posted on March 5, 2001 12:34:47 PM
chococake: I live in Las Cruces (for those who don't know that is in New Mexico about 30 minutes from El Paso, TX). I heard about the riot this weekend. I hadn't heard anything about *why* it started. From the news that I heard it seemed to me that it was just another gang fight.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:23:29 PM
Snowydays - She said Fox News lost their connection.
I'm no fan of Fox News, they are more tabloid than news, so maybe they will lose all their connections if we're lucky and some reputable commentators will have a chance to be heard.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:27:06 PM
Hi, everybody. I know bobbysoxer won't see this; I didn't realize she had been ignoring others' postings on AW.
Just want you all to know that I am not, in turn, ignoring or deactivating HER postings. Not my style, even if I disagree.
I do realize I was pretty hostile about the love of guns that seems to be so prevalent in this country. I have always said that you get what you give; I gave hostility, and bobbysoxer gave it back.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:31:40 PM
I haven't figured out yet how bobbysoxer is able to put so many people on "ignore" and yet still respond to their posts. That's quite an art.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:37:52 PM
roadsmith...there was an interesting story on the AP Wire about a boy that killed his father with a baseball bat over some loud music he was listening to. Maybe we should ban baseball bats as well?
There is a ton of local coverage on this and alot of news is coming out, as will more today. The 15 year-old shooter was apparently new to the school district and was picked on very badly. None of his friends took him seriously. Such a shame!
Of course this was an act of cowardice. Going armed into a school where no one else has a similar weapon is not very brave at all. Mentally ill or not, it's like picking off sitting ducks. Sorta like a big guy beating up little ol' ladies!
Take that same armed kid going into South East San Diego on a Saturday night...now that's a fair fight!
This is a sad thread. To bicker among yourselves, IMO, diminishes the enormity of the event. Please discuss the topic, not your fellow posters.
snowydays,
Your post: "bobbysoxer, I find you real annoying."
is an insult, and I'm issuing you an informal warning.
bobbysoxer
To announce publicly that you have someone on ignore is a bit on the rude side, in itself. Please keep the principles of basic etiquette in mind as you post.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:44:01 PM
Roadsmith - I didn't see your post as hostile as much as I saw someone expressing anger, frustration, helplessness, sadness and loss at young people and adults being killed maliciously.
I saw someone who was grasping at any answer that could explain, and hopefully stop, all this insanity and posted the first thing that came into his/her mind - i.e. "if the kid didn't have a gun, he couldn't have killed those people".
Simplistic maybe, but when we are faced with tragedies, we usually react with emotion rather than logic.
That's just being human, not hostile (at least in my humble opinion).
posted on March 5, 2001 03:08:34 PM
I do not approve of what the boy did but I have a very good understanding of how he got there.
I was smacked around every day by a member of the football team for most of one year and when I complained about it to my counceler I was told that he did not want to hear about any problems and I was as much a problem as the other kid if I came to him. I told him I would take care of it myself and he was very threatening. I waited and when I got my chance I smacked the other kid acrosss the back of the head and knocked him sown a flight of stairs. I was just never a boxer. He was off school three days and nobody would admit seeing what happened. If he had come back and started up beating me again I would never have shot him although I have had my own pistol since I was 12 but I can imaigine I might have run him over with my car or something.
posted on March 5, 2001 03:34:22 PM
Look what just came from my cousin Karl in San Diego! --Adele
Hi Adele,
That High School shooting at Santana came close to home. The school is less
than two miles from our home. My son Tim was teaching there when the shooting
took place. For almost two hours I was beside myself, fearing the worse. Then
Tim called and said he was not harmed. All those poor people. Two dead and 13
wounded! My stomach is still upset.
Karl
You committed the moderatable crime of a direct statement... In future, when someone is driving you up the wall, and you can't stand it another minute...you need to make the point indirectly. Study the posts of masters of the art... I'm sure you know the ID of the famed Grand Master of insult sans moderation...
If you should be direct in such a blatant fashion again, you will receive a formal warning. One more time after that...the dread suspension.
Great prudence is called for, when irritated beyond measure...
posted on March 5, 2001 08:59:26 PM
As long as God is not allowed in public schools, be prepared to see more of these horrible tragedies among our children.
posted on March 5, 2001 09:19:47 PMFatality fumble: Football kills as many students as school shootings
A new study from the National School Safety Center (NSSC) reported that there were 15 "school-associated deaths" caused by violent crime -- including guns -- during the 1999-2000 school year.
That number is unchanged from the 1998-1999 school year, when 15 students were killed by guns, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
By comparison, 15 high school football players died during regular season and playoff games in 1999, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.
posted on March 6, 2001 10:30:56 AM
Unfortunately, what I find disturbing is the WHY this happens. Seems its always a student who is picked on because he/she is fat, skinny, nerdish, ugly, dorky, a loner, you-name-it. If it doesnt confirm to what is the "norm" according to "the masses", then the picking begins. This way of teaching tolerance of others begins in kindergarten, then escalates to high school. By then, the cliques have formed and the lessons learned of who will be the pick-ee versus the pick-er. Where is this learned? By watching the parent(s) in their own interactions with other people. It moves on up to the adult stage where it manifests in day to day life. Instead of focusing on guns, perhaps the answer is to focus on what is going on in the home, as well as what is going on in the schools between the bully/victim and WHY it is allowed, condoned, accepted.
posted on March 6, 2001 11:40:24 AMAs long as God is not allowed in public schools, be prepared to see more of these horrible tragedies among our children.
What an odd statement. What has this tragedy to do with God?
WILLIAMSPORT, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Another shooting at a U.S. high school left at least one person injured Wednesday, authorities in Pennsylvania said.
The shooting occurred at Bishop Neumann High School, a Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 231 students in grades seven through 12 in Williamsport, about 180 miles northwest of Philadelphia.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:21:06 PM
Hello I am from San Diego, CA you can go to www.insidesandiego.com and go to the news. the kid is being tried as an adult but because of his age won't get the death sentence.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:43:49 PM
This nation is being cursed because many of us have turned away from God--either intentionally or by lack of knowledge. There are lots of God-hating people trying to throw Him out of the country completely. They've almost completely succeeded in getting God out of school.
As far as the girls shooting each other up at a "Catholic school"...
Catholic schools are struggling now with many of the same problems that the public schools are having. In order to survive financially, they need to take students who are unbelievers--and there are many parents who send there kids to the Catholic school to get them away from the misery of the public schools. The teachers of the Catholic schools are now complaining they have to spend more and more time controlling unruly students--time that should be spent teaching.
Also, God does not care what denomination you are--religion is a man-made cultural thing. There are plenty people who 'go to church' of some sort who aren't true believers. God only cares that we believe in Him, serve Him, and look to Him for salvation. He wants us to be part of His church of believers.
People now, especially the kids who are now the upperclassmen of high school, are suffering tremendously. We now live in a culture of death--we no longer value life. Satan is doing a happy dance for our country right now.
Things are only going to get worse. We can't blame God. We only have ourselves to blame for turning away from Him. What these kids are going through now, shooting each other up and all, is a consequence of our godless ways. Because of our selfishness and pride, our children are suffering. In these times it's best each of us make amends with Him and be sure we have our priorities straight with the Lord.
It would take a miracle to turn this nation back to God, where we first started out. I'm going to continue to speak up when I can and when appropriate--not because it's my right to, but because stating the truth will help at least one person who reads these posts.
If you think I'm a total maniac, I know you are entitled to your opinion. I respect you and hope you will respect me in return--let's see some of that tolerance everyone is always talking about.
posted on March 8, 2001 04:37:57 AM
mzalez, can you cite any studies or a source for the statement you made that Catholic schools now have more "unbelievers" enrolled than previous years, and that this higher percentage of students who don't believe in God actually cause more unruly behavior in those schools? Also, what correlation does this situation have to the recent school shootings in a Catholic school? Do you know the religious beliefs of the 2 girls involved and the parents of both girls? Please provide some backup for your statement.
Also, I believe God is where people bring him in their hearts, in their minds, and in their behavior. God is with me everyday wherever I go, whether that might be a public school, work, the Internet, the supermarket, a jail, a court, my home, anyone's home, driving, oh ANYWHERE I might ever go. I would hope this would be true for each believer in God.
BTW mzalez, I am a non-denominational born again Christian who was raised Catholic, and attended a Catholic high school. Your post challenged me to break my own personal rule against discussing religion on an auction chat site. The reason I broke my own rule is that I got a sense of mean-spirited nontolerance towards AW posters from your own post, specifically when you said "let's see some of that tolerance everyone is always talking about."
Personally I can't sit by while AW posters as a group are intimated (however slightly) to be non-tolerant of Christians, since I am in fact Christian and have not sensed intolerance here ever. Actually this is the one place on the Internet that I have participated in that I have seen some great discussions about religion, faith, and belief in God occur to a depth and with sharing I never thought possible on a public forum. Pretty amazing and positive I thought.
Also I truly, truly believe God is with the students that currently attend public school if they choose to bring God there inside their own hearts/minds/souls. To say that God is not there, would demean those students who are doing just that.
Mzalez, it matters what we do with our faith and how we show it to others in our behaviour and words, not just the fact that we have faith.
Also I would like to point out to AW users, I hope I've been able to show not all Christians are strident and non-tolerant or critical of non-Christians. Instead, I hope that my words and my behavior can show to the world at large the serenity and peace I've personally gained from knowing God. If at least one person here can see that in my words then I too feel the communication has been beneficial.
Mzalez, I am going to pray for all the students and families affected by, hurt by, or even partipating in the shootings yesterday at those schools. They each need a touch of God's serenity and peace right now. I hope you will join me.
posted on March 8, 2001 07:57:21 AM
Hi enchanted, thanks for your reply to my post.
I can't cite a source for the Catholic school problem, but I will try to find one for you. I'm going by what my Catholic school teacher friends tell me, and what I've heard from other people involved with private schools.
The problem has been growing for the past few years. I'm in New Orleans, which has some miserable public schools--among the worst I've ever seen. (to be fair, there are a few good examples, but way too few) There is a large Catholic population in this city, and many parochial schools as a result. Many parents, if they can afford it, send their kids to private schools whether they are believers or not.
The religious background of the girls involved with the PA shooting I don't know, either. Do you agree, though, that the shooting was an act of evil?
I'm not sure I understand your question about the correlation of the Catholic school problem to the shootings, but I'll take a stab at it--tell me if I missed. A child with a strong faith, who lives in a godly way and trusts God is not going to kill other kids when he feels weak or angry.
Yes, it's true that for believers God goes everywhere with us in our hearts, minds, and behavior--just as you state.
Our spiritual backgrounds are almost the same, I see. The only difference is that I attended a public high school, but I did work in a Catholic high school for several years.
My statement asking for "some of that tolerance everyone is talking about" is a challenge to the posters, and was not meant as anything hostile. Sorry to hear it came across that way to you.
Yes, God is with many students that attend public schools--those that have accepted Him. On the other hand, there are many public schools where the administration won't accept that in their students. The goal is to get God out of public schools, and it is demeaning to faithful students.
You hit the nail right on the head when you say "it matters what we do with our faith and how we show it to others in our behaviour and words, not just the fact that we have faith."
Yes, I will join you in prayer for the shooting victims and perpetrators, and all those involved in these incidents. Thank you for the invitation. Let's invite others to pray with us--these kids especially need it. I am also thankful for the opportunity born from these incidents that illustrates how far we've strayed from what's good. Our nation is on a path of destruction and we are now suffering the consequences.
posted on March 8, 2001 08:07:57 AMA child with a strong faith, who lives in a godly way and trusts God is not going to kill other kids when he feels weak or angry.
Guess that excludes those who are mentally ill. Who needs the mental health profession? These "sick" people just need to go to church and they will be miraculously cured, eh?
Our nation is on a path of destruction and we are now suffering the consequences.
The world ends tomorrow. Repent!
if we're lucky and some reputable commentators will have a chance to be heard.
In future, when someone is driving you up the wall, and you can't stand it another minute...you need to make the point indirectly. Study the posts of masters of the art...
I wish but to learn, oh Great One...