posted on February 25, 2001 01:33:54 AM new
Hi, does anyone know anything about winauction espress? It seems to be part of winauction auctions, but when I signed up it only asked for my name. No proof of identity, location credit card, nothing. The same for sellers. I bid on a laptop there and now I'm worried because I had checked all pricing on this model before bidding and the lowest was $2600. However, I bid $700 just for kicks to start and it was actually the sellers reserve. I can't believe anyone could have that kind of a discount where they could make money from that reserve. (maybe I'm wrong on that). I found the auction too late to contact the seller. Also. no one else is bidding on these laptops, so that's scary too.
I was just almost taken on Yahoo auctions by someone selling macs with no reserve that were going very cheap. Fortunately Yahoo shut it down.
Any advice?
posted on February 25, 2001 02:57:33 AM new
Sorry dont no the site! I sell on bidville and they did not require you to give a credit card if you are a seller or buyer have sold several items and bought a few also with out any problem. It seems like different sites what different kinds of id's. All I can say is if it sounds to good to be true look at it real close lol. Wish I could be more help.
posted on February 25, 2001 04:05:12 AM new
My advice is to be up front with the seller. Tell him you have concerns about the newness of the auction. Maybe even fib a little bit and say that the other half wants some kind of reassurances before letting you spend that kind of money.
Then either request COD or the services of an escrow service. I am pretty sure that services such as I TRUST YOU are not auction specific. Explain to the seller that you would be willing to pay all fees involved.
Do this especially if the seller has a 'public' email account such as one from Yahoo, or Hotmail.
Although there is a high probability that on a site like this with no seller verification that this is a scam, there is also a higher probability that it is legitimate. At least from the point of view of you getting your merchandise. The item may be reconditioned. Or it may have 'fell off a truck' if you catch my drift. Or there is a possibility that the seller is simply a fool and placed his items up for below wholesale hoping that the bidding would skyrocket. Certainly not the first time THIS has happened.
posted on February 25, 2001 06:21:47 AM new
Thanks for the reply. I also found something else out now the auction is over. The location of these two sellers is overseas. And, yes, they both have public email accounts. I don't know what to make of that good or bad. I emailed, but no response yet.(Aucion just closed)
I thought about using Yahoo Paydirect. I'm not sure but I think they insure your CC for fraud when paying with them. Maybe not?
Another thing: as soon as the auction ended, the page was gone. I mean, can't find the listing anywhere.
posted on February 25, 2001 06:37:33 AM new
Oops, I was wrong, you can check on closed auctions. Winacution should make sellers and bidders identify location at least. I think shipping will cost me a fortune if the auctions real.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:44:25 PM new
Seller finally contacted me and wants me to send money via Western Union. I'd be crazy to send uninsured money to someone I don't now overseas. I gave this person several other options (included escow and COD). Personally, if they won't accept a payment alternative I'll be convinced it's fraud. They didn't state how payment had to be made in the auctions so I beleive I'm alright legally. Also because I'm willing and trying to fullfill payment. Anyone have thoughts about this? Maybe something else I should do as well...
posted on February 26, 2001 07:15:16 PM new
Just wondering..."The location of these two sellers is overseas."...exactly what country? That in itself can sometimes tell you a lot.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:29:32 PM new
I would DEFINITELY not send anything unless the seller agrees to an escrow service. If they are a professional seller, then they should have no problem as long as you are willing to cover the cost, which I think you should do. Otherwise, tell them that their terms are unacceptable, and move on.
I can't believe this site does not tell you the location before you bid! That seems unacceptable to me.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:50:33 PM new
I agree completely. It's unthinkable to not list the seller's location. That's want started this mess in the first place. The auction's over but it takes days to get a response from the seller, I'm guessing, because of the time difference. I'm not sure if he's a proffessional seller or not, but I doubt it. He had about 7 or 8 auctions up, all for the same items. I just have to wait and see but I swear, I'm not sending uninsured funds. Do you know how much an escow service usually charges or of one that's good? I've never used that service before.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:05:12 PM new
I can't believe I'm advising someone to be a deadbeat, but in this case I am. I think the fact that the seller's location wasn't disclosed to you (makes a BIG difference on shipping costs) and the fact that it turns out to be Romania (fraud haven) are 2 good reasons to cancel the deal. Do you really think the item will be what you think it is---or that you will actually get it? Walk away from this deal, is my advice.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:28:01 PM new
I think misscandle has a good point - Even if you can get an escrow company (I don't have a recommendation, I've never use this service before) who knows if they will deal with Romania because of the fraud problem. Even if the item is shipped, will it work, and what will you do if it doesn't. If it was a US address, you can get the US Postal Service involved in a fraud investigation if something went wrong, but you are pretty much on your own if it is coming from Romania. Given that you did not know the location of the item before, and all the other problems, I think I will change my advice from seeking an escrow service to backing out of this deal. I agree it is strange advice from a seller, but there are just too many factors in this one that make it a bad idea to complete the deal.
posted on February 27, 2001 03:07:16 PM new
Thanks for the honesty. I've been thinking the same thing. It's true, not knowing the location is the big deal, and I have heard how bad Romania is about fraud, but I feel bad about backing out of a deal. Yeah, I know, I'd feel a lot worse losing $2000. Seller emailed today and said I could send him half the money and then the rest when I got the stuff (That's still $1000!) or to have western union hold the money until he sends me the UPS numbers. I understand the fact that he may not ship what he says he has, but at the same time, that can happen over here as well. It seems like he's trying to work it out. If he's legit, maybe he's just afraid I'm trying to hustle him for the money. Could I do anything through UPS, like, have him insure the packages (Stating value and contents)? I think I could.
posted on February 27, 2001 04:10:32 PM new
How many $700.00 lap-tops did you bid on? That is more risk than I would be willing to take, without checking out everything first.
Anything over $20.00 and I'm reading up on feedback and asking questions about shipping before bidding.
Hope everything will work out for you, but I would back out, since it wasn't stated that the item would be coming from Romania.
posted on February 27, 2001 10:55:48 PM new
2 Sony laptops and 1 Sony digicam. I know, I'm crazy, but I found them right before the auction was ending. I just thought the price was low because there aren't many sellers or bidders on winauction. I don't know if anyone who has responded to this thread has actually gone to the winauction site yet, but you'd see what I mean. I believe this person still has more of these items up. Most everything on this site has low bids.
posted on February 28, 2001 01:17:33 AM newTHIS IS A SCAM.
Ebay and YaWho have both had fraudulent sellers of expensive electronics from Romania (who wanted the money wired by Western Union), and naive buyers lost LOTS of money to them. Romanian computer hackers have also used stolen credit card numbers to make $100,000s in purchases from internet companies, and poor law enforcement over there gives them free rein.
If you still feel the sale MIGHT be legitimate, don't pay ANYONE but I-Escrow. That way, you get to receive, inspect, AND approve the merchandise before giving an OK for the funds to be released to the seller. If a seller is honest, he'll accept I-Escrow if you agree to pay their fees.
PayPal, Billpoint, and PayDirect MIGHT offer you protection (mostly in the form of a chargeback through your credit card company), but I-Escrow is much SAFER for you as the buyer, since your money doesn't actually make it into the seller's pocket until you give the OK.
posted on February 28, 2001 04:41:01 AM new
Romania, is of course a problem.
Virtually no chance of fraud charges ever sticking in Eastern Europe.
The reason for Western Union may be currency instability which causes many Money Order companies not to do business in certain areas of the world. But of course, it is a perfect vehicle for fraud.
I would ask for serial numbers, first to make sure that they are in his possession, and second to verify with the companies whether they were reported stolen. If not outright fraud, this sounds at least like a hijacked shipment. How about feedback? Any satisfied customers? Ask him his eBay or QXL ID so you can at least get some references from those auctions.
And don't forget about customs. If stolen they are likely to be seized at that point....
posted on February 28, 2001 03:52:39 PM new
I never would have thought about asking for the serial numbers or that it might get stopped by customs. (Though I had thought about it being stolen) I'll definately check that.
I emailed this person today and mentioned the serial numbers and the use of Escrow. I'm awaiting the reply now.
Thanks for letting me know about the Ebay and Yahoo frauds. This seller has sent me three emails from three seperate Yahoo accounts. While I've read in other threads that alot of sellers use different account, I think that in this situation it just ads to my suspicion.
I will say this: the only reason I'm still interested is because a freind of mine is from Europe and he told me that in some places like Saudi Arabia they really do get these products dirt cheap. Sometimes direct from the manufacturer. It really is possible that this seller has what he says he has and it isn't stolen. On the whole though, it's much more likely it's fraudulent.
Oh well, if he won't go for escrow and send the serial numbers, it's over. Too bad.
posted on April 16, 2001 03:03:55 PM new
I have gone a stage further and actually sent money to one of these Romanians. I sent £400 via MoneyGram after seeing a Compaq laptop advertised on QXL.
After regular emails with the seller, all contact has mysteriously stopped after he has received the money and it's now 10 days later.
I'm resigned to the fact that I've been conned and was stupid enough to trust this guy, without asking questions about serial numbers or COD etc (btw this is great advice but I read it too late).
I do have an address in Romania for this person, who can communicate in broken English. Any advice as to what I can put in a threatening letter, in order to get the laptop or my money back?
Cheers
Andy
PS The auction was cancelled before I made a bid, and we arranged the deal through the QXL messaging service. They are now refusing to give me his actual email address because of the Data Protection Act.
posted on April 16, 2001 03:58:06 PM new
I'm sorry to say I think you're out of luck. As somebody stated earlier in this post, there's not much chance of getting anything to stick overthere. The police either don't care or have the time to get involved. The person I was dealing with used several different emails in corresponding with me and when I took the advice I was getting to demand only escrow service payment, I never heard from them again. If it hadn't been for the nice people who wrote back on this board, I would have made the same mistake you have.
posted on May 1, 2001 04:53:40 AM new
Doggonit! I should have read the forums before jumping into the purchase!
I believe I have been conned! Anyone heard of the names C****** N******, R***** T****** (I've just been asked to edit these out)?
I saw an auction for an EOS D30 Digital Camera for USD1500. The seller did not accept credit cards. He/She also provided me with e-mail references for other buyers, no doubt registered by the seller and used to return bogus replies (now I know).
I sent the money two fridays ago and the last time I received a message from the seller was last friday. Since then I've not heard anything.
At first, the seller wanted me to send the payment via MoneyGram. It was a lot more expensive and a lot less secure (anonymous payment) than a standard transfer via my bank. So I decided to wire the payment.
I've since asked me bank to try and cancel the payment, which I doubt will do any good. One hope is that the account number which my bank entered for the payment had one wrong digit so hopefully, the payment hasn't entered the seller's account yet.
How naive of me. Never buy anything from Romania or any other country that has been identified by others with high levels of fraudulent activity! Even with Escrow, I will never buy again.
As the saying goes, "if it's too good to be true, it usually is!".
Oh ya, by the way, andyslack, you thought you were stupid? well, what about me? I sent over £1000!!! via bank wire transfer. The seller has since then been suspended from the auction site!
Also, I have the postal addresses of the Romanian. Maybe we can compare them to see if they're the same person?
There should be warnings posted all over auction sites to warn people about such activities going on, and encouraging them to use encrow services whenever possible. People (like me) do not normally know the tactics which these people use to lure victims. Although I admit that I have been naive (and stupid) in thinking that it would be OK, there should be more warnings about such activities and its seriousness!
According to fraud.org, over 40% of participants have had problems with transactions when using auction sites.
Replies?
[ edited by eemkts on May 1, 2001 05:04 AM ]
[ edited by eemkts on May 1, 2001 05:07 AM ]
[ edited by eemkts on May 1, 2001 05:10 AM ]
posted on May 1, 2001 08:09:55 PM new
eemkts-
I beleive there are many fraudulent sellers from that country. There's really nothing to tell you now, except that you learned the hard way. Don't beleive it's only from afar either. People everywhere have learned how to get away with this even on the big "protected" auction sites. I've had many honest dealings with people at auction and only the one bad incident (which started this post), so don't get too discouraged.
posted on May 2, 2001 02:52:46 AM new
These threads never fail to crack me up!
Let's see: Good ole Boris Mafianski from Minsk offered me the Brooklyn Bridge for $16.99 plus shipping! Gee, I just couldn't resist, especially when he insisted upon the money being either WIRED or sent CASH...but NEVER a CREDIT CARD!
posted on May 2, 2001 03:34:37 AM newjca001, thanks for your emphathy. I've been to my bank since to try and cancel the transfer, then again, it might just be too late (since I've not heard from the guy for 4 days already). It takes the bank such a long time to process requests. I still have one hope though, that the banks over there takes longer than it does here to process transfers.
I have one question though. He gave me his bank account information. Can't the authorities catch him this way? When someone applies for a bank account, don't you have to provide some form of identification? Then again, documents could be forged. He could also get away with it by closing the account after receiving the money and opening a new one somewhere else.
tomwiii, I'm glad you're finding other's loss funny. O.K. so we were naive and a little stupid, but there was no need to cut any deeper. Where is your compassion? How could I know about this if I've not read about someone else's mistake or experienced it for myself. I've looked at a number of business sites which will only take payment in the form of cheques drawn on US banks or wire transfer from international buyers (no credit card or escrow). I thought this was such a case. I've already said I was naive and stupid -- I should have done more research. Don't be so self-righteous and think that you're too smart to let something like that happen to you -- that's when you fall prey, maybe not in these types of situations but others.
[ edited by eemkts on May 2, 2001 03:36 AM ]
posted on May 2, 2001 04:07:33 PM new
tomwiii: Why do you come to these threads to laugh at others? You're not helping eemkts by saying he should have known better. I have personlly bought items at auction for a third of what they're worth. It can happen. I found this site by chance and that's what got me out of hot water. And if someone has no knowledge of online auctions but has checked things to the best of their ability, how can you belittle them from the comfort of your home? If you would never fall prey to something like this (in any form), then why don't you post a few more pointers here like others have? Maybe we could learn from your experiences. Or, maybe not.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:17:06 AM newjca001, thanx. You can learn a lot about a person from his/her reaction to another's misfortunes. You're a very compassionate person.
tomwiii, you may not have fallen prey to fraudsters (yet), but try and imagine what it feels like to be in my situation. If it hasn't happened to you, then be glad and thank God!
Also, the Internet Fraud section of the DoJ website warns that Internet fraud is also committed using very professional looking e-commerce websites.
It's ALL about TRUST. Who can you TRUST? No one. Each person has to use their own judgement and in my case, I trusted the wrong person. There have been cases where retailers will only accept wire transfers from international buyers. If the site looks good or the person selling it sounds sincere (that's what they -- fraudsters -- are good at -- getting you to trust them with your money), and the items are even ONLY 10-20% cheaper than others, wouldn't you go for it? How do you know it's not a fraud?? The only solution is to use a reputable company, one which you've bought other products from, or your friends/family have used before, but then you'll have to pay at RRP or at a slightly cheaper price. As far as I know, using Escrow is the only safe way to buy from all other parties.
[ edited by eemkts on May 3, 2001 06:17 AM ]
posted on May 3, 2001 08:04:21 AM new
To be BLUNT...
All these stories usually sound fishy to me as I refuse to believe that ANYBODY can be so (.........) as to send loads of MOOLA to a complete STRANGER in the CORRUPTION-RAMPANT former Eastern-Bloc countries of EASTERN EUROPE!
