posted on January 26, 2003 08:05:19 AM new
walhalla: Monarchy.
Ben Franklin knew a good line when he saw one, and used this (frequently taken out of context and widely-misquoted) statement as early as 1755. It is generally attributed to Franklin's _Historical Review_, published in 1759.
Note that that is 17 years before the colonies declared Independence.
Given that Franklin spent many years (from 1757 to 1775, in fact) sucking up to and socializing with the Brits, when placed in historical perspective the seemingly-pithy line loses a lot of its punch. As a matter of fact, Franklin considered himself an Englishman. England was considerably more civilized and comfortable than the American colonies.
The correct quote is:
"They that can give up essential liberty to
obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "
posted on January 26, 2003 09:25:13 AM new
People get a life....Why do you think Al Gore is not running again for President? Because He knows he cannot make it...
I would like to see how you Tomwii and the rest of the unamericans would run this country with all the problems in the past two years. At least Pres. Bush is out trying to save our country not doing (?) in the oval office. So now lets quit this and get back to our problems, might they be small but important to me.
Tell me why do young men and women join the Armed Forces? To be on watch so if disaster strikes whether it be war or maybe just a tornado they are prepared why, because they love their country...
I agree this thread should be deleted. They deleted our JACKSWEBB thread and that was against AW rules so they better delete this one.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jan 26, 2003 09:26 AM ]
posted on January 26, 2003 09:50:53 AM new
Libra - I'm sorry but Who the h**l are you to state that people that people that question the actions of a war happy president are "unamerican"?
The thing that I find interesting is that it's the "conservatives" here that keep tossing out the insults. Apparently if I have the same opinion as half the world that Bush is trigger happy and bound and determined to start a war no matter what the UN inspectors find than according to this thread I am "vacant" and "unamerican".
I guess it's my lack of original thought that has kept me from resorting to the bottom feeding habit of insulting those that disagree with me.
Get a grip and grow up people, not everyone is going to think the same way you do and that fact makes them neither "vacant" nor "unamerican" - it makes them human.
posted on January 26, 2003 10:18:58 AM new
Our troops take an oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States. The last time I looked it included the Bill of Rights which protects our freedom of speech. I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Those who would censor opinions they disklike are the true "unamericans".
Now will someone please close this off the topic thread?
posted on January 26, 2003 11:34:11 AM new
A-men Jensmome
The only one who can end this thread is the person that started it, who is kamdens
He has to come in and request it to be stopped or if by chance a monitor should stop by and read this it will be ended.
Enough of the name calling. Our country is in a mess and not because of Pres. Bush. Be realistic you people. What needs to be done is to stop it and soon and if it doesn't stop we will be destroyed as a democracy. I hope that doesn't happen but there are people in this world that want to see America destroyed and fighting amoungst ourselves is helping their cause.
posted on January 26, 2003 11:34:17 AM new
Sorry double post. One click or two clicks I can never figure it out. Oh well...
[ edited by Libra63 on Jan 26, 2003 11:35 AM ]
posted on January 26, 2003 11:54:52 AM new
Libra - are you counting yourself in that because it distinctly looks to be your name at the head of that post that calls anyone disageeing with Bush "Unamerican". Or is that not considered name calling?
BTW - How exactly will bombing Iraq cure the ails of this country? I'm curious how increasing unemployment, falling consumer confidence, a lessening of personal freedom and corporate coruption leading to the loss of retirement savings and increasing health care costs coupled with plumeting health care coverage will be cured by the bombing of Iraq?
::I hope that doesn't happen but there are people in this world that want to see America destroyed and fighting amoungst ourselves is helping their cause.::
I guess I have completely misjudged this. Until the name calling I assumed this was an open discussion of differing opions without the fear of retribution. A DISTINCTLY democratic thing, the epitomy of what that this country was formed on. And this is something we should now STOP going to save our freedom? I have to ask how you have reached that conclusion.
BTW - I am not being sarcastic, I truly am curious as to how one comes to the conclusion that an end to open discussion with differing opinions will strengthen this country.
posted on January 26, 2003 12:30:15 PM new
If our leaders are wise we won't go to war. Ben Franklin had an open mind unlike our present leaders. He is also the only person whose signature is on the Treaty of Paris, The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.
Nanntique says, "Take 'em all down, and let God sort out the innocent!" I thought that is what courts were for. Sounds kind of like the Taliban to me. And which God are we talking about.
The problem with most of the pro Bushies is they don't know the facts. Their argument is to call an antiwar activist or anyone else who disagrees with them a liberal. Nothing wrong with being a liberal. It simply means you have an open mind and are open to change and new ideas unlike Taliban George who doesn't even deserve to be called a conservative. He is a puppet of energy and Big Business.
Koto1, George Bush is not a good man. He wants to kill people. He wants people assassinated. He wants war when there is also the chance for peace. He continually lies to the American public. He hasn't given us fact one about weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam. Says the fact that we haven't found them proves he has them. etc etc.....
posted on January 26, 2003 12:48:00 PM new
The main reason to close this thread is because this is an eBay forum. There are other, more appropriate places to discuss this very important issue.
The secondary reason is that we all are equally impassioned and love to argue our points but sometimes get carried away and impune others who have an equal right to express themselves.
posted on January 26, 2003 03:15:36 PM new
The insults that you insist on hurling are highly unAmerican ~ the lack of respect is apalling & offensive.
This is the eBay Outlook.
Please find a more appropriate forum for your 'discussion'.
posted on January 26, 2003 10:48:37 PM new
And yet again, GW issues are dodged. I am curious. Do you think a deserter can lead the military as commander in chief?
You are right, I do not understand defending something by destroying it... Guess I am just ignorant.
As for service, there is service and there is service. Would I defend my country? Yes, but there has not been a real threat to it while I was at an age that doing so was needed. If you are saying that the only way to show you love a country is by serving in the military, I think you are wrong. I work in public service. I've turned down jobs in the private sector for more then double my current salary because my services are valuable. I make a difference.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. B. Franklin
