posted on June 15, 2006 05:25:53 AM new
Nina my terrier, wasn't eating and was lethargic so took her to the vet. He did blood tests and finds she has no platelets. He says she has autoimmune disease. More tests are coming up. Looks like a long drawn out and expensive future for her. Anybody had this experience??
posted on June 15, 2006 06:12:01 AM new
Niel - check out this website (it says bearded collies but read about the tick-borne diseases that mimic autoimmune disorders). Erlichiosis and some of the other tick-borne diseases are often misdiagonsed as immune disorders etc. The treatment is a simple ( and cheap) regimen of doxycyclene.
http://beardie.net/bcca/health/articles/tick_disease.shtml
Make certain that your vet has tested for these diseases before shelling lots of $ for other treatments.
My dog had a mystery autoimmune disease several years ago and my Vet referred me to the U of Minnesota for assessment - that trip cost me several hundred $ and they still didn't have a diagnosis and wanted several thousands to do more evaluation. I declined and they asked if I wanted to put him down right then and there. I didn't want to give up on him that soon.
My daughter and I read about erlichiosis on the internet and the symptoms sounded EXACTLY like what Doodle exhibited. I asked the vet if the recommended antibiotic treatment would HURT my dog and she said no and prescribed it for him (her dosage was much lower than the recommended dose I found on a website so I increased it - my dog could not even stand up!). Long story short- he recovered (though he never could jump on the bed again) and is 12 years old now - he had a couple of relapses (the disease can be chronic) but I just gave him the doxycyclene again and he bounced back.
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posted on June 15, 2006 08:05:25 AM new
Thanks Neglus - she is always looking for frogs and bites into them and froths at the mouth. We stick her in the sink and rinse out her mouth and she seems fine. Maybe this has something to do with it. I will show this article to the vet when we go on Monday. Her symptoms sure go along with the Erlichiosis. off her food, low platelet counts, anemia irritability. Will let you know. The vet wants to do bone marrow tests among others.
posted on June 15, 2006 08:29:57 AM new
Maybe you could call the vet and see if you can just get a prescription of doxycyclene started before the appointment (my vet supplied me the pills and I don't think they cost $10) -if your dog is in early stages you could maybe see improvement after a few days and I don't think that it has many side effects as long as it is given with food (I put it inside a little bit of hot dog). We finally decided that we were not going to spend the thousands of dollars to perform every test in the world with uncertain outcome and if antibiotics wouldn't HURT - what the heck!
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posted on June 15, 2006 02:11:10 PM new
Ralphie & I have been going thru HELL the past few months with his tummy...
Back in MAY, I took him in for his usual oil change, tire rotation, etc -- but I told the Vet -- DR MENGELE -- that I didn't want ant vaccinations, as I had read nast things about them, and anyway, the AVMA was now recommending changing the schedule (except for RABIES) for vaccinations to 3-7 years for boosters!
He refused to see Ralph unless he could give him the 2 vaccines scheduled that day (?Bortedella?Corona?). So, I let him do it...BIG MISTAKE!
I left the kid overnight for bath & toenails; spa and mudpacks -- you know, all the regular stuff...
Went in the next day to get him & he was having some kind of attack right there in front of me on the floor! He was making this extremely LOUD HIGH PITCHED WHEEZE & the secretart was trying to pawn him off on me as..."normal for that kind of dog!"
I threw a s-fit! Demanded that the VET re-examine him! DR MENGELE said Ralphie was FINE!!?? I took him home & he spent the next TWO HOURS panting on the kitchen floor with his respirations up in the stratosphere, and his head in my lap. HE WAS SUFFERING!
Finally, he fell asleep after 2 hours, and, when he awoke 1 hour later, he was back to his normal obnoxious self...
But, ever since this episode, his DIGESTIVE SYSTEM has been a DISASTER + he has lost a SMALL PATCH of fur on his side...
I took him in again 3 weeks ago & they did blood work for HYPO-THYOIDISM, but that was NEGATIVE and cost me $55 I don't have...
His tummy is still a mess and now and then he CRIES and I really can't handle it when he cries...
Anyway, I'm changing VETS next week, and, hopefully this new one will be able to solve our problem...
HE EATS before I DO (IOW: i spend moola on him before I spend it on me), but I really don't have the bucks to spend on expensive vet bills, even though I promised him when he was a baby that he didn't have to worry -- he'd always have a loving home & GOOD EATS and excellent health care...IT'S A PACT BETWEEN US, ya know what I mean?
I know it's silly to get so worked up over a DAWG, but I can't help it -- we spend all day together: we do 1/2 hour of DING DONG SCHOOL and 1/2 hour of PLAY everyday, in addition to his 4 walks everyday.
BUT: He's my best bud and this whole mess (especially when he cries) has me really off the wall...
posted on June 15, 2006 02:27:17 PM new
tom, It is NOT normal for a dog to exhibit those symptoms after having a vaccine unless the poor dog was given with a cheaper vaccine that dogs are more prone to be allergic to. I saw this a few years ago. I had to take my dog to the emergency vet. As I was waiting there, about 6 dogs came in with the same symptoms. Turns out that they got their dogs vaccinations at the humane society which had just changed their source of vaccine to a cheaper one. Food for thought
posted on June 15, 2006 02:45:52 PM new
Doesn't it just break your heart when the critters are sick! -----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
He's such a goofy little doofus -- if ya met him you'd LOVE him...everybody in the neighborhood is nuts over him! I swear, people stop their cars & yell out the window: "Hi! Ralphie!" One HALLOWEEN, a Mom and her daughter stopped him on the sidewalk just to model their outfits for him -- he's looking at me like he wanted to say: "Yo! Old man! What's up with these TWO??!!"
posted on June 15, 2006 03:34:18 PM new
I know what you mean! The day we brought Doodle (a tiny Schnoodle) home to live with us, he chased our two cats into a closet and one of them scratched his eye. Of course this was on a weekend so I had to take him to an emergency vet ($500)who gave us eyedrops, a cone, and told us to take him to the reg vet on Monday. I took him to the reg vet ($300) who gave us DIFFERENT eye drops and referred us to a doggie opthomologist ($700). The doggie opthamologist recommended surgey and still could not guarantee that he would have sight in the injured eye. I think the surgery 12 years ago would have cost $2500!!!! All of this for a cute little puppy we had had for a week! I decided not to do the surgery and to take my chances with the eye (if he lost it I decided we would just keep his hair long) - he didn't lose his eye but never has had sight in it. He got along just fine.
It's so hard to know what is necessary treatment and what isn't - the vets don't help much as they have evolved from horse doctors to "Wellness Centers" (not kidding, that is the name of a local vet's office here).
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posted on June 15, 2006 04:15:18 PM new
that reminds me of the round-a-bout we had with our Yorkie Stetson.
He just went limp one day. Normally he is full of p*ss and vinegar. Took him to the vet and they gave him antibiotic. Two days later he felt better.
A month or so later he did the same thing. Dog didn't move, eat or drink water. I took him back to the same Vet after talking with my vet tech daughter and she said ask if they do blood tests in house. Anyway - long story (they said yes on the phone, no when I got there) and several days later the Vet called and said there was nothing on the blood tests except his blood sugar was low.
Took him to ANOTHER vet, they did stool samples and he had coccidia from eating cat poopee. A very heavy round of antibiotics and he was fine after that.
I can't even begin to tell you here what I called that other Vet. It wasn't nice.
BTW Tom (and others) - my daughter also said that the VETS don't give their dogs all those vaccinations. If they are in house or on a lease, forgetaboutit. I did break down and get them Rabies because of the Possum Stetson got ahold of. If he had not been current on his rabies they would of put him down. I only give him those because he is a wild child always out in the woods.
posted on June 15, 2006 05:16:42 PM new
I had a holistic Vet in Miami. Very different ideas. Another vet told me they really don't need rabies shot for about every 3 years, but in order to get a license, they insist on it. Poor Ralphie, hope you do change vets, Tom. See if you can find a holistic in Jax. there is one in St. A, but haven't contacted him yet.
posted on June 15, 2006 05:18:34 PM new
That doesn't even count the trauma we had with our first Yorkie. She had liver shunt and died when she was two months old. She went into seizures and we took her to 4 different vets over the two month period.
The fourth Vet (the one I'm using now) heard the symptoms and said "Liver Shunt". We were going to take her to Auburn U to have her operated on if she had pulled through the weekend. She didn't.
Tom - I wonder if you can't find a BT rescue group online and ask them. I know the Yorkie rescue group I work with have 2 different Vets on the board that are wonderful about giving advice etc. They could at least steer you in the right direction perhaps.
Had the same experience, very lethargig, most unusual for an Irish Setter. The vet suspected tick borne erlichiosis, but she was never sure & never really found out if that was the cause. It remains a mystery. Our Setter had a platelet count of 22 & dropped to 11 the next day. She was extremly critical.
She needed a transfusion & fast, fresh whole blood, not frozen, FRESH.
We & the vet called everyone & finally found another doctor that had a donor dog. Our dog was transfused directly from the donor & the next day she as if nothing had ever happened. Back to normal, good as new, bad as ever & never sick again.
The cure was as simple as a transfusion, but it had to be fresh, not frozen whole blood. The doctor was right on about that.
Don't give up. I know it can get expensive, but money is replacable & a pet never is.
posted on June 15, 2006 06:47:09 PM new
Poor Ralphie - #@$# vet that put him through it! I'm still mourning the loss of Sunshine - our Golden Retriever (Christian Scientist, he was - he only agreed to go to the non-invasive Vet every 5 years or so - for our benefit, not his). He died of old age (for a GR) at 15 at the hands of the same compassionate vet. A better dog was never found (sorry, Ralphie). Edited to add: Moody Mommy - did you mention anal leakage (to be polite) as an aftermath of Doodle's treatment?
[ edited by pixiamom on Jun 15, 2006 06:54 PM ]
posted on June 15, 2006 06:49:29 PM new
Niel - there is also an excellent Animal Hospital in Orange Park - it's connected with the one in Gainesville. They are very very expensive but worth it for advanced treatment - but hopefully it won't come to that.
Tom - Do you have another Vet picked out? We must take care of our Ralphie.
As for vaccinations..... I lost my wonderful "Charlie" within 7 hours of getting him vaccinated. He had a seizure about a month & a half before that. We had taken him for blood work and they had him on antibiotics. He seemed back to normal so we took him with us when we had the other dogs vaccinated. Before the doctor give Charlie his shots I ask if he was sure it would be OK as we still didn't know actually what was wrong with him. He said it will be fine. Well it wasn't!!! It broke my heart.
I will never step foot in Herschel Animal Clinic again!!
posted on June 15, 2006 06:53:55 PM new
When our Lacy was 4 we discovered that she had totally lost her sight to cataracts in a very short time. Her hair was over her eyes so we didn't notice till we had her groomed. She was getting around the house and yard without our knowing she could not see anything. At the time the cost was about $3,000 for lens implants. It was a struggle to find the money but we have never regretted it. After 6 years she can see a fly on the ceiling and is going strong.
Hope all of you with sick animal babies have happy outcomes.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on June 15, 2006 07:25:28 PM new
thanks everyone for your advice. Lady, when I had her checked the vet said she had No platelets. He asked if I had her on aspirin or blood thinners, and I had not. I will call him tomorrow and suggest a transfusion and also ask him about the doxycycline
posted on June 16, 2006 12:24:48 AM new
Neil, It's not possible that Nina has NO platelets. As I said my dogs were down to 11 meaning 11,000. Normal is 2 or 3 hundred thousand or something like that.
She needed a transfusion & needed it fast.
I think you need a second opinion. I hate to say this, but most vets are just no good & it is very difficult to find a good one.
If your near a teaching hospital, go there right away.
Another thing to look for, does it say DVM or VDM after your doctors name. VDM means they graduated from the University of Pennsylvania & they are the only University in the world that can use these letters to distinguish them as U of P graduates which is the best vet teaching hospital in the world. Play the odds & look for a VMD, a Penn doctor or better still go to a university that has a teaching hospital.
I can't help but think you are seeing the wrong doctor & small clinics are uaually not able to handle something as critical as this.
posted on June 16, 2006 01:29:21 AM newTom it is not silly to get worked up over a dog.
If I never understand anything again I can honestly tell you one thing I will always understand & remember, your feelings for Ralphie.
They show in every post & everything you do & say. I could never think of one without the other.
I've known many people who dearly love their pets & many here show that love too, but I've never known anyone like you who has found such joy in a sweet little dog.
Jane
[ edited by mcjane on Jun 16, 2006 10:50 PM ]
posted on June 16, 2006 04:09:51 AM newTOM! This came in from the Yorkie Chat list last night!
"Posted on Sat, Jun. 10, 2006
Vaccine maker recalls rabies doses Veterinarians to notify pet owners about shots
A leading rabies vaccine manufacturer has voluntarily recalled about 330,000 doses sold nationwide after a vaccinated dog contracted the deadly disease.
"They don't know why ... the animal contracted rabies," said Kelly Goss, a spokeswoman for Fort Dodge Animal Health, based in Overland Park, Kan., and a division of health care giant Wyeth. "In the best interest of pet owners and animals, we made a decision to voluntarily recall that product."
The company mailed notices to veterinarians on May 25, and will reimburse them for revaccination, Goss said. Doctors are notifying pet owners to bring in animals for free shots.
Fort Dodge began selling the recalled batch in January 2005. Goss didn't know how many vets bought the problem lot. Fort Dodge tested batches of vaccine with serial numbers issued around that of the affected lot and found no problems, she said.
Animals at greatest risk are outdoor pets and those such as puppies and kittens, who received the recalled medication as their first and only vaccination, said Dr. Steve Marks of the N.C. State University College of Veterinary Medicine in Raleigh.
"If that initial vaccination did not work, then they're ... at risk for rabies," he said.
Notified pet owners should act quickly to have their animal revaccinated, Marks said, but he cautioned against panic.
"Just call your veterinarian if you're in doubt," he said.
What This Means to Pet Owners
Fort Dodge Animal Health recalled rabies vaccine Rabvac 3 TF, serial number 873113A. Your vet should notify you if your pet was vaccinated with the problem batch. You can also check the rabies certificate that you should have received, which lists the manufacturer and serial number.
posted on June 16, 2006 06:16:41 PM new
Jane - took your advice and went to another vet
she is now on steroids, doxcyline and carafate. Diagnosis is Autoimmune thrombocytopenia, idiopathis thrombocytoperia, tick disease. Her platelets are around 60,000. Will try this for a week and see how she makes out. Otherwise I have to take her to either Jax or Gainesville for more tests. Have to watch for bruising on skin or in mouth, blood in urine and stools. thanks everyone for your advice and caring. Tom - hope Ralphie is doing OK.
His appetite is always large (he ain'r FATBOY for nuttin)!
But, since we spend 24hrs/day (more or less) together, I can notice the little things that aren't right -- ya know what I mean? He just ain't himself...
There's an air of jovial jauntiness about Ralphie that's been missing for a few weeks now...tis difficult to put my finger on other than the description that he just ain't himself...he's "clingier?" He's "sadder?"
His DIGESTION is just a mess (no pun intended) -- some days it's fairly normal, but other days are distressing. His night-time sleep pattern has been shot to hell...
It's just a whole slew of amorphous "little things wrong" that add up to: I'm worried sick about him...
posted on June 16, 2006 09:43:42 PM new
Niel, you can also look inside her ears for bruising, easier to do then upset her by opening her mouth to frequently.
She needs a transfusion, does the doctor know of any donor dogs, ask him.
posted on June 16, 2006 10:08:00 PM new
Our dearly departed Minature schnauzer got Erlichiosis back when she was just over a year old from a tick bite I believe it took several months but she recovered and was tested for 2 years to any signs of it. I was lucky when she came down with it that the vet was very much up on the problem. We almost lost her before we got her to the vet and on IV treatments. It was a fast disease and I had to keep Injectible medication at home when she would have a severe reaction to almost anything until she got over the disease. Real scary. Hope your pup gets better or you can find out if it is this disease and not the other.
My Vet sent blood work to Texas A&M Vet school and got answer immediately through them. I think that is who did it and it was NOT expensive as they did it as case studies etc or something like that just had to pay Vet to draw and send it to them overnight. That was back in 1988through 1990
**************
I married my wife for her looks...but not the
ones she's been giving me lately!
posted on June 16, 2006 10:28:19 PM new
Tom...I'm sure you've already checked for and eliminated the obvious, which would be worms or some other parasite? Also, is there a possibility that Ralphie did something stupid, like eating a piece of chocolate, a toadstool, or an unknown "treat" left by a demented individual while he was on his daily walk? (It happens more often than you would think) Just a couple of thoughts, but very easy to overlook when you're upset.
If Murphy's law is correct, everything East of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic
posted on June 16, 2006 10:53:30 PM newTom
I have such mixed feelings about vaccines & the vaccine shot you usually have to worry about is the second one, the booster. That's most likely when a reaction will show up if there's going to be one. But it is usually anaphalatic shock & that certainly is not what your describing. Could e other reactions though, you never know.
Your breaking my heart & I feel your pain.
Never let any doctor ever again push you into anything that you do not want.
Trust very few doctors & question everything.
And if you ever run into this sort of problem again tell them you give your own shots.
The good news is that Ralphie is eating, just make sure he stays regular & is peeing the same as always. A doctor once suggested I put a little Metamucil in one of my cats food. I never did, but thought it was a good idea if needed.
It os OK for dogs too, dose is 1/4 tsp for 20 lbs 2 x a day.
posted on June 17, 2006 09:23:33 PM new
Tom, the first step is to find out what shots Ralphie had that day. It is normally on the receipt the vet gives you. I was helped incredibly by the dog group on Yahoo called The Possible Canine since my lab was diagnosed with cancer 1 1/2 years ago http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePossibleCanine. They got Janie through side affects from a huge surgery site, followed by a low immune system, followed by radiation after effects. She is happy, healthy, stronger than before she was diagnosed. You will get excellent suggestions from knowledgeable dog people. I think it would also be helpful if you would google these words: pitcairn thuja vaccinosis all in the same search.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
[ edited by irked on Jun 16, 2006 10:21 PM ]