For the record I have no gripe or criticism for any of your actions. If the Devil himself offered me $5000 for a pow-wow I would happily oblige. And if the price was right, a few stock options on my soul.
If someone questions your motives or your methods, simply tell them to shove it where the sun dont shine.
I simply respectfully request that you share with us some of that enlightenment you acquired this past week.
Some of the people here may be a little antsy because much of what you said about the visit was vague and unspecific.
But you have answered many of my questions. You said that you felt that they were serious about the businesss, which implied that you felt that they were not going to beat feet come IPO time. You explained to my satisfaction at least, the 'Quiet Period' non-issue. I can understand why you probably feel bad now about this issue in retrospect, since it would appear it was 'much ado about nothing'. But your reply to my venture capital question was puzzling. You said that they are solvent and have earned 200k so far this quarter. From where? From online stores? From advertizers? Certainly there is no advantage whatever in keeping *this* a secret as it could only help their image and drive their stock value from Pesos to Dollars.
It is quite true that you do not owe any of us anything. Not even the time of day. And I feel that you have unjustly been flamed, and over trifling issues. And while I feel that those who have done so are simply wrong, I can also understand that from a more complex perspective that they are being venemous from frustration at accounts they might consider vague or evasive. You have been the unofficial head of a movement which has in the past laid bare all the dirty linen of one of the most fascinating, if comical dotcoms in recent history. You visit the lions den and come back in a condition that many would understandably call 'converted'.
Perhaps a tinge of remorse when you realized that these terribly nice and accomodating people didn't have forked tongues and cloven hooves. You found civility and enthusiasm, and regretted consigning them to the ninth circle after reporting them to every law enforcement agency this side of Tahiti.
Well all this makes it understandable why you no longer wish to be on the attack or offensive on what were at one time important issues. And I for one will not challenge you on that decision. I would find it difficult to castigate anyone who had treated me well.
But I hope you would still be willing to discuss issues. Like the source of their income. Like details of some of the proposed changes. Like their IPO. If you feel that you have wronged them in the past, this would be an ideal way to make things right,
by explaining to critics *what* mistakes were made, and *what* the corrective actions are. We don't expect you to be a choir boy. Just a very capable commentator.
posted on March 13, 2001 11:28:43 PM
AG2, Sorry did not now about your trip was doing other things! If they gave you $5000.00 good for you atleast you got something out of them (I just hope it was not BBbucks.) If you realy went there to help them understand why people dont like them that is good also (Dont think it would do any good the only people they care about is their selves and the Koolaid kid's.) I think if they would allow people to speek freely in their chat that would help, not impress fear. Also all the games dont work you get hits but mainly from people trying to get the BBBucks and no bid's. Bidbay could become a very good site but they need to except neg remarks all this I love GT and other stuff is great but not if you are unhappy with something and they boot you for your comment. It would also be nice if they put up their real numbers on the front page not counting contest listings for 1 cent and hits from game players searching for prizes DUH. Well like I was saying glad you had a good trip and made it home safe. AG2 I did not think you worked for bidbay I thought you worked for K-mart, Wal-mart or BooHoo lol. I still dont no why you spend so much time running down other auction sites. I am A Bidville cheerleader GO BIDVILLE.
I just went to Bidbay chat liked the way you and GT have become good friends almost got a tear. I no you changed your mind because you better understand GT and his family. Maby he will do the same for me the trip would be nice and the money would help. But the facts are still the same you have not brong anything to light just the same old Bidbay line (Dont believe what you hear or see just what Bidbay tells you.) Let them change the way they treat people with complaints let them become a auction site instead of A game room and be honest with the numbers. I do wonder about some of the charges brong up on this board and others against their higherups! But you say they are OK so that is that (Not).
[ edited by telwil on Mar 14, 2001 01:30 AM ]
Once again I appreciate the comments. I will pull myself out lurker mode yet again to answer a few of your questions I will just avoid the integrity attacks for now.
It is not my attempt to be vague, I just don't feel that I should be the one to answer some questions as I am not the CEO or CFO of BidBay and am not qualified to do so.
I will however try to answer some of those questions to the best of my knowledge. But would like to state for the record that I do not speak for BidBay. Please do not construe my statements as a matter of fact. I am only paraphrasing as best I can remember. It is late at night and I do not have all of my notes with me.
As far as income is concerned it was due to a few of the things you have mentioned. Advertisement, as well as online stores. I don't believe that was all...and the number was actually around 380K.
My presentation centered around what the general perception of BidBay is by the online auction community as I personally experienced from reading these and other boards as well as by what people emailed me.
The first topic discussed the CEO and Shareholders of BidBay.
I broke it down into three categories:
a. Donald Dayer
b. Wes Cooley
c. George Tannous
We spoke of Donald Dayers past including the troubles in Pennsylvania.
The problem began as it was explained to me was that when Mr. Dayer experienced his problems with the FCC in California he was then required to put forth a bond (approx 200K it is late I do not have my notes in front of me) anytime he was to sell investments in FCC licences. When he attempted to sell stocks in Pennsylvania they were of the opinion that he violated that order by not submitting the bond...however he was not offering up investments in FCC licenses but stocks in BidBay. The matter is still being handled.
Regarding Wes Cooley. I do not know the full story of why or how but everything was expunged regarding his legal issues.
Regarding George. The issues I discussed with him were the ones that surrounded his behaviour on some of the boards and how it was unbecoming of a CEO of a highly visible company.
He understood and agreed. I also came to the conclusion though that I was in part responsible for some of that as some of my posts were rather provoking and I didn't let up at times. I think any of us would eventualy respond in ways we wish we hadn't.
Anyway I then moved onto the perception of the site in general.
I did bring up the numbers regarding the recipes, the item count vs auction count, as well as the amount of registered users.
I have stated in the past that BidBay enjoyed those recipe listings because it pumped up the numbers. I soon found out that this was the furthest thing from the truth. I did not just gather this information from speaking to George but to some of the tech guys as well.
Regarding the item count vs auction count numbers. The only answer I came away with is they are attempting to accentuate the positive. Can it be seen as deceptive? Sure. But is it. No. They state as clear as day on their front page over 1 million "items" in so many categories.
Regarding the registered users. There are that many registered users on the site. Some of these were obtained through simple every day registration...others obtained through people choosing to join through other web sites such as speedy click. Basically what happens is when a new member of the site they contract with registers they can click a button that okays certain companies to send them an email about their services. The user then chooses whether or not to go to that company and join. So these are real users. Are they all active on the site? No. But they are real.
Regarding denephew's comment earlier about the AD mess and the users claiming that their identities were stolen by BidBay some if not most of those claims were by people with user id's that were pretty common. That was my opinion even when I first began to read about it that night all heck broke loose over there.
I discussed the contests as well as the charity raffles. I also brought in copies of Texas Code that pretty much showed that they both did not meet certain requirements under Texas Law. I also brought case law that showed that companies could be cited as well as charged for crimes in other states for things such as these.
So far the answer has been to suspend the contests. That is not just my doing. They were considering it before for various reasons but the issues that have been raised did have an effect as well.
I then moved onto other aspects of the site including it's member base. I was the lucky guy who got to explain to them what the joke was behind the koolaid remarks.
George actually thought it was funny...LOL
I do not wish to go into detail what was discussed here...not because I have anything to fear but I have already done the members there enough damage and do not wish to inflict more.
Basically it has all been said here before.
I am just summarizing a meeting that began upon our return from lunch and did not end until almost 6 PM that evening.
We discussed each and every topic thoroughly...along with suggestions on improvement.
Now regarding their IPO. These people are quite confident in what they have to offer.
Some of the things I have seen included BidBay Australia, their ideas regarding AD, Snuze.com as well as auction brief. Promotions were discussed, and some of them were quite impressive to say the least. These promotions will be hot news items to say the least...and I am not speaking of ust the PT cruiser. I will show these people the same respect they showed me and won't divulge that information by choice. As I stated earlier they entrusted me with a lot of information regarding certain matters and I intend to act responsibly with it.
People keep talking about a dog and pony show. This is not at all what I experienced. There is not an area within one block of the building that houses their offices that people aren't talking about George and Yvonne. These are two people who have had an impact on their community and have made it their goal to support the citizens of that community as well as the other businesses.
I was not taken out and wined and dined, we went to "hole in the wall" diners and cafe's where of course you find the best meals and just enjoyed each others company.
What I experienced was a boss who genuinely cares for his employees as well. Who takes the time to joke and kid with them. They are in fact opening up a martial arts studio in one of their buildings where even the staff is going to get together and train.
I have made references to cults regarding the company and it's members as have others. And it may very well apply...LOL...but then it would apply to those people who lived on nothing but coca-cola and slept in their offices for weeks on end at Microsoft you know the ones who are now millionaires which some have already retired.
These are everyday people like you and me just trying to grab a piece of the American dream.
Yes I feel bad about some of my attacks. I did bring up valid points. Issues that needed to be brought up. Yes BidBay made mistakes, but then so have I and so have we all.
I know I did not answer all of your questions and will do my best to in the future.
AG2
Edited to add that I do know there are plenty of mistakes in spelling etc...but it is rapidly approaching 3 a.m. here and I am too tired to go through and correct them....sorry...LOL
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 14, 2001 12:17 AM ]
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 14, 2001 12:28 AM ]
posted on March 14, 2001 12:33:44 AM
AG~~nice post. I am sure THAT post WILL be accepted and appreciated by those whose input you solicited.
BTW, dog & pony shows are generally of the "I am just an average Joe" type. It allows the "viewer" to be more comfortable and relaxed. It's how most politicians try to be perceived.
Also, I would not put a whole lot of stock into the *idea* that you have top secret information. You **know** only what they want you to know. I am sure that by sharing this "info" with you, they felt you would view it as a sign of trust.
I think I'll retire from this board for good and turn in the ID. Too much importance placed on "air".
posted on March 14, 2001 12:48:21 AM
Denephew once again you have made a mountain out of a mole hill.
I never said this was top secret information that only I knew. I just said that I would respect the fact that they entrusted me with certain information and would handle it responsibly. By that I mean let them disseminate that information when and how they see fit. I find it disturbing that you have problems with that. I for one do respect others wishes for privacy when they share information with me as there are so many people on this thread alone I am doing that for...and they all know who they are.
Once again I wrote a post that did not comply with the wishes of some.
It wasn't negative. It actually discussed BidBay in a positive light.
posted on March 14, 2001 01:06:56 AM
With every post you become more and more the bidbay spokesman.
You accept the felony convictions as being nothing.
The item count could be seen as deceptive but is not according to you now.
Millions of registered users but the vast majority don't even know they belong to bidbay and that is real?
All of the user names on AD were common? Even Zelda's with her email address? And other ID's that were uncommon were registered.
These are everyday people like you and me just trying to grab a piece of the American dream. No. These are people trying to hustle the American dream, something like Elron Hubbard or Jim Jones.
Amazing what five grand and a two day dog and pony show will do to integrity.
posted on March 14, 2001 01:14:29 AM
AG~~I really tire of this banter. I find no earth shattering or even slightly enlightening relevations in your account of your Bidbay meeting. I am beginning to understand why your first account was so vague. IMHO, YOU are the one who has made a mountain out of a molehill. If you want to be king of that mountain so be it.
I don't know if the confidential information bit is intended for me, as far as any confidential info I have shared with you...I do not *know* you to share anything with you that would hurt my feelings if you exposed it. This is cyber, not the real world. Also, if that is a hint to someone else that's fine. But do you really think that what so and so said about so and so in cyber really matters? It's very easy for one to turn off the computer.
Power trips can be a great high~~enjoy yours while it lasts.
This is offically my last AW post~~not out of fear but out of pure boredom.
posted on March 14, 2001 01:40:20 AM
newguy I have avoided your posts throughout the night mainly because they are ridiculous...but will address this one so you won't feel left out.
I am not the bidbay spokesman...people asked for answers to questions I have tried to answer them.
Where did I say that I accept the felony convictions as being nothing? I stated the topics I addressed and the answers given to me.
Regarding the item count. Can it be seen as deceptive? I said yes. But is it? No...and I gave an answer. The reason is because they themselves se the word "item" in their count numbers on the front page. If they had claimed to have over a million auctions that would truly be deceptive...sad you can't tell the difference.
Yes million of users on BidBay. Can you or I prove they are not real? NO. I explained how they obtained some of those users and BidBay has the contracts to back up what they have stated.
I also used the words "some" and "if not most" I didn't say all of the users id's on AD were common. You are putting words and changing the context of my posts and not really doing that good of a job.
And the guy's name is L. Ron Hubbard.
I think most of you guys are missing the point.
BidBay has made mistakes. I have done plenty to show that. What I am saying now is I have done what I intended to do. Discuss it with them...sure I got paid. But now it's time for me to step back move on with my life and let them make the corrections and improve on their site.
Whether or not they choose to follow all or any of my advice will ultimately be their choice. However I will say again that I believe they intend to do whatever it takes to correct these issues and make an attempt at regaining some of the trust of the online auction community.
I just don't see what I have to gain by continuing the attacks without first giving these people the chance to make the corrections. It's not productive for anyone.
BidBay has pulled the recipes off of the counts. They have removed members from their database who have requested it. They have suspended the contests. They are making improvements in how they handle flare ups on their chat boards by using tools like locking threads instead of deleting them. There is plenty of other things that they will need to work on and plan on working on. They are meeting the demands of the consumers....what more can you ask for?
I will say this again...some of you are just not happy with my posts because it isn't bashing BidBay.
You wanted me to come here and state how the meetings were unproductive...how BidBay wouldn't listen and wouldn't make these types of improvements. I'm sorry I can't honestly say that is what happened.
posted on March 14, 2001 02:13:42 AM
snakebit said:
"Nor do I believe his misdemeanors make him a 'criminal'."
Not a misdemeanor, it was a felony. He is a convicted felon!
Also, one of the other owners was convicted of securities fraud and lost his license to act as a broker. That is the reason that BidBay can't sell stock in Pennsylvania.
posted on March 14, 2001 02:19:00 AM
AG2, glad to see that your trip was safe and sound. Take a deep breath and count to ten I don't think that anybody here is attacking you, I certainly am not. I think that people are simply opening up a debate with you. Isn't that what you used to do, open debates on touchy subjects?
Regarding your comment about my e-mails that I didn't want to get out? Excuse me, sir, you initiated exactly two e-mails to me and those I answered with honesty. I e-mailed you one time to tell you about your credibility and you became very defensive as you are now being here. I have said the same things to BidBay myself, so where is it written that I wanted to hide them?
I asked if you held statements of confidence only because I didn't really trust you not to discuss me with other members.
As far as all the psychobabble you presented here, GT was on the message boards asking members for their input on contests, etc. He didn't just "take your word."
Everything you've said here has been hashed and rehashed at BidBay for a long, long time.
If your only concern was Wes Cooley, Dyer and GT's behavior, I'm sure that could have been handled via the telephone.
Did you actually discuss anything productive, like deadbeat bidders, user verifications, etc? I think not, as those things didn't concern you at all. They concerned the betterment of the auction site.
I don't think anything you've posted here the past few months has anything to do with the members, you alone cannot inflict harm on anyone by mere words. Besides, what kind of harm can be inflicted by telling what really went on? None, except maybe to yourself.
And that's all I'm going to say on the matter and to you. I told you your credibility was gone and you begged me not to think that way. The time has come for you to realize that it is gone, totally. No one will believe your rants any longer.
posted on March 14, 2001 04:37:50 AMAG2:
I guess you are regarding my posts in the ignore catagory. I have always enjoyed your posts and hope that you continue to post here.
I do have a question that I want to know if GT answered: What did he say about the stolen templates from AW? That one really bothered me as I have had other sellers steal my pictures and my wordage (not sure if that is an actual word).
Are you going to selling again on BidBay? If not, where? Having actually gone to a visit an online auction business, do you have any ideas or stratagies, that we as sellers can do to bring business to BidVille or another free auction site of our choice? Thanks in advance, if you answer my post.
posted on March 14, 2001 06:31:39 AM
someone said "And that's all I'm going to say on the matter and to you".
I say "Thank You God!"
I too am disapointed in the whole deal but I think we all knew from the get go that the 5K was nothing but hush money! Now as stated before I will happily take the same challenge, only I can mail mine and save the air fare. 5K can buy my silence forever regarding Bidbay. I would comsider it a "consolation prize" for all the damage they have done to me by treating me differently than they did other POSTERS over there. I too spoke with GT several times on the phone. Frankly I was not impressed. His comments of just "drinking more scotch" to handle all the controversy didn't impress me at all. I never thought I could be bought!!!! But hey, times are hard and you know what they say!!!I beieve that if AG2 can look at himself in the mirror and be happy with what he sees, we should leave him alone. The only difference in what he did and what another poster here and there does is take the money. You cannot serve two masters. You must be either for or against. At least that is my opinion but then you know what they say about opinions......
I LOVE the three stooges analogy!!!!! EXACTLY!! and we will see them fall and personally I can't wait!!!!!
MEOW pft pft!!
>^,,^^,,^<
posted on March 14, 2001 06:43:37 AM
WOW, I'm such a ________, AG2. Please fill in the line. (read between the line)
AG2, glad you make peace with your enemy, but not with me,
now it seen like people are attacking you,
let me be the first one to tell you you're full of #*!@.
Like I said before people like you are a dine a dozen.
A blade with double edge.
so i guess your personal vendettas is over with bidbay,
oh for the record i do support bidbay 100%
but i have integrity,
do you think if i run an auction for some integrity you will bid on it
as you definably need some.
no need to run to the moderator conner, as i will sign my name on this post
and they can see i just register today,
posted on March 14, 2001 07:09:11 AM
Funny how quickly people turn on one another.
I do not know AG2 I have only had correspondence with him once or twice, because I was curious about what drove his passionate distaste for bidbay. I'm amazed at the things some people take so personally, so I inturn ask questions, out of sheer curiosity.
So I'm asking why this is so personal to so many of you. And why someone so adamantly against something is branded a sellout because he took it upon him or herself to meet his or her problem head on. I agree with the statement that if he were to come here and bash the company in question then some people (notice I said some) would be hanging on his every word and cheering. But because he saw things in a different light he is branded a "cult follower" which btw I find laughable. I don't agree with everything the site in question has done I also know that it is run by humans and humans tend to be fallible. So they will make mistakes and hopefully correct them as they grow. I dont believe their intentions were malicious. But most of you do not list there or buy there, so why direct your energy toward them in such a negative way? Why wish them failure? Why not direct your energy, and time in a more postive way. I do realize that AG2 was a sort of spokesperson(for lack of a better word) to alot of you, and you expected a different outcome. But to act like he somehow was paid for his silence, or somehow brainwashed by these all so powerful beings, because you don't agree with his outcome is just plain silly.
Snakebait said it better than I could, so scroll back and read his or her post lol
posted on March 14, 2001 07:53:00 AM
nor do I and I thought plastering peoples personal lives on AW's boards was against the CG's. hmmmmmmmmmm
MEOW pft pft!!
>^,,^^,,^<
While I am certainly not here to bash you, I DO take exception to one statement about BidBay and it's membership rolls.
You stated that BidBay told you they removed any ID from their database that has been requested. As of this posting, my ID still comes up with a "0" feedback profile. How do I know it is "my" ID? I requested the password, which came to my email address. However, when entering the password, I am locked out of the account.
I requested that all info be removed from the database on February 20th. It still has not been done. So, the information provided to you is/was not accurate.
Anyone wishing to check for the accuracy of this statement, please go to the site, click on the "feedback" link and plug in this ID and post your findings.
posted on March 14, 2001 09:34:17 AM
deichen the ignoring would respond to you if you wish instead of asking me questions to attack me.
AuctionGaurd For people to say I drank the koolaide and it was lime flavored and green the color of money is not a debate. It is an insinuation that I have sold out.
But to answer your question regarding the AW Templates.
At first the discussion went to PHP vs. HTML. That is still an answer I just don't agree with.
But in the end the answer was pretty simple. It was a stupid mistake that they corrected.
Newguy.
That "bomb" post is from a user on BidBay...not a representative of BidBay. That user tries to stir up trouble and I find it disturbing that AW has continued to allow it to stand.
I have personally posted on alleycatpft's thread in the moderator's corner asking why it has not been dealt with.
Toollady.
If what you say is correct then you have the right to take exception. I don't know the particulars of each case or any case for that matter but I have met the guy who is in charge of handling that and I can tell you he is just a regular working stiff like anyone else here on this board and isn't trying to help mastermind some take over of the world by starting with user id's.
I also don't know how they handle that exactly. By locking you out that just might be their way of deleting the account. No one can use it if the name is taken and just locked up therefore it would seem you wouldn't have a problem with someone coming in there and creating that same user id on BidBay and selling or buying under it. Personally that seems like the better solution. Because once again if they deleted the entire account including the user name then it would or should be available to the next person coming in there who desires it.
While what you are saying makes sense, this also more than likely helps to "pump" the numbers for the membership rolls.
There was also mention on the BB boards at one point by the PTB about the entering of IDs at a rate of ??? per day. Now, if these new "members" were actually legitimate accounts, then why were the PTB entering the IDs and not allowing the new members to register for themselves?
I'm sorry to say it, but, it sounds like you were sweet talked by a smooth operator.
In our current police state the term 'felon' has lost all the negative connotations it once had. In a land where high school kids can become 'felons' for boinking each other, or even drawing graphic pictures, where people can become 'felons' for growing the 'wrong' kind of herb - I would consider the epithet a mark of abuse by an insane system.
In short, I do not see Dayer and Cooley as criminals, or even necessarily dishonest people. AG2 has satisfactorily explained Dayers dilemma. He got tripped up by obscure and Byzantine FCC rules (Gawd how I wish they'd abolish the FCC!), followed by equally obscure SEC regulations. I might buy a used car from this guy.
Cooley, as a politician and a lawyer is a professional liar. As are they all. He got tripped up by an obscure regulation somewhere along the line that a politician *had* to tell the truth. At least he was consistant. And it is a common legal procedure to have charges 'expunged' after a number of years if the offense was not very serious. However, I would welcome him as a neighbor. But I would *not* buy a used car from him.
And the Template issue? Trivial is an understatement. Even *I* have mildly plagiarized some ads.
AG2
Oh yes. You need to ask some of the people here if they know the meaning of the word C*O*N*S*U*L*T*A*N*T. If not I would recommend a remedial English class for them.
Your last reply actually cleared up many fundamental questions. It is good to hear that they are generating revenue. And I would assume from the gist of your statements that they are beginning to diversify services.
The Kool-Aid Cult was probably inevitable considering the carrot-and-stick mentality engendered by the contests and BidBay Bucks. Kinda what I would call Post Industrial Feudalism. The 'Gimme free things and I will worship you forever' mentality was probably not planned, but they have played it up. The unprofessionalism of the CEO lays not in his folksy, down home, slap-on-the-back g'd mornin' business style. But rather the avoidance of serious questions, and feeble attempts to persecute non-believers. And having their techs make smiley faces when their search engine needed overhaul.
It is true that they have said ITEMS and not AUCTIONS on their counts. But it is these numbers that they have promulgated through their advertising. But it is kinda like me trying to sell my computer as a 465,000 kHZ
Pentium II Celeron. This might seem to most as a supercomputer, though the ad would be clearly disingenuous since I am not using a *common unit*. If the weatherman said that the temperature tomorrow would be 273 degrees, would the average person know enough to get out the winter clothes?
So I can only assume that the 'Items' and not 'Auctions' numbers were clearly meant to deceive, and I will not be satisfied that they have 'mended their evil ways' until they rectify this matter.
Let me clarify. As an emigree from Yahoo, in the closing days of my auctions there I set out to find a viable replacement. I went to www.millionauctionmarch.com and carefully read the stats for all the auctions. It *seemed* that BidBay was clearly the front runner in this category. As a result I spent alot of time and effort migrating hundreds of Yahoo listings to that site. Excuse me if I did not see that distinction between 'Items' and 'Auctions'. Then I went on the BidBay message board and asked some pointed questions about sales. I was given lovely motivational responses on how great the site was. But fortunately I barely noticed amidst those responses at the lower edge of the end in small print there was something about some messages below threshold. I clicked on that link and found that a bunch of other people had responded with warnings and advice about how sales could only be expected in BBB and $1 categories. These were 'rated' as -1 so the average person would not see them. They were right. I sold only one item in six weeks. I do feel that I was misled by this company. They cost me alot of time. And potentially sales. Another user there was vigorously attacked for simply asking what categories had the best sales. In fairness the management did not participate. It is nice to see that they are not deleting threads anymore. I would like to see that 'rating' nonsense abolished though.
Other dotcoms are probably even more devious and dishonest. And even potentially harmful to their users. Need I mention PAYPAL?
Though BidBay has gained a reputation for being deceptive, at least they are not malicious. Even their attempts at being 'disruptive' are little more than sending a few rah-rahs over to sing their praises. Kinda cute. And I would be the first one to state that AW has been unduly harsh on them. Please understand that your original 'beef' with them is very different from that of most people. You were frightened by their Scientology-like threats and antics. Most of us are upset about being hooked in by their PT Barnum sales techniques. Especially me. I should have known better.
But I also understand AW's viewpoint on this matter, although I might not totally agree with it. For example someone might come over from Bidville and say:
"On Bidvuille I had 20 sales last week out of 110, with an average of a dozen page hits per item. I like this auction and would highly recommend it"
A typical BidBay user would come here and say:
" I just love BidBay! It is so nice and friendly, and even the CEO will wish you good morning! Its just a WONDERFUL place to be with so many goodies like nickle items and contests! You can have a wonderful evening searching for BidBay Billy! "
It is unfortunate that some users, like mrfanini simply do not understand the fundamental difference between these two statements. That the first is informative, and the second, cloying. Or why the second positively inspires the wrath of the resident moderators.
I would hope that George be allowed to return here (Hear me moderators?) and state his case on neutral turf. This would not only be fair, but would also take alot of burden off you, AG2. He needs to understand that most of his current critics would be willing to go to bat for him if he deals squarely and honestly with issues and concerns. With no 'secrets'. Your typical online consumer is a bit too savvy these days to be impressed with publicity campaigns centered around 'long anticipated' launches or releases. I remember the secrecy and the games played by Microsoft around the original release of Windows95. Kind of a joke since most of us online had it months before it hit the shelves!
posted on March 14, 2001 10:03:42 AM
And mrfanini welcome back.
I would advise you from getting personal again and suggest you edit out your comments that I am full of *&^%.
That will only get you suspended once again and I would hate to have to listen to you cry over spilled milk blaming it on me...again.
I would also like to state that I find it funny that you can't accept the fact that I am in part admitting I was wrong.
I am not saying I was 100% wrong I am saying I was not 100% right.
Is it a bad time to admit that...I guess it is since I just returned from the trip. I guess it would have been better for me to wait a couple of weeks blast BidBay on the boards calling them anything and everything and then come out and say I was wrong...NOT!
That would have been deceptive. In my opinion that would have shown a lack of integrity and would signify a definite buyout. No I came right back into the fray knowing that people already expected me to be bought out and posted that I thought the meetings were productive and am now facing the accusations.
It's strange how naive people are. If they would only sit back and analyze this I think they would see how honest I am being at this point and time. I have something to lose by posting a positive outcome and everything to gain by posting a negative outcome. Just because I was given 5K for my trip does not mean that I can't post anything negative as I did not sign any non-disclosure agreements regarding BidBay, AD, Snuze, Auctionbrief. I have just chosen not to. In other words I could have my cake and eat it to.
You yourself claimed I would be coming back on this board bashing BidBay because I'm an old dog who can't be taught new tricks.
You can't have it both ways my man. If I had come in here bashing BidBay it would be the I told you so speech. You would also be asking me how I could accept such generosity from someone and still treat them so badly. The same arguements I have heard time and time again.
posted on March 14, 2001 10:17:25 AM
snakebait...excellent post.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I can see clearly that you are getting my point and not letting emotions control your thoughts or actions.
There is indeed plenty of room for improvement. What I was impressed with was that they intend to make those improvements and just figured I'd give them a chance to.
I guess they deserve that. We have asked and prodded and by we I am referring to the many posters who have made their complaints known on that board and this one and they are making an effort.
My last and final challenge to BidBay and Company was that they had to rebuild the trust that they have lost with some in the online auction community. They have already rebuilt some of it with me...one of their most vocal critics and that was just by being open and receptive to change.
posted on March 14, 2001 11:03:53 AM
AG2, you said about the AW templates, "But in the end the answer was pretty simple. It was a stupid mistake that they corrected."
Explain to me please how this was a "mistake"? The templates plainly displayed AW information. They had to be deliberately copied from AW. I see no "mistake" here other than they apparently thought no one would notice.
I don't think that anybody here is attacking you, I certainly am not. I think that people are simply opening up a debate with you. Isn't that what you used to do, open debates on touchy subjects?
