posted on March 23, 2001 12:19:14 PM new
Ever wonder how many auctions BidBay really has? They claim to have over 900,000. I've found the truth. An actual number of listings (not items) and posted it for your enjoyment.
I knew the number would be low but I did not suspect it to be this low. You may be shocked to find out how small BidBay really is.
Here is a link to the truth:
http://www.freehomepages.com/therealstats/
posted on March 23, 2001 12:34:14 PM new
Oh my, gawd! I also knew the front page #'s were wrong, but.....that is interesting to say the least. I guess BidVille is # 2! Yippee, it now has over 1/2 million listings and growing.
Edited to add:
Ag2, you did the recipe count a while back. What is your take on these numbers? Truthfully.
[ edited by deichen on Mar 23, 2001 12:35 PM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 12:37:19 PM new
gottaknow88 >
Ever wonder how many auctions BidBay really has? They claim to have over 900,000. I've found the truth.
Yes, inquiring minds DO WANT TO KNOW. In fact, I was in the process of doing some rough caluclations when you posted your message. Needless so say that little project has ended. <grin>
posted on March 23, 2001 12:46:50 PM new
I wonder how auctions rank in terms of number of items SOLD (or $ sold), instead of items/listings AVAILABLE for sale?
Ebay is #1 (duh!), but who is #2, 3, etc?
Anyone have the magic/patience to try and scope this out?
Its also helpful in these kind of rankings to know how close the players are - it may turn out that #2 and #6, for example, are separated by only a relatively small amount...or maybe there is a clear #2.
[ edited by captainkirk on Mar 23, 2001 12:51 PM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 01:06:02 PM new
Dimview,
I would love to see your count too! If you weren't to far from finished. It would certainly help back the other and give the BidBayer's something to chew on! LOL
posted on March 23, 2001 01:17:34 PM new
gottaknow88~~~
Thanks for doing the leg work.
Checked out your stats and I believe the number is even lower than suggested. Some of the categories have 0 to 49 next to them in parentheses, yet, you attributed 50 listings to the category. And, don't forget about removing the recipes from the equation, since, supposedly it is not included in the front page count.
Again, thanks for doing all that work. Puts the site in true perspective.
Oh, and one other thing I forgot about. If the item is listed in more than one category, it is counted more than once. There really isn't a way to get a truly accurate count.
posted on March 23, 2001 01:21:52 PM new
gottaknow...
the problem I have with your numbers is you're comparing apples to oranges.
You are comparing Item #'s to Listings.
BidBay claims on it's front pages that there are over 1 million "items" in over 3,942 categories.
You have counted how many listings there are.
Some of those listings will be dutch. Some for 5 items...some for 1,000.
If each listing averaged 10 items that would put the "items" listed at well over a million like the front page claims.
Did you count the $1.00 and under category?
Did you count the BidBay Bucks category?
I am not defending their choice to use an "items" count vs a "listings" count, but I do understand why they have chosen to use this method. It's sort of an accentuate the positive method.
Some people think it's deceptive...I did when they included over 500 thousand recipes, but the simple fact is they state as plain as day that it is item numbers they are displaying.
Edited to add: They have since removed the recipe auctions from the item numbers count.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 23, 2001 01:40 PM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 01:29:57 PM new
"I wonder how auctions rank in terms of number of items SOLD (or $ sold), instead of items/listings AVAILABLE for sale?"
That is a number that would have some meaning. The number of listings on any given site is not a true indicator of their ranking.
Also the number of bids should be factored in. If you used this logic BidVille may not be anywhere near the top.
posted on March 23, 2001 01:45:53 PM new
auctiongallery2 >
the problem I have with your numbers is you're comparing apples to oranges.
Just how could you have a problem with it?
BidBay is reporting items (apples); all the other auction sites, to the best of my knowledge, are reporting listings (oranges). Its clear that if someone wants to make direction comparisons, there has to be some estimations of what BidBay has in terms of listings and gottaknow88 has done an excellent job at finding out.
You restated my case. As stated on my stats, that is exactly what I did. I converted "items" to "listings". If I used the reverse technology and converted eBays "listings" to "items", I'd bet they have 300 million, not 5 million items. ePier, maybe they have 2 million items. BidVille, maybe 5 million items.
So, I'm not comparing apples to oranges at all. I've leveled the playing field for the other sites and converted bidbay's method the the more honest method.
Accentuating the positive? Are you kidding? It is deceptive and always has been. Why are there no other auction sites (that I can find) using this method?
A. BidBay is smarter than the others.
B. BidBay is more deceptive than the others.
You choose. I've got my pick.
I counted all categories that are accessible from the homepage "all categories" link. I honestly don't know if the BBB's are in there. Enlighten me. (Are they really auctions anyway?)
Toollady - you are absolutely right. I am being very generous by giving BidBay 50's in categories with less than 50 and even zero! Factor that in and they are below 100,000.
Remove the recipes and who knows. If I did that, we'd have to remove sports cards from bidville. And domain names (30,000) and Books (70,000) from LowestBids (leaving them with 70,000 items not 170,000). That get's tricky.
Edited to Add:
AG2, I just reread your post as it confuses me so much. You obviously did not read the first two pages of my stats site because all you did was restate what I've said there. Go back and check it out a little closer if you get a chance.
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 23, 2001 01:58 PM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 01:59:45 PM new
Dimview the problem I have is gottaknow is attempting to make it look as though BidBay is lying about the 900,000 when in fact they now have over 1 million items listed.
He/she is attempting to prove this by counting "listings."
That's where the apples to oranges scenario comes into place here.
gottaknow states on page 2 of his/her site:
"BEFORE CLICKING BELOW, TAKE A GUESS!!
THEY CLAIM TO HAVE OVER 900,000.
HOW MANY DO YOU THINK?
THE TRUTH MAY SHOCK YOU!"
Then on page 3 states:
Auction Count Posted on Home Page: 902, 402
Number of Actual Listings: : 113,100"
It has now gone from Items to "Auction Count."
BidBay does not claim to have over 900,000 auctions running.
They claim to have over 1 million "items" listed.
Now do you see my point.
gottaknow has compared the auction listings he counted (over 100,000) and is comparing it to BidBay's front page "item" count (over 1 million). Apples...Oranges.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:05:58 PM new
gottaknow...I have read your site.
You state this:
If you assume that there is a maximum of 50 items on each page and the category in the example above has 5 pages, you get a maximum 250 auction listings
That has counted auction listings.
My point is this.
Yes there is a maximum of 50 auctions on each page....however each auction may contain more than one item.
Let's say that there are on average 5 items in each auction. That is possible because there are numerous dutch auctions on BidBay running right now with 1000 items.
Okay now you have 50 listings *5 items * 5 pages.
You now have 1,250 Items being sold in 250 auction listings under one category.
With all due respect, did you read page one of my stats? The first thing I stated is that they count "items" listed.
From the stats: "One member posts a dutch auction for 5000 individual stamps. BidBay's home page count increases by 5000 even though this is only one auction." I FULLY understand their methodology. I also FULLY disagree with it. I admit, BIDBAY DOES HAVE 900,000 "ITEMS" FOR SALE. Know I know that they have only 100,000 "auctions". Let's not fight over terminology.
Hey, weren't you the one that always use to bash BidBay? What happened?
posted on March 23, 2001 02:17:55 PM new
auctiongallery2,
Agreed that there's a "jump" from items to listings at the website mentioned, however, the bottomline, is that gottaknow88's work HAS leveled the playing field, putting ALL auction sites on a more equal footing.
What benefit does BidBay derive from tenaciously clinging to items while all other auction sites report listings?
Why should disproportionate "counts" allow one auction site to rank higher than other auction sites?
posted on March 23, 2001 02:28:01 PM new
The point is, the accepted practice through out the online auction community is to count listings and not items.
BidBay chooses to count items and if someone hits the site and doesn't pay full attention to the numbers they are rudely awakened when opening up a category they are interested in.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:32:35 PM new
dimview...I don't think items listed vs auctions listed should make one site better than another.
I agree with what others have said on this thread...I think a more important indicator would be dollars sold.
However if you look at the numbers of hits each sites get that would at least give you an idea of how many people just might look at your listing...thus increasing your chances of a sale.
And so far...BidBay has consistently been in the top 9 on top9.com since August of last year in the auctions category...gotta give them that much credit.
gottaknow...you are correct.
I am the one who was on here bashing BidBay day in and day out.
I went and visited BidBay.Com headquarters and came away with a better understanding of things.
The most important thing was that these were just human beings on the other end of the line...not mad power hungry evil people bent on taking over the world...LOL
I have since decided to take a positive approach at bringing about change.
It has worked wonders in my personal life...I am a much more happier person...LOL
I have also decided not to participate in anymore "tit for tat" conversations on chat boards either.
I understand what it is you want to do...however my suggestion is just keep it simple and straightforward like someone else pointed out to me.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:35:27 PM new
toollady that is an excellent point one that I agree with.
Changes have been asked for by numerous members...they had a group of members who visited the company about 2-3 weeks before I did...along with my suggestions.
I don't know if they plan on changing this in the future...but for now I see a lot of positive changes happening...I didn't expect them to be able to do it all in one night...heck even one month.
I hear you. Now, you wanna talk a little about "hits"? BidBay claims 1 million "hits" per day. Do you know how a webmaster defines "hits"? Is it the number of pages viewed? No. Is it the number of visitors? No. Is it the number of times links or pages are clicked on? No.
So here it is. A "hit" is defined as "the transfer of a piece of information from a website to a visitor." Now, what is a "piece of information". This is defined as 1. The page itself or 2. A single image on the page.
So, go to BidBay's homepage. I count 12 images. 12 images and the "page" itself makes 13. You get 13 "hits" for one person going to BidBay's homepage. Now, BidBay also has image hosting. Every time one of their images is displayed on a website and a visitor looks at it, guess what? That's a "hit". Even though it's not on BidBay's site.
Now, this is all assuming that they are actually being honest with the one million hit thing. I doubt it.
Top 9.com. BidBay is not listed this month. Lowest bids is. Something is definitely wrong there but that is a whole other story. I'll explain that another time.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:51:48 PM new
gottaknow...
I am very well aware of how sites count hits...and I believe you are incorrect with your definition. At my own personal...non business related web site I have a few companies I use to count hits or visitors.
It is the transfer of information and it has nothing to do with the amount of images you have on your front page.
And if you do go to top9.com you will see BidBay listed as number 6.
This site is independent of BidBay and is a web ranking site. You will see BidBay was doing over 360,000 unique visitors during that reporting period.
And lowestbids was last seen on the chart in the January reporting period.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:54:45 PM new
Sorry...I was wrong. I took a close look at Top9. BidBay is listed and LowestBids is not. My bad.
But, look closely. BidVille is on top of the "sites to watch" list. Funny thing. Click on the "Auctions..major products" heading instead of the "Auctions General" heading. Auxpal (the old bidville name) is listed there as number 5! It's obviously in the wrong category. So Auxpal is number 5 on one list and bidville is the top site to watch (essentially number 10) on the other list. Add their "visitors" together and who knows where that places them. I suppose the stats are from the month where axpal changed its name. Very interesting huh?
And...no I don't work for any auction site. I work for me. (and for fun)
Edited because I now see the reply from AG2 above: Nope. You are incorrect about hits. You are referring to a "hit counter" that any tom, dick or harry can place on his website. A hit counter is not an accurate measure of "hits". It is exactly what you say. The number of times the page is viewed. However, ask any intelligent webmaster and he'll tell you what a hit is defined as. Exactly what I said above.
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 23, 2001 02:57 PM ]
HIT
As used in reference to the World Wide Web, “hit” means a single request from a web browser for a single item from a web server; thus in order for a web browser to display a page that contains 3 graphics, 4 “hits” would occur at the server: 1 for the HTML page, and one for each of the 3 graphics.
“hits” are often used as a very rough measure of load on a server, e.g. “Our server has been getting 300,000 hits per month.” Because each “hit” can represent anything from a request for a tiny document (or even a request for a missing document) all the way to a request that requires some significant extra processing (such as a complex search request), the actual load on a machine from 1 hit is almost impossible to define.
posted on March 23, 2001 03:07:37 PM new
I am sorry...my mistake you are correct. I was comparing apples to oranges in that scenario...lol I was thinking in terms of hit counters which images uploaded to eBay hosted on BidBay would basically be...as opposed to people entering the front page at BidBay.
I honestly don't know how they define the term "hits."
I will call them and ask them...because you bring up a good point.
Now, we're on the same page!! So far we are all agreed! BidBay had 900,000 items yesterday which calculates to approximately 100,000 unique auctions. Their "hit" count is deceptive because VERY few people understand what a "hit" really is. Top9 data is flawed (and I can show you how it is even worse than that if you'd like).
Now, wanna talk a little about the "4 Million Members"?
Or, about the "7 Million Auctions since 1/2000"? How are they defining auctions here? Is it "items" or is it "listings". They are saying "auctions", not "items". Hmmm.
(If you haven't figured it out, I know a little about computers. You think I counted those BidBay listings by hand?? I'd have to be crazy!)
