posted on March 24, 2001 10:51:22 AM new
AG2:
Although, you said you were stepping away, I am sure you will be lurking. BidBay does not have a million items to sell.
I could easily go on BidBay, right now and list a Dutch auction for say Bicycles. I could say quantity of 5000, and a starting price of $100.00. Well, I probably do not have 5000 bicycles and who would know the difference? I would never sell that many. Meanwhile, it sure helped the #'s. Also, although they supposedly do not count recipes, the same idea could apply to other items printed off the computer or sent as email attatchments. I could post a huge quantity of something for sale, and print them one by one. BidBay loves those types of people. They do not have that many items.
posted on March 24, 2001 10:53:37 AM new
Im not impressed with AG2 at all, Ive been telling bidbay about those numbers for a long time..I just wonder how much it cost for a consult it sure does change the way people say things around here...hahaha
posted on March 24, 2001 11:23:18 AM new
auctiongallery2 >
I would also like to ask everyone what is so wrong about "accentuating the positive?"
It is not deceptive. BidBay has over 1 million items for sale.
That does not mean that every category is filled to the brim, but there are items for sale on the site and the site continues to grow in spite of all of it's opposition.
Let me explain it to you this way.
A buyer collects widgets.
They visit Auction Site A and find the widget category with (1,733) after the category title, click on the link, and find 1,733 listings to browse through.
Then they visit Auction Site B and find the widget categeory with (3,577), click on the link, and find 3,577 listings to browse through.
They then make their way to BidBay and find the widget category with (7,897), click on the link, and find just 37 listings to browse through.
So while you're correct that BidBay is not being deceptive, guess which auction sites are likely to get follow-up visits from that buyer, and which one isn't?
posted on March 24, 2001 03:06:26 PM new
I must be missing something here? i guess it all depends on whats most important to you ?........ it appears there are many people in this thread more intrested in the technical side of online auctions.the numbers and such.......while they may have some importance ROME was not built in a day............but lots of folks it seems have lots of time talking down a site instead of trying to build a site by listing......thats a waste of valuable time too me.......bidders only stay at a site they find things at.....this is true but each person has to contribute in order to attract bidders.......its a catch 22 thing.......if anyone can only talk bad about any sites and are not trying to help the sites by listing then those peoples words dont mean anything because they are not even trying to contribute anything worthwhile reading THANKS FOR THE FREE ADVERTISEING !
I LOVE BIDBAY!!!!!!!!
(eBay has 5 million items/auctions/listings. They use it interchangeably like every other auction site...except BidBay.)
Anyway, I'm going to miss you! But...I haven't been trying to impress you. Just teach everyone a little about websites.
And now, for my grand finale you wont respond!? LOL. Please do! This is the most interesting of all and almost irrefutable!!
Please refer to the following URL as a reference to the following information. Open it in a new browser window so you can read my comments and view the data simultaneously. I've highlighted the major sites in yellow:
http://www.freehomepages.com/therealstats/pcdata.htm
For a 2 Week Period in February: BidBay:
Page Views: 2,194,000
Unique Visitors: 193,000
Page Views per Visitor: 11.4
BidBay:
2,194,000 PAGE VIEWS (aka "hits" according to their "script" ) or 4.4 Million per month. Yet, they claim to you that they get 1 Million page views per day... or 30 Million per month. According to PCDataOnline (who you obviously trust), they get 4.4 Million per month, not 30 Million. You cannot dispute this unless you don't trust my data source. Each visitor looks at an average of 11 pages when they come to the site.
Bidville:
18 Million PAGE VIEWS or 36 Million per month. Each visitor looks at an average of 64 pages when they come to the site. This site has a good inventory and keeps the buyers looking! Too bad they don't bid. LOL.
LowestBids:
6,279,000 PAGE VIEWS or 12.5 Million per month. 2.9 Million Visitor or 6 million per month...shocking! But, each visitor looks at an average of only 2 pages when they visit. The home page, one auction...and bye, bye. Classic example of a site with no inventory that has somehow attracted buyers...but can't keep them.
Please let me know what you think about this stuff!! This is an intelligent post and deserves to be criticized!
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 24, 2001 03:30 PM ]
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 24, 2001 03:46 PM ]
posted on March 24, 2001 05:22:03 PM new
OK...so their page views are going up and that is something that is positive for them. This is something that they should accentuate. How about a statement like "Page views increased 20% this month." That is worthwhile information.
For the record, I do not believe that PCDataOnline is very accurate. It is probably only within 25% of being correct due to the methods they use (another lecture on another day). But, that still leads me to believe that BidBay is not getting 30 Million page views per month. Not when PCData says 4 Million. The truth is that BidBay is either flat out lying...or they are counting "hits" as I explained earlier. Using the correct method, they probably do get 1 Million hits per day.
Until tomorrow....
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 24, 2001 05:23 PM ]
posted on March 24, 2001 06:20:38 PM new
Deichen...gottaknows's first post was easily disputed and he/she has since changed his/her web page to reflect a more accurate picture of unique auctions.
Also gottaknow states that even they don't believe pcdataonline is accurate and I know why they believe this but I will leave it up to you to figure out for yourself as I believe people should investigate things for themselves and quit waiting for others to lead them.
Even then, gottaknow can't prove that BidBay is not getting the hits they claim as pcdata numbers are based on a "nielsen rating" type system. If gottaknow is the knowledgable computer savvy person they claim to be then why don't they call the techs at BidBay and ask them personally how they verify the amount of hits they claim?
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 24, 2001 06:27 PM ]
posted on March 24, 2001 06:39:15 PM new
Actually when you make claims on a public message board that a company is lying you just might have to prove it.
Not to me or you...but you might have to prove it elsewhere like in a court of law.
And just because you post anonymously does not mean you are actualy anonymous as courts may require a company like AW to reveal your information.
http://www.tcom.co.uk/hpnet/libel_net.htm
When I was posting information I did my best to document each and everything just in case I needed to prove it.
I have since come out and said that I was not 100% wrong...but I was also not 100% right.
I find it sad that anyone is a follower. That makes people susceptible to the likes of real cult leaders.
posted on March 24, 2001 08:20:07 PM new
I don't think I've have ever stated that a company is lying. (I may have and if I did I apologize and publicly retract the statement.)
AG2 - I am being completely honest here....I would not call BB and ask because I would not believe what they told me. Just like I don't believe what they told you. That's the truth. This is not an organization that has ever been known for its integrity (although they may be getting better as you've said).
You apparently perceive PCData's data the same way I do. I'll explain it briefly to the others that might not. PCData has ~100,000 internet volunteers. These volunteers use the internet the way anyone else does except PCData tracks every page they view ("log file". PCData then analyzes the users' movement on the net. They assume that this is a representative group of the entire internet population. Then they extrapolate the data as if they were actually tracking every single person on the internet. They basically multiply the page views of the 100,000 users by a factor of about 500-1000.
If the data is flawed, it is usually underestimated. That's right. If they say a site gets 100,000 views. It probably got a little more than that.
But, there is a special circumstance where the stats can be very overestimated. Let's say AuctionX convinces 1000 members to be PCData volunteers. These 1000 members are now part of the 100,000 tracked or 1% of them. These members frequently visit AuctionX. PCData assumes that 1% of the entire internet population frequently visits AuctionX. The number of visitors and page views posted will now be extremely and falsely high. The group is [i]not[/] an accurate representation. It is statistically "skewed".
Hence, with enough knowledge on how the internet works, one can falsify just about anything to unsuspecting visitors....including their identity.
Edited to Add:
So, my guess (and I could be wrong) is that BidBay gets a little more traffic than PCData says but NO WAY do they get 1 Million page views per day. And, LowestBids may fall into the second scenario. Somehow, all 76 people that use the site are signed up with PCData - skewing it wildly in their favor. Again, just a guess.
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 24, 2001 09:33 PM ]
posted on March 25, 2001 12:28:02 AM new
gottaknow88
According to your stats, bidville wins hands down. Each visitor looks at an average of 64 pages which means they are actually spending some time there.
When looking at these stats you need to consider that a lot of these page views are sellers (not bidders) listing and checking on their auctions, people browsing and posting on message boards, etc. I would venture a guess that only a small percentage of those page views are actually generated by buyers looking for items to purchase.
11.4 and 2.2 page veiws per visitor on the other sites is PATHETIC at best. This means that even the sellers don't spend much time there. Ouch!
I would guess in terms of $$ sold (which is what counts). Yahoo is still a solid #2 and will be for some time.
The number of listings on a site is really meaningless for the seller. For the buyer on the other hand it means more items to choose from and thus a better chance to find what you are looking for.
posted on March 25, 2001 04:04:30 AM new
Good morning AW
"Ever wonder how many auctions BidBay really has?"
No.
"They claim to have over 900,000."
900,000 what? I don't find that BidBay has claimed that they have over 900,000 auctions. What I do find today is:
1,050,377 items in 3,943 categories.
That's items, not auctions, sweetie.
"I've found the truth. An actual number of listings (not items) and posted it for your enjoyment."
I did check your website, the truth is, you've done alot of advertising for me, and I personally thank you. I love the links!
"I knew the number would be low but I did not suspect it to be this low."
I suspect that no matter what BidBay tries, everyone will not join. Those who do will find it not to be "low" in any way, but, instead, "high" in standards, decency, and an all around good time. This is as opposed to constant dissatisfaction expressed by some. Personally, again, I suspect that it's time to invite everyone to come fill up the categories, find some Excellent bargains, and enjoy a place supporting online auctions in a manner that is fair and honest, even if sometimes "speling is bad and it isnt' perrfect." It actually makes it more real, because BidBay, like 100% of everything human, is not perfect.
"You may be shocked to find out how small BidBay really is."
No. It is growing. A person I love was the 13th registered user at AuctionWeb (remember that?). BidBay can rub you the wrong way one day, then come back to delight you. People come, go, return, it is freedom at its finest. Like it or not, that is what I see. And, I've been there awhile. Having very successful transactions, I might add. If no one invited you today, I am doing so.
"Here is a link to the truth:
http://www.freehomepages.com/therealstats/ "
You did alot of work on this ~ great job!! The real stats don't mention the real story --> many folks are having very successful times at BidBay, both in the transactions that are taking place, and in the community which welcomes Everybody. The front page also documents: "$9,739,355 in bids made." Is that the real truth? Sounds like we're approaching a rather big number at BidBay. Thanks again for the free advertisement.
My guess is that you may not now do this, but in time, I know YOU (aka hard working person who did the website linked above and reading this), and everyone, will be welcome, and really, really find what is true: it's a good site:
Come fill up the categories if you are a seller, and/or find superb auctions at BidBay if you are a buyer. THE TRUTH is: it is a very nice place to do business.
You can go ahead and argue my entire post. Have a great time. Pick apart my words, quote me, like I did you. That's fine, because the truth to me, and quite a few many of us registered users at BidBay, is that the constant belittling of the site only increases interest, with people trying to figure out: why do people go to such great lengths to bash something good? You see, they do find it to be a good, decent, and fair place.
This was fun. Please update your website to show current auctions as often as possible. Come help us increase our auctions and sales. All are welcome (and no, I'm not staff, I'm not a stockholder, I'm a regular person out here just enjoying myself).
posted on March 25, 2001 06:11:01 AM new
Good morning Geraldine,
I won't pick apart your post because I respect it. You state the truth...as I have. Successful sellers don't care about the nit-picky statistics.
My only point in providing all the statistical information is that the company does not seem to value its own integrity. If you found out with complete certainty that Company X had been falsifying information to its customers, would you continue to support the company? Let's say it was a pharmaceutical company. Would you buy their products knowing their integrity was in question? Maybe you would, I don't know.
Here's some more boring technical stuff - If BB wanted to post the number of "auctions" instead of "items", one line of code would need to be altered on their home page. Here it is:
Current Database Command:
SELECT sum(number_of_items) from database
Database Command Every Other Site Uses:
SELECT count(number of items) from database
It would require changing only one word! However, this would lead to embarassment which is why it will never happen.
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Mar 25, 2001 06:12 AM ]
How do you expect anyone to take bidpay seriously when someone could list one dutch auction with say 10,000 stilleto knives and the total would go up 10,000. On bidbay it would be a miracle if they sould even 100 of those knives let alone one or two.
On eBay and all other auction sites when you see a category listing 1,000 auction you have 1,000 aauctions to browse. When you see 1,000 item listed on bidbay you may have 3 or 4 auctions to browse. Which one do you think buyers would find more real and which one sleazy.
posted on March 25, 2001 08:44:57 AM new
Your post was about the last kind of response I expected. Historically, I haven't been treated respectfully here, so I would like to thank you. My wit is... well, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. It's always easiest for me to post when I take it word by word.
Good morning Geraldine,
It's Geraldene, everyone makes that mistake
I won't pick apart your post because I respect it. You state the truth...as I have. Successful sellers don't care about the nit-picky statistics.
Again, thank you, and I agree.
My only point in providing all the statistical information is that the company does not seem to value its own integrity.
Here, we do move away from agreement. The first quality of leadership is integrity. I believe the CEO at BidBay has a lock on integrity. He takes command when critical choices need to be made.
If you found out with complete certainty that Company X had been falsifying information to its customers, would you continue to support the company? Let's say it was a pharmaceutical company. Would you buy their products knowing their integrity was in question? Maybe you would, I don't know.
It's a good analogy you raise.
Looking back at a famous pharmaceutical situation, the CEO at Tylenol took some perfect steps when there had been tampering with that product. In one of the most admired acts of company integrity, Tylenol went on a publicity rampage, recalling every bottle of their product. It was as though they shouted from the rooftops to people, warning them of the potential danger and correcting the problem with special caps on their medication.
In our real life case, there is nothing so dramatic as this true example, but the integrity issue is true in both cases. It is my experience that BidBay has not lied to me, ever. It is one of the most upfront companies I have worked with, in both my real and virtual life. I've not personally met the people running BidBay. And, in every dealing I've had with them, and there have been many, I have not been presented with ANY false information. The issue of auctions versus items is one BidBay has publicized openly. With all due respect, I think you might have missed it.
Here's some more boring technical stuff - If BB wanted to post the number of "auctions" instead of "items", one line of code would need to be altered on their home page. Here it is:
<b>Current Database Command:</b>
SELECT sum(number_of_items) from database
<b>Database Command Every Other Site Uses:</b>
SELECT count(number of items) from database
It would require changing only one word! However, this would lead to embarassment which is why it will never happen.
BidBay has nothing to be embarrassed about. They have taken the business, day by day, back to the users, continually trying to improve it. They have invited folks to visit their headquarters. From what I read they are active in their real life community.
If Company X chooses to market their goods, and you don't like the way they market, you certainly have the right to say so. But, the ingredients are there, gottaknow88, they are auctions running with sellers hoping for bids and bidders hoping for bargains. If I run a Dutch auction for 10 items, and one sells, I still have 9 items. Whether you count the one auction, or the 9 items I have, to me they are the same thing. You may feel marketing is incorrect at BidBay. And that's okay. But two things:
Marketing is not the same as ingredients, the auctions are terrific, and Most (of course, not all) of the users are having good experiences.
And,
No one falsified anything. It has been well known that items were in the count, and I again invite you to come to BidBay, at your convenience, to find out we are truly just human beings, who prefer to use an alternative site. No cults, no insider/outsider atmosphere, just (and there's no better way to phrase it that I can come up with): Wholesomeness. Individuality. Hard work. Good transactions. Lots more, thanks for taking the time to respond.
Taking this opportunity as my last post to say to AW users:
Here, at AW, the services are very good. But, to my knowledge, AW does not run an auction site. If you are looking for a place to list auctions, or bid, please take a look at BidBay. No one would be happier than me to see you there (well, maybe the CEO, he really enjoys it when someone comes and posts they are a newbie, too )
posted on March 25, 2001 09:02:43 AM newLOL
On bidbay click on listings, notice household says 290,000+ items, click on household. Notice pets has 27,000 items and click on pets. Notice for 27,000 items there are only 3 pages of auctions and most of those are Recipes for pet treats with 300 per auction.
posted on March 25, 2001 10:03:11 AM new
Tylenol's product tampering was not their fault. They did not choose it. BB chooses to post "items" which makes this a completely different scenario.
The bottom line is that they choose to inflate the numbers by counting "items" instead of "auctions". The average visitor does not realize this. The average visitor misinterprets the number. The average visitor thinks the number can be compared to eBay, Yahoo, Bidville, 321gone, etc. The average visitor is not as smart as us. That is what makes it deceptive.
I would like to invite everyone to my new flea market. It is located in Long Island. This weekend there will be 1 MILLION items for sale there. Hurry or you might miss out on a great find!!
Drive to Long Island.....go to my flea market.....open the door.....browse all 1 Million pet rocks.....leave very unhappy and feeling as if you were duped.
posted on March 25, 2001 11:40:39 AM new
Gottaknow88
It would be more like one table with one pet rock and sign saying 999,999 more availible. And no other shoppers or buyers there.
posted on March 25, 2001 11:52:15 AM new
You make it difficult to step away.
Tylenol's product tampering was not their fault. They did not choose it. BB chooses to post "items" which makes this a completely different scenario.
The issue had to do with integrity, handling of situations.
The bottom line is that they choose to inflate the numbers by counting "items" instead of "auctions".
This is your bottom line, not mine.
The average visitor does not realize this.
How do you know this? I was an average visitor once. I realized plenty about the site as I took my lookaround, and I chose to stay.
The average visitor misinterprets the number.
You don't give much credit to the average visitor.
The average visitor thinks the number can be compared to eBay, Yahoo, Bidville, 321gone, etc.
The average visitor is looking to bid, or to sell. Many are looking for bargains, and an alternative. I could venture only a guess, to think that the average visitor might not be mathematically inclined, but only looking to buy/sell/ aka find a bargain/find a person looking for what you've got and want to sell.
The average visitor is not as smart as us.
Baloney. The average visitor is much smarter than you think.
That is what makes it deceptive.
What deception there is, you have created. It is in your mind.
I would like to invite everyone to my new flea market. It is located in Long Island. This weekend there will be 1 MILLION items for sale there. Hurry or you might miss out on a great find!! Drive to Long Island.....go to my flea market.....open the door.....browse all 1 Million pet rocks.....leave very unhappy and feeling as if you were duped.
Thanks, and if I come over, and find 1/10 of what you've advertised (that equals 100,000 items on my calculator ) and one or two of them are exactly what I've been looking for, I'll leave happy as a clam.
Chances are, I won't persuade you to give BidBay a try, or just maybe I might. Once again, you are welcome. All of you ladies and gents, post a chat to say eboom invited you to come and enjoy yourselves.
posted on March 25, 2001 05:32:02 PM new
Oh no, I give the average visitor all the credit in the world. Why do think Bidbay and Lowestbids have such dismal (for an auction site) page views per visitor? Not much to look at despite such high auction numbers.
Maybe they also looked at the highly inflated feedback numbers. 1300 postive from 67 unique users? Doesn't look to good to the average visitors.
posted on March 25, 2001 06:42:27 PM new
In trying to follow these three pages of DATA and other STATS, my question is: Do you realize how much time you have wasted in trying to provide stats that basically few people care about?
Bottom Line: If you LOVE bidbay and sell enough there to make you happy........STAY!
If you don't..........GO!!!
Life is, after all, too short to buy green bananas!!!
it sure does change the way people say things around here...hahaha