grows and I begin to sell more expensive items, it's becoming apparent that I should direct accept credit cards. Why? Because a sale ends and people want to call me and give me their credit card info over the phone.
It's very simple actually, my customers wouldn't be as likely to buy from me if I didn't take credit card payments. It's the basic business case for accepting credit cards no matter where you do business -- people will spend more.
The 2.2% I give Pay Pal for the 60% of my customers that use it, is offset greatly by the 1.5% I get in cash back since I use my Pal Pal card for puchases. Furthermore, the increase in overall business due to credit card acceptance outweighs the cost as well.
Before I sell a product, I do a quick analysis to make sure I can make a double digit margin after eBay & Pay Pal fees...if I can't, I won't sell it, it's just that simple.
Now, I guess I'm inexperienced, naieve and foolish for not following the conventional eBay wisdom.
But since the proof is in the puddding: If you'd like I can give you my eBay ID and you can run my business via Hammer Tap and find "my results".
Know that I get 20 - 30% of my business (depending on the month) from my AW store.
Know that I have about 7 proven sellers (and about 8 possible strong sellers on top of that) that I'm not offering at the moment because my suppliers are out of stock on said items.
Now I may be young, naieve and foolish in your eyes by not following the conventional eBay wisdowm. BUT, my business experience tells me that following some of that wisdowm would hurt my business. My sales totals say that I'm easily exceeding your profits, so I must be doing something right.
posted on December 13, 2002 02:06:59 PM new
[I]Do the math....
A bidder is only willing to bid $11.00 on an item..
Seller A: List opening bid a $9.95 with $1.00 S&H. Bidder wins at 9.95, pays 10.95. ebay collects fees on ONLY 9.95.
Seller B: List at 10.95 by including shipping and handling. Bidder wins at 10.95. Seller pays eBay fees on 10.95 listing and FVF
Seller C: list at 9.99 and "hopes" it is bid up enough to cover S & H. He loses all around. If it is not bid up, S&H kills him. If it is bid up, eBay get a portion of his S&H
If this is not simple enough for you to understand, then it is no wonder eBay makes millions while sellers suffer and are unable to get ahead...just general lack of common business sense and Math skills. [/i]
I never mentioned S/H
My minimum bids cover the cost of the product + estimated fees.
My strategy is not based on # of bidders, but on number of profitable bidders. The scenario you just outlined doesn't mention cost of product and anticipated fees from sales of said product.
Let's say a minimum bid on one of my products is $119.99 -- that minimum bid covers the cost of the product, ancitipated fees + a minimum profit margin.
See, my fees are COVERED by the minimum bid and ONE bid guarantees me a solid profit margin.
Yes, I'll get fewer bidders per item, yes fewer people may look at my items. BUT, a quick look at my competitors listings -- reveals that I can make more per item then they do, and I don't have to sell as much.
In fact, I have two competitors who are doing less volume then me even though they're selling the item for less.
Why? My buyers can BIN, also the way I present the product, my company and my listing strategy simply results in my buyers.
Again -- listing in a manner that guarantees a higher profit and pays for fees (not shipping, I charge for that separately) results in more $ for the business.
Think about it, let's say I make 15% profit per item after fees and you list lower and make 5% -- my sell through rate can be a third of yours and I'll make more money.........why?
Because I'm making 15% of a HIGHER final sale price. Couple in my other strategies, and I'll definitely make more.
E.g. 15% of say $119.99 is more then 5% of 100.00 x 3.
posted on December 13, 2002 02:15:10 PM new
Just a note on feedback:
As a seller I always left *appropriate* feedback. Yep! For a few negs, I got negs--and some of those were before you could leave a response to the negs. (Yes, I also got a couple of DESERVED negs! My errors! I paid with those two--and rightly so!)
As a buyer, I do not leave a neg unless I did not get the product. That has happened only once, and the seller has disappeared from the eBay scene.
Nor do I leave neutrals.
I leave positives--or nothing. If the service/packaging/fees were SERIOUSLY out-of-line there is no feedback from me, but there IS an e-mail sent to the seller explaining why the no feedback. I believe the seller fulfilled the *basics* of the contract but deserves to know why I'm not satisfied with our transaction. None have gotten angry. A few just don't respond. Most seem to appreciate the input. With the latter, I may shop with them again in the future.
Again, Thanks to all of you who have shared your insightful perspectives from CURRENT selling experience. It is truly appreciated...and I have learned a lot here!
Hopefully I will be a better informed buyer in the future.
posted on December 13, 2002 02:25:03 PM new"The other day I received a neutral feedback from this buyer that said something like "Great item but shipping prices are a little high". Even though this buyer was probably in the military because his address was one of those APO/FPO things I left him a big negative feedback to teach him a lesson! Was I wrong? "
Yes - Buyers have every right to dislike padded shipping charges, even when disclosed upfront.
"This is business. Not a whim. Nuet me. I Neg.. Pos. or Nothing! U learned. Thanks!"
Honest neutral repaid with vindictive neg. - too bad the buyer didn't post the neg you deserve.
posted on December 13, 2002 02:52:52 PM new
[i]I left him a big negative feedback to teach him a lesson! Was I wrong?
Here's the negative feedback I left that APO/FPO address buyer!
This is business. Not a whim. Nuet me. I Neg.. Pos. or Nothing! U learned. Thanks!
Was I wrong? [/i]
I do believe that you were doing wrong. What kind of attitude is that? Are people no longer entitled to their own opinions? Did you get your money in a timely manner? Was the customer polite and did they respond to you quickly?
Just because someone gives you a neutral, doesn't mean they deserve a negative feedback for your retaliation. At least they didn't neg you. If anything, a positive should have been left if the customer carried through with their end of the bargain, and did so in a timely manner.
I have to definately side with the buyer on this one. And hope and pray that I never bid on one of your auctions. God forbid that I should leave you NO feedback at all.
posted on December 13, 2002 03:58:38 PM new
Thank you figmente and breyerlover! I also think the seller that did this stupid thing was very wrong! It wasn't me but another seller that actually did this.
posted on December 13, 2002 04:36:18 PM new
One last comment on this thread.
Many of you are not taking into account us sellers who are just selling off our own lifelong collections. And, yes, it is large enough to list on Ebay for some time to come. I have over 5,000 lp's, over 10,000 postcards, over 5,000 lobby cards, over 6,000 8 track tapes etc. etc. etc.
I am not out "looking" for merchandise that will sell...I am doing whatever it takes to move the items I already own. I moved out of a 3,000 sq ft home into a 800 ft apartment and have two storage buildings I am paying rent on that I just want to empty out before I retire.
The items I sell are not high demand, and don't bring in high prices. I do Ebay for fun and a little profit and truly enjoy it, but I would never do it for a business where I would look for items to sell and then try to sell them.
I am, however, competing agains hundreds of thousands of similar items listed everyday and low starting bids are what makes the buyer look. But, I still want to make enough to make it worth my while. Otherwise, I will just keep my items and let my kids decide what to do with them.
If I had a starting bid $1 or $2 higher than I do, I would be passed over very quickly. When someone does look at something I have for sale, they often like the looks and description and that extra dollar or two doesn't matter a bit. I have tried it both ways...actual shipping and S&H and even offered free shipping once. It did not change the final percentage of sales, but it did result in my losing money...something I will not do again.
I do accept Paypal and realize my costs for each sale wind up being a minimum of $1.80 after all fees involved. And, I realize I will only sell one out of every three items I list. Therefore, to make any profit at all, I choose to add the small handling fee to my shipping.
posted on December 13, 2002 05:11:57 PM new
my two cents (for what it's worth)
I buy a LOT on ebay as well as sell.
I bid on something last week from a power seller and I "thought" maybe the shipping was a little high, but paid it anyway.
I received the item, new Calphalon cooking piece, so I knew yes, it might be a little heavy.
When I received it, it was boxed in the orginal box bubble wrapped and then...inside another box with peanuts inside still ANOTHER box! For something that couldn't break in a million years.
So that changed my mind about complaining about the shipping costs ahead of time.
What goes around comes around.........
But it has been interesting to read this about doing the numbers.
I'm so glad I get to do this "for fun" instead of depending on it for a living. I eat a little shipping sometimes, make a little other times, but at ALL times, I want to have a good time, as well as the other people I deal with.
[ edited by glassgrl on Dec 13, 2002 05:15 PM ]
posted on December 13, 2002 11:17:49 PM newI will say that for more expensive items, I do provide more better customer service. This makes sense to me. I also work in a retail store. I won't spend 1/2 hour selling someone a candy bar. That is not efficient.
My only comment [to twinsoft] on this viewpoint is that while your customer is deliberating the candy bar, s/he may well be considering your other merchandise.
Pat, that is the standard come-back. To which I respond, there are plenty of other customers floating around the store who are wanting to buy merchandise right now. Should I ignore serious, paying customers for the sake of one low-baller who needs their hand held over a $5 transaction?
If the item I'm selling on eBay is more expensive, then I do spend more time on customer service, because I think that customer deserves it. Not because I am trying to groom more sales from the customer. But then, my business is not based on repeat sales. I have a limited product line.
However, I think that most sellers who deal in low price, high volume items will understand that there is a need for efficiency. I need to spend time with all my customers. Even though a small few may feel the need to monopolize my time, I can't allow it.
I've been selling on eBay for five years and in retail for about two. There are many types of customers. Two are immediately recognizable. First, the customer who comes in, wastes little time, accepts your recommendations, gets the best and happily dumps a ton of money. Second, the kind who comes in looking for the absolute cheapest item, wastes lots of (my) time asking questions, and then doesn't buy anything. Not every customer is like one of these, but they do happen surprisingly often. IMO these are personality types. The extravagant buyer will never waste my time, and the cheapskate will never buy anything worthwhile.
While it may seem noble, or even smart, to spend lots of time catering to a dyed-in-the-wool cheapskate, there really is no return. It would be foolish to do so when paying customers are waiting.
Now I would like to repeat what I posted before. eBay sales is a two-way street. Both buyer and seller should be satisfied. There is no "customer is always right" any more than I am always right. There must be a contract, i.e., a meeting of minds.
A while back when sales began to lag due to increased competition, I was faced with a choice to either increase eBay to full-time, or get a real job. I got a job. It pays LESS than eBay. But I enjoy it MORE. I enjoy selling face-to-face. In my store, I am part of a real community, not some fairy-tale, media enhanced so-called community that eBay has become. I see the same people regularly and am on good terms with them. I RARELY hear a complaint. On the other hand, eBay is designed to focus on PRICE, not quality. eBay customers don't see items sitting next to each other on a shelf. They see minimum bids all together in a list. eBay by its very nature encourages complaining and low-balling, etc.
