posted on December 11, 2000 12:13:15 PM new
Unlike many of the people here I don't have a problem with how Paypal is giving us a refund, or how long it takes. How many of you have actually disputed a charge with a credit card? I have, and it took several months of letter writing and faxing before it was completed.
I have a question for paypaldamon. You said that PP is working a way to refund the money and will be contacting the parties involved. Does that mean I don't have to fill out the information that you have requested when I filed a fraud report, or should I also send in the information that was requested?
And another thing, I'm not a PP cheerleader, I was mad as hell when I had to start paying fees, but I have had no problems with contacting customer service and getting things done. They even reversed the fees charged to me when a customer mistakenly paid me for someone else's auction, so I can't complain.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:18:34 PM new
Hi grahamreaper,
More information will be coming out over the next several days on how users are going to be reimbursed.
We are complying with the requirements of law enforcement to prosecute the case and that is why we can't just send the money out of the account. We are devising an alternative method of reimbursement to compensate impacted users for the money.
My understanding, at this point in time, is that an affidavit will be required, but all users will be notified of the requirements. Once the details are made known to me, I will be more than happy to post them here.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:21:07 PM new
HI Hjw,
Yes, accounts can still be frozen, but the circumstances under which they are are entirely related to fraudulent activity. Accounts can also be restricted, where they can't withdraw the money until further information is submitted. Under the TOU, there is a clause for validating the integrity of the funds.
Transactions being frozen (made pending) are the norm in most circumstances.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:22:44 PM new
Hi mogu,
We are complying with law enforcement requirements to go forward with the case and that is why the money can't be directly refunded out of the account that received the funds.
Again, we are devising an alternative system to reimburse users and the notification process will be happening this week. No users will lose money as a result of the incident.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:30:53 PM new
Thank you paypaldamon, but I am still unclear , do I sit and wait for you to contact me about how to proceed, or do I follow the terms laid out in your TOS (prior to the chagne, which by the way really stinks because it offers my buyers no real protection, sorry but had to get my opinion out to someone who would listen)
posted on December 11, 2000 12:31:40 PM new
So don't refund the money from that account...surely you can easily keep enough tabs on your funds to simply refund it from some of your companies other voluminous coffers...can't you? Or is Paypal becoming as fly-by-night as Gametek was?
Let's face facts...the only thing you are doing is running out the time limit on chargebacks (through the threat of having accounts frozen or restricted) so that you will have the upper hand in dealing out refunds in the manner you deem fit.
Someone should message Detective Freeman and see if having Paypal withhold the refunds the way they are is in fact an integral part of this investigation.
posted on December 11, 2000 02:56:55 PM new
I don't remember seeing a threat of frozen accounts anywhere in this thread, and if you are going to contact Det. Freeman, you'd better also contact the Palo Alto police department and the US Postal investigations because if you have read the Fountain Valley website there are 3 different agencies investigating.
I still find it incredulous that there is a company willing to protect you from this fraud and all anyone can do is B and M about it. sheesh
posted on December 11, 2000 03:23:59 PM new
I find it kind of amusing how everyone is so quick to yelp at PayPal.
Honestly, kids... it isn't PP's fault we sent money to a fraud. They are a payment tool. We decided to use that tool, and in the end, got screwed by GameTek.
If you sent in a check or MO, you are basically SOL. PayPal's actually offering to return everyone's money according to the terms of their TOS, then as annoying as it is, I say we're obligated to jump through whatever hoops they want.
Especially with whoever it was who bought over $5000 worth of merchandice. Christ. PayPal's more than within their rights to cut the return off at their set 5K limit. But they're even offering a full return on that sum!
Hell, if they want to file reports to the credit union against users who've charged back payments, so be it.
My Credit Card is aware of the problem. If PayPal faults on their end of the bargan, which I don't see happening, then I've always got a chargeback option. I'm covered 90 days standard, and have a complaint on file. Your card isn't so helpful- try getting a real one.
posted on December 11, 2000 04:18:22 PM new
Amen, I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I find it amazing that people are crying foul when they have actually been given a reprieve from a 300+ loss. I am curious to know why you people who keep threatening to do a chargeback used PP to pay Gametek anyway. If you wanted the protection of your CC then why not just use that to pay?
If you paid by PP instead of your card because of their buyer protection policy then you knew what the terms were when you completed the transaction, why should they change them now, this especially goes to you people who are always complaining about PP changin their TOS's daily. Now you want them to change for your benefit? You can't have it both ways.
I am grateful that PP is offering me a way out of this quagmire, and like the post before will jump through whatever lame hoops I have to to get my money back. At least with PP I have some hoops to jump through.
posted on December 12, 2000 06:26:57 AM new
Graham at the time i found out about Gametek, this was October 27th, they were not allowing direct credit card payments through their website. The only way you could use a credit card was through paypal.
That is why everyone is screaming foul. They were forced too. At least in my case. The buyer protection program was just a reason to succumb to it. I called PP customer support, and tried reporting a fraud, they sent me a file protection claim form via email, and i replied documenting all correspondance with pp and gametek. They replied with an email that was almost the same as the fraud reporting email they sent me to begin with! How frustrating is that! That tells me they did not acknowledge my email, which they could have done and said someone will get back to you on this. That really ticked me off. Dont be so confident about paypal coming to the rescue. ESPECIALLY if the transaction took place after november 10.
posted on December 12, 2000 12:10:16 PM new
That article appears to have been written before PP offered the verified seller and buyer protection program that PP offered when most of us bought from GameTek. Find me something recent.
As far as the other link, that thing is so vauge that you can't draw any conclusions. The person doesn't even state the TOS correctly he says that he would be paid 30 days after the claim was sent, that is not stated anywhere in their old TOS.
I don't know why you guys keep beating this to death. When you paid there was a TOS in force that protects you as long as you follow their rules. If you do and you don't get what is owed you then PP is in breach of contract and you can take them to small claims. Try doing that with GameTek like I have seen some people suggest, they don't even have any assets to get your money back from.
posted on December 12, 2000 04:54:38 PM new
NO IGOTGAME, nobody received their playstations yet. What a brilliant, antagonistic question!!! More importantly, did anyone get their "affidavit" from Paypal to fill out. It was supposed to come early this week. I, too, am on Paypals side on this. I am going to let this thing play out and hope for the best. If I would have sent a check or MO, GONE. If I pay by CC it could be worse. The fact that Paypal has a buyers protection plan is an awesome feature if it works. Please, if anyone recieves your affidavit, post notice so we all know if we are included. One last thing, Scooterman, I have heard you talk about the company you work for in several threads. You have apprently learned some about the Credit Card business. I hope, for your company's sake, you don't have anything to do with customer service or make any contact with people in general.
posted on December 13, 2000 06:32:43 AM new
...buyers protection plan is an awesome feature if it works...
YES! IF it works! IF..
It's not working for many many people. That's why there are tons of people posting here about Paypal!!
[ edited by mogu on Dec 13, 2000 06:33 AM ]
posted on December 13, 2000 09:56:22 AM new
Ok all you whiners complaining about how long the refund will take, and that someone should email Det. Freeman. Has anyone visited the fountainvalley.org website. There you have it from the Detective. He says that the bank accounts are frozen and that you will have to wait for a bunch of investigative paperwork before you can get your refund.
I'd like to hear comments from those advocating calling the detective as to why the refunds were so long in coming.
posted on December 13, 2000 10:10:30 AM new
I just got another email from yet another verified buyer who paid someone through PP and never got the merchandise. PP told him to wait 30 days. Then they send him paperwork to fill out. Then they put a credit in his account that read 'pending.' It sat there for over a month and disappeared after the 60 day limit for filing a charge back. I have gotten at least a dozen emails like this since posting my payment rating site. So those of you who want to gamble that this time PP will do the right thing, go right ahead but you can get better odds on OJ getting convicted in a retrial.
