I don't take up for anyone here, there or anywhere. My stance has remained the same throughout. No committment at all to either side.
AG, well that told us alot of what went on. It's the same as before you left. I didn't know Snowhunter went to a meeting, but I'm glad he took those letters with him as it probably saved you a lot of deliberation when you threw that gauntlet down.
Oh and I don't care to call them, thank you. I have no interest in the operating end of the site. If they make a go, fine, if not, well, it's happened to the best.
posted on March 13, 2001 06:30:41 PM new
AG2:
The gauntlet that you talk of was filled with Kool-Aid and you drank it! All this comes with a price though, doesn't it? $5,000.00 for your silence. What are you going to do with all that research energy you have? George felt you were the ring-leader and by paying you off, he thought the rest of us mindless people would evenually crawl under a rock. WRONG!
The flavor of Kool-aid was Lime, the color green (the color of money).
posted on March 13, 2001 06:31:05 PM new
I love how people get so hung up on typos...LOL
It always shows they can't discuss things effectively.
I think fast and type fast...mistakes do happen if you can't live with that then so be it.
#1 Do I answer to you? Nope.
#2 Did I promise answers to you? Nope.
#3 The description of the train ride lasts for about 2 sentences out of that entire post...care to count and check my math while you're at it.
#4 Am I a spokesman for BidBay who should answer all of your questions? Nope.
But to answer a few. Yes Wes Cooley is the former congressman from Oregon who is now one of the shareholders as well as VP of BidBay.com Inc. Simply reading the SB2 you would have learned that.
Now another thing. I too have read the stories where he was charged with a felony for the voter pamphlet issue...but I also learned everything was expunged. Once again if you read the SB2 it makes no mention of those troubles and by law BidBay would have to include that so apparently the point is moot.
Why was it expunged I don't know. Call the man and ask him.
Regarding VC. They are a solvent company. They do have financial reserves but I did not ask for exact numbers. I do know they earned almost 400K for either December or January.
Regarding the quiet period. It was their legal counsels opinion that they did nothing wrong, however they felt it was in the best interest of the company to pull some of those threads about purchasing all auction sites etc.
Now did they violate SEC rules and violations? That will be for the SEC to determine.
Did I prove my point? Yes I did. And in more ways than one.
But as I stated above and will reiterate. We are not 100% correct in our judgements of this company. Just as you are not 100% correct in calling Wes Cooley a convicted felon.
And as far as I'm concerned the joke is that you are so concerned about me and my getting paid the 5K to visit with this company.
Once again I am not BidBay's spokesman. I do not, cannot, and will not speak for them.
I have stated time and time again that I only have to make one person in this world happy and proud and that is myself.
I put myself out on the frontline so to speak and took a lot of attacks and insults by various members of this community as well as BidBay's because of my postings. And what I find sad is that you can't respect that, or the fact that I met their challenge head on and came away with the knowledge that I have had an impact on improving that site regardless of how great or small that impact is.
You are so bothered by the money. What I have learned most of all is that some people just won't be happy. Even if I had done it for free you would still have some issue with me going there. The last time I looked dadnmom...I had my own father and mother and not even they dictate what I do in my life. But yet they do respect what I did. They respect the fact that I at least gave the company the satisfaction of being able to sit down and discuss with me the problems I have seen with the site. The fact that in spite of my being in a no win situation with this community or the BidBay community I still took on that challenge...I don't think anyone else here had the guts to do what I did.
I am truly becoming a man with no country so to speak.
I am clearly not welcome by the members of the BidBay community for the things I have said about the site as well as them. Yet even one of them has come here to defend me.
But then...even here I am not welcome by some because I visited with the company and accepted money for my time.
But I knew this is exactly what would happen. I already started to experience a little bit of the questioning in a couple of emails. But yet I still accepted the challenge.
And once again. I don't think there is anyone who questions my integrity who would have had the guts to do what I did.
People claim they would ask the "hard questions." I did. I don't have to claim anything and I don't have to prove anything.
Good day...you have my final responses on this matter. As far as I am concerned it is closed.
This is not a new decision. It has actually been discussed time and time again with another member who is on this thread. It is time for me to move on and get on with my life as this has taken up so much of my time.
Characters is what we are. Each individual to ourselves. Mistakes I have made, have you not. I see no chains that bind, yet it appears most here are firmly attached. Tis best to examine oneself before examining others.
posted on March 13, 2001 06:48:35 PM new"I am truly becoming a man with no country so to speak."
AG2, there's always the real world! All is not lost, you can turn off the computer and meet some real people! They may not pay you $5,000 to be your friend, but you may meet some interesting people nonetheless.
posted on March 13, 2001 06:52:30 PM new
mtnmama that was just the kind of response I would expect from you. A real person who never takes sides, just straddles the fence <wink wink>
posted on March 13, 2001 06:56:39 PM new
auctiongallery2,
Thank you for the enormous expenditure of time you have taken to add to the knowledge base of the online auction community.
posted on March 13, 2001 07:02:55 PM new #1 Do I answer to you? Nope. Maybe to bidbay now?
#2 Did I promise answers to you? Nope. Yep. You did.
#3 The description of the train ride lasts for about 2 sentences out of that entire post...care to count and check my math while you're at it. The train ride was not the issue
#4 Am I a spokesman for BidBay who should answer all of your questions? Nope. Why not? You were certainly paid enough to be the spokesman.
And I can't find anywhere that says Cooley's record was expunged and only that he was let off probabtion early. Besides he was not only convicted of lying on the sample voter ballot, not a pamplet, but also lying on a VA form.
posted on March 13, 2001 07:13:23 PM new
Oh dear humbled, how you think you know me so well.
Yes I sit on the fence, as I have said before, so you're not telling anyone anything new. I sit, watch, take notes and then when all the dust is settled, I decide what I want to do. Notice, the "I want" part. Not what YOU want, or what THEY want, but what I want.
I believe that's called a business decision. I wouldn't jump into a brick and mortar enterprise any faster. I take my time, weigh both sides and then I (yep, there's that I word again) decide.
Now that's twice I've explained it in two different ways. I'm sure you agree that it's MY choice, not anyone else's. I can't be bought, nor will I ever try to be.
AG-as a matter of fact, you did promise answers and we expected them to be honest. Instead we're getting the old runaround.
Not in so many concise words, but you did say this on your recipe post in which you totally degraded BidBay:
"So I haven't posted again there and don't plan on it until after the trip when I will post one last and final post at BidBay regarding the outcome of my visit."
You haven't posted anything there, but GT is there singing his praises of you and offering to buy the next beer.
I guess people felt that since you took so many of THEIR suggestions and ideas to BidBay, (at least you said you did) that they kind of expected answers here as well. Guess ideas that many of your followers had didn't pan out or they weren't discussed or they were and then dismissed as trivial. Whatever way you look at it, people did expect answers.
posted on March 13, 2001 07:47:34 PM new
I have only one thing to comment on...I for one would have happily have gone to Bidbay all expenses paid PLUS $5000 to sit down for a face to face. It shows no great courage to do so. I have discussed controversial issues via phone and email with GT. I did so for free. I have always voiced my opinion; however, I never put myself out to be a representative of a larger group. I find it slightly presumptuous for any one individual to state they are representing the auction community. Also, if we each accept the "challenge", as you phrase it AG, to ask the hard questions will we get $5000 too? I have no problem with you getting paid~~get it while the gettings good. I do have a problem with YOU issuing US to take a challenge that you got PAID to take...Are you telling everyone that you have issued this challenge to that you would have gone to Bidbay for free and at your own expense to ask these hard questions?
posted on March 13, 2001 07:58:07 PM new
Hey mtnmama!! Great to "see" ya! Been busy with RL stuff and am just catching up on some reading! Take care and shoot me an e some time!~~D
posted on March 13, 2001 08:18:10 PM new
No it does not take great courage to accept 5K Denephew...that is not what I'm referring to.
I am referring to having to come back and take flack from everyone for doing so.
Would I go if I had to pay my own expenses....heck no! And I find it ridiculous that people apparently feel that is exactly what I should have done.
If I lived in the same town as their offices are located this wouldn't even be an issue because I probably would have been there every other day discussing these issues already.
You say it's presumptive of me to claim to speak for the online auction community...once again show me the post where I said that I was going there to do that. In in fact state that "some online users" when referring to the perspective issue.
I stated numerous times before I left that I did not speak for the community and that people needed to get their own voice. It seems that people wanted me to speak for them...and now expect me to provide them with the answers they so desperately seek.
As far as challenges go...reread it...I said "call" the man and ask him the "hard questions." No where did I say visit.
I was in the process of writing a post that would provide a time for me to answer the questions that people want to ask.
But I can see that it will be a complete waste of my time.
I noticed before I even made it back the doubting thomas' began to make their way out and question my integrity just because I stayed an extra day.
Some of you have sat and waited patiently guns loaded prepared to take your shot.
Others want real answers and don't feel the need to attack me.
For those who want answers email me I will do my best to provide them...for the others...I don't owe you a darn thing and you know who you are.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:24:04 PM new
My oh my, how we've changed in such a short time.
AG, you did say you were taking the concerns of the community to BidBay. Now you're saying you didn't mean it that way?
Tell you what, I don't give a rat's patooie what you did or what you learned, or how much money they lined your pockets with, but please stop with the double-talk. There are posts here on AW made by you that say different.
You asked for a link, I found the statement. You know how to find your own posts.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:27:49 PM new
and I followed that up with that I in no way was implying that I spoke for the community...I just had an opportunity to speak directly to BidBay.
Now mind you that is paraphrasing.
Once again...some people complain...and some people take action.
And then some people don't care either way they just want to continue to complain...LOL
posted on March 13, 2001 08:34:50 PM new
AG~~I'm not attacking you in anyway. If you feel I am, you are wrong. Many of us do have our own voice and have asked the hard questions. I for one have not sat with baited breath waiting for your return to AW. I have not been wondering what the answers are. I went to law school, I knew the answers to questions pertaining to legalities before you ever even took up this crusade. I have a library full of Texas codes right here at my fingertips 24/7. I am aware of the workings/regs of the SEC. If I'm ever in doubt I can always ask my BIL who is the CFO of a major "internet type" company that when through an IPO last spring. He lives a few houses down from Bill gates.
Yes, you did go to several boards and solicit folks for concerns they would like presented to Bidbay. Are you now stating that you did so because you were too lazy to come up with issues on your own? Or did you do so because you were offering to ask and get answers to these concerns and questions for others??
I don't think you should be questioned or belittled for taking the money in anyway. Just as you stated GT uses the auction community, you have as well. You are now stating that you went strictly for personal gain. So be it...But why did you make this such a public crusade if it was strictly for your own self satisfation. I know that what is self satisfying solely for me I do not turn into an on-line very public crusade. Nor do I claim great courage or integrity in doing so.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:35:14 PM new
Whatever complaints I had I took directly to BidBay with no monetary compensation. I don't sit idly by waiting for someone with little auction experience to speak for me.
I received my answers and that's really all I care about. Now it's up to me to make my own decisions. You know I was never swayed by your comments, as I told you at least twice before.
But alot of others know that you went from thread to thread asking for input to take with you. Those folks that provided input deserve some answers to their questions. They trusted you would get them answers, but since you refuse to answer other than in e-mail, we must assume you have no answers for them at all. Instead you "instruct" them to call BidBay. Why should they call for free when you got paid to get the answers for them.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:40:51 PM new
AG~~missed your last post. LMAO!!! "Some folks take action and some complain." That's a very strong statement from someone who only took action because they were PAID to. BTW, if no one else had joined in your "action" of complaining on all the boards, you would not have ever been paid...
Like I stated earlier in this thread, all of us would have taken the exact same action for 5K. The person with true courage and integrity would have turned down the 5K and taken other **real** actions.
Actually I do not see Wes Cooley as a problem. I regard all politicians as pathological liars and truly believe that anyone so egotistical to seek public office should automatically be disqualified from it. Representatives should be drawn from lots. Like juries. Nor do I believe his misdemeanors make him a 'criminal'. Hell, in our current draconian society even the term 'felon'is meaningless. But anyway, I regard him as mostly harmless, kinda like Curley.
GT is so far as we know untouched by scandal. He is a tax man, apparently successful in that business, which needs little of the marketing skills so necessary for a dotcom to avoid the inevitiable. Apparently well motivated, but still with a touch of slapstick. Kinda like Moe.
And then there is the other fellow, whose name I forget. Probably the one with the deep pockets. Got in trouble telemarketing in California and under-the-counter sales of stock in Pennsylvania. Got bit in the butt when he tried to beat the system. Can't blame him, and I certainly dont regard him as an evil criminal villain. Got tripped up by some silly schemes. Kinda like Larry.
SO we have the Three Stooges running a Dotcom ready to launch a forthcoming IPO when its SB2 clearly states that they have no forseeable means of generating income. And they do not understand why the spotlight has stayed so focused on them for so long.
It is because they have become a first rate vaudeville act. And they are at center stage.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:53:22 PM new
Denephew that was not all intended for you.
This in fact has been a very personal issue with me. Truth is you are partly responsible...LOL.
It was because I brought up some of these issues at BidBay like the "bloated feedback" post and got blasted by you as well as almost everyone else who participates on the boards and have been continuously attacked on and off for my opinions since then.
This is not to say that I have been 100% right..but again I was not 100% wrong.
That is where most of this began. But I continued to try to work within the system there until I was finally told by numerous members to leave. That is when I began to take my fight elsewhere.
The point I have been trying to make pretty much all day is that I am finished. I am tired of defending myself from attacks on all fronts. I did my part. I went and gave them my input.
In my opinoin there are going to be some definite improvements. Improvements that members here and elsewhere wanted to see. But some here can't be happy with that. They have to complain about me receiving payment for going there.
What people wanted to read from me is not that the meetings were productive...but how bad BidBay is. How they treated me shabbily and refused to listen to anything I had to say. How they are going to continue to run rough shod over anyone who speaks against them.
But that is not what happened. The meetings were productive. BidBay and Company is seeking improvement. They are listening. It just won't happen over night. I plan on giving them time.
But once again...that isn't what people wanted to hear.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:58:18 PM new
I did take those real actions Denephew. The ones you were afraid to take so don't start questioning my courage and integrity.
You and mtnmama both with your emails fearful that they would get in the wrong hands...that is the funniest thing of all.
I rest my case...and you know it.
Bye...I will not be participating in this thread any longer.
posted on March 13, 2001 09:10:27 PM new
No AG, I don't think that anyone wants to hear how bad Bidbay treated you. When you PAY someone and WANT to make a favorable impression so that one will report THAT to others, you usually put on the ole "dog & pony show"...Anyone that thought you would be knocked off or treated shoddily doesn't know a thing about corporate america.
I think some of the questions that folks would like answers to are:
How did ALOT of chatboard ID's become registered at Bidbay with anon/wrong email addys?
Does Bidbay plan on charging a FVF AND a listing fee as they stated in SEC filings?
Do they plan and how do they intend to make Bidbay a viable profitable business? Or are they simply in it for the IPO?
How soon do they need funds from the IPO? What happens if they don't get funds anticipated from the IPO and how soon??
How do they plan on making Bidbay more attractive for serious sellers. Not just the bored housewife who trades in Bidbay bucks?
I know there are others. I can't remember them all; however, if you check the boards where you solicited input the questions are still there. Or did you just ask for input for your own benefit? No offense is meant by the last question. I know a fairly new auction seller as yourself may have needed additional input on some areas.
posted on March 13, 2001 09:21:17 PM new
AG~~I sent you I believe at the most two emails. I was not at all fearful that they would get into the wrong hands or I would not have sent them to you~LMAO! Everything stated in any email I sent you I have posted publicly and sent via email or spoken with GT regarding those very issues.
My friend, I am not fearful at all. I have clearly stated my reason for not making actions regarding issues. It is strictly for one reason and one reason only, my health. Also, it benefits me not in anyway, shape or form. It does harm to a group that has no relation to my RL. I don't hold onto grudges or deem myself the saviour of the auction community. Unless something directly efects my family or me, I don't waste my precious time on time consuming endeavors. Only a moron would invest in Bidbay, as there SEC filings stand now, so I don't need to warn the general public. Their stockbroker can do that.
Now if you feel you have great integrity because you voiced others complaints face to face that is your perception. Perception is reality.
Last post on this thread as I'm not into double talk or tacos.
eidted for spelling...as usual...
[ edited by denephew on Mar 13, 2001 09:26 PM ]
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