posted on October 17, 2000 01:02:56 PM
Well yankeejoe, the Yahoo tipster plan doesn't sound like such a "great" idea to me.
What happens when the tipsters organize and decide to "target" someone? Pretty easy to get that 3 tip minimum then huh?
Couple that with poor follow through and inadequate investigation from Yahoo and you've got what, the tipsters calling the shots? Right? er....excuse me, I mean the "Neighborhood Watch" calling the shots. Yes, Neighborhood Watch sounds so much more....."user friendly" doesn't it?
Yahoo is really to blame here. Yahoo can't seriously expect to set up a system of non-payed informants that will somehow run itself. An army of volunteer security guards requires MORE supervision from Yahoo, not less supervision. Just my opinion of course.
posted on October 17, 2000 01:16:31 PM
From what I've read on the boards, if an auction is getting targeted, then in most cases it's for a good reason. Not all, but most cases. Still sounds like a good idea to me. Granted, more oversight would be desirable.
posted on October 17, 2000 01:23:19 PM
and I suppose if someone deadbeats your auction, most probably its for a good reason. The new yahoo excuse for not doing their job. How can you say "most" unless you know exactly how many auctions were targeted and for what reason? http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
posted on October 17, 2000 01:25:40 PM
I can say "most" because I've prefaced it with "From what I've read on the boards". Unlike launching spam, I have no control over the other person deadbeating my auctions.
posted on October 17, 2000 01:41:44 PM
I for one am not going to limit my venues just because of a vigilante group. How would you propose you rid the world of these groups?
posted on October 17, 2000 01:45:37 PM
Frankly, that just seems silly to me. It doesnt bother you that Yahoo has absolutely no customer service. It doesnt bother you that every misfit in the world is playing on yahoo with fake ids, deadbeating like crazy, posting bad feedback for fun. It doesnt bother you that Yahoo is known for the highest rate of fraud from any auction site. Just about every scandal has its roots in yahoo (the paypal hard disk scheme that caused PP to change their TOS, the Romanian rip-off, the famous Kurchar, to name a few). But the posse bothers you? In the scheme of things, even if you consider them a problem, they are the smallest problem yahoo has. http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
Guess you can tell what I had for breakfast this morning, huh ). I meant to say 'serial", but while eating Wheaties, you tend to mess up. Mmmmm, mmmmm, good!
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RM
"I sincerely hope you don't wind up on the receiving end of some other tipster with an axe to grind."
I have been NWed, just like Yisgood, by a person who had their bid canceled by me. BUT, it did no good. Yahoo!, as already mentioned, reviews NW activity. I mailed them to have them check the ID's of the submitters, as they continued to do it. It was the same person with multiple IDs.
As Yisgood said, mine has now stopped also. I suspect the person was either warned, or IDs terminated. Yahoo! knows who is submitting the NW hits, but the seller doesn't. That's the only way it will work.
The NW is a good program. If you are not guilty of TOS offenses you have nothing to worry about. If you are violating the TOS, like said earlier, better BEWARE. Your time will come, and CC will not help you, they will get you. Deservedly so, for all of us.
By the way, the people on the Sellers Zone complaining about the NW, which Yisgood mentioned, were spamming themselves. They put the spotlight on themselves, (not to wise), and as a result were found out. Most people, not all, against the NW are doing TOS violations themselves.
posted on October 17, 2000 02:15:23 PM
toyranch: U say as long as the posse is in operation you will not recommend yahoo auctions...
Well for one thing, how the heck would you know IF or IF NOT the posse was even around or not, or what they are doing since they are a group of users that meet privately in a private club that only members can access.
NO I am not a member if that's what you are thinking but I do have enough sense to know that this group is not just targeting sellers as you put it, for no good reason.
quote:
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It doesnt bother you that Yahoo has absolutely no customer service. It doesnt bother you that every misfit in the world is playing on yahoo with fake ids, deadbeating like crazy, posting bad feedback for fun. It doesnt bother you that Yahoo is known for the highest rate of fraud from any auction site.
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WRONG~! Those things DO bother me, they bother me a lot! Where have you EVER seen me say those things don't bother me?!? Please don't put words in my mouth or attribute thoughts to me like that.
Addressing issues with Y! about improving the site is one thing, that is an ongoing process. Having a self-righteous vigilante group running around is another thing entirely. That's not a site issue.
kimbo~
I know that people make posts stating that they are members of the 'Posse' and that they are vigilante auction reporters. As to what they do or do not do... or what various other splinter organizations may or may not exist... I don't know... They say what they are and what they do. That's enough for me to say that if Yahoo! condones and allows this type of activity, I will not recommend Y! auctions.
CharlieOne~
You said
quote:
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The NW is a good program. If you are not guilty of TOS offenses you have nothing to worry about. If you are violating the TOS, like said earlier, better BEWARE. Your time will come, and CC will not help you, they will get you. Deservedly so, for all of us.
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This is an example of the vigilante attitude I abhor. "Your time will come" "Better BEWARE" Yahoo! had better beware when their community takes this kind of attitude.
posted on October 17, 2000 03:47:22 PM
just like Ebay has trouble policing their site so does Yahoo. With the sheer number of listings everyday there are bound to be ones that are breaking the rules. So yahoo implements the NW program so users can help them know what to look into for "possible violations".
The rules are no good if there is not some enforcement in place. The NW'ers or the so called posse are not enforcers of the rules, they are merely a group that does exactly what yahoo wants users to do, alert them of troubling activity on their site.
Just like in real society where the police can not be everywhere at once safeguarding people, neighbors look out for one another and cameras help capture crime on tape in public places. You may not like having noisy neighbors but then again they may be able to alert the police before your house is completely ranshacked.
Likewise, If my car is sideswiped on a busy intersection by a hit and run driver, I sure hope there is a camera to catch the law breaker. If not, maybe some good citizens will help out instead.
posted on October 17, 2000 04:37:59 PMthey are merely a group that does exactly what yahoo wants users to do, alert them of troubling activity on their site.
No, I am afraid that is not the case.
RM and ToyRanch have the right take on this, that's for sure.
The Posse: What they are is a merely bunch of vigilantes. And they should be slapped down at every turn.
http://www.AIMILC.NE.JP
Inter Logic Ichinomiya, Japan
[ edited by WataruMurofushi on Oct 17, 2000 04:39 PM ]
I meant to say 'serial', but was eating Wheaties at the time, guess you could see where my mind was )
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RM
"I sincerely hope you don't wind up on the receiving end of some other tipster with an axe to grind."
I have been, but it didn't hurt me because I was NOT violating the TOS. Like Yisgood, I mailed Yahoo! Customer Care, they checked on who was doing it unjustly, and it has since stopped. If you are not in violation, you have nothing to worry about. If you are, BEWARE.
posted on October 17, 2000 05:16:28 PMCharlieOne, you just aren't getting "it", are you?
Remember when ToyRanch posted this s little while back? This is an example of the vigilante attitude I abhor. "Your time will come" "Better BEWARE" Yahoo! had better beware when their community takes this kind of attitude.
And even after that you still post THIS: If you are not in violation, you have nothing to worry about. If you are, BEWARE.
Nobody likes this brand of vigilante justice the Posse is selling. And your backing them up in a public forum is quite distasteful.
Do they have you frightened? Do they own you as they own so many others? You fear speaking out against them because you have seen them attack "nay-sayers" in the past?
I have to say that this is a foul group, deserving only to be slapped down at every turn.
[ edited by WataruMurofushi on Oct 17, 2000 05:19 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2000 06:51:51 PM
CharlieOne Wrote:
"Many "Anonymous tipsters" have lead to the capture of cereal killers."
Just a quick post to even things out a little. Anonymous tipsters are also responsible for: Wild goose chases, False reports, Incomplete and inaccurate information, predudicial information, Swat teams invading the wrong houses (sometimes with deadly consequences) and lets not forget personal vendettas.
Vigilantes put everyone at risk. Self appointed anonymous tipster "gangs" are a poor excuse for Yahoo's incompetence.
"I sincerely hope you don't wind up on the receiving end of some other tipster with an axe to grind."
I have had my auctions NWed, just like Yisgood. I mailed Yahoo! Customre Care and let them know it was probably a person I caught using three IDs to bid on my auctions, and canceled his bids. I asked them to check to see if any of the three IDs were this persons. After that, it stopped.
Yahoo! knows who is putting hits on your auctions. If a person, or persons, is hitting your auctions without just cause, they will be dealt with by Yahoo! Customer Care. There is nothing to be concerned about if you are not violating Yahoo!s TOS. If you are, they will let you know to make corrections.
If you don't make corrections, they will either delete your auctions, terminate your user ID, or both. NW is a good thing for us all.
Lets see this time if my post remains, on this third attempt. If a moderator sees anything wrong with this post, how about letting me know, before you delete it? It's been deleted twice now, with no explanation as to why?
posted on October 17, 2000 09:47:55 PM
WataruMurofushi
Toyranch also doesn't understand why rules are so important, over auctions? Check the SZ posts. Even the founder of that club had to explain to him, what we all know, without rules you would have chaos in society.
I'm sure that your not recommending Yahoo! auctions to anyone, will just devastate Yahoo! Auctions, not. I think you may be giving yourself more credit than this 'Million auction march' actually has.
Why do you and others use the term 'vigilante' so much? Yahoo! set up this program to catch members who are violating their TOS, and it works. What's wrong with that? If people agree a person is violating the TOS, at the cost of sellers who are not, why shouldn't they NW that auction?
Such members are hurting us all, and we can not conduct business equally. We need the greedy abusers to straighten out, and be fair with other sellers. Their posting the same item hundreds of times is rediculous. Where is your sense of equality and fairness?
For a person who supposedly has so much influence, if so, you have some thoughts about what is right, and what is wrong, that are very confusing to me? Maybe because you are new to Yahoo! you haven't been affected yet by spammers and the like. Turning the other cheeck will just get you more listings, by them in your category, that prevents your auctions from being seen.
The selling auction field needs to be level, not one sided by greed and selfishness.
posted on October 18, 2000 03:34:22 AM
some lister is bulk listing new id all the time for "plane tickets" for 40.00 in every possible catagory...i can't figure it out...some people bid....nw has hard time keeping up ....he claims it's a complaint against their new listing regs.......there will be no solution until yahoo sets up something better.....
You are mistaken! I don't dispute the rules. As I stated there, I will also state here, YES! Rules are good! We should all abide by the rules! Rules are important! They keep people from taking advantage! I agree with the need for rules and the need for everyone to follow them!
What I object to, and do so in the strongest way possible, is the fact that Yahoo! created the NW program so that rules violators could be reported, but only blatant violators would be brought to customer care. People who made mistakes in their listings, people who didn't know the rules, they would not be as likely to get their auctions closed, etc.
But what the 'Posse' does is to bypass the rules and the NW system and the way it was set up. It wasn't established so that a group could band together to flood reports in to get people NW'd faster and more efficiently. The Posse is bypassing the intent of the NW system. The Posse is abusing the rules itself! THAT is what I object to... that and vigilantism.
You object to the term 'vigilante'.
Miriam Webster defines it like this:
vigilante~ a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law appear inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice
The term is being used because it is the proper term to use.
You use the term 'posse'.
posse~ a body of persons summoned by a sheriff to assist in preserving the public peace usually in an emergency
That term does not fit. You were not summoned by any duly elected or appointed 'sheriff'. You are not a 'posse', you are a vigilante group. The term 'posse' would apply to a group appointed by, and responsible to, law enforcement.
If you were not appointed or summoned by Yahoo!, you are not a 'posse', you are vigilantes.
If their intent was to create this 'posse' or if they allow it to continue, then I hope ya'll have fun together, because I won't have anything to do with Yahoo! or their auctions.
posted on October 18, 2000 05:58:21 AM
Well, everybody's entitled to their opinion, and you have every right to march from Yahoo if you don't agree with their rules.
I think anyone can pull out another dictionary, and get different definitons and interpret the words differently. Just like people do with the Bible.
What you and your buddy R--- call the group is of no matter anyway. It's just another way of calling people names, only not being so blunt about it. Why you two are so against people letting Yahoo! know certain persons are hurting other sellers is very, very strange. Could it be maybe you are violating the TOS yourselves somewhere, and hoped to do it on Yahoo! too? We already know R--- was!
While I have heard persons complain about being unjustly NWed, (I have too), I have not heard ONE person say that they don't want the spammers to go. NOT one. Not quoting the dictionary, (but I will quote Websters if you want, more people recognize that name), a posse was formed in the old West to help the Sheriff get the bad guys off the street, because he needed help and couldn't do it alone. Yahoo! has done the same thing. But, in the Posse, the Sheriff makes the final call. And before you blert out, 'they're doing it on their own, and I hate that'. The Sheriff sometimes sends the Posse in different directions to search more than one location at a time.
You think whinning that if you don't get what YOU want, you won't play. Fine, go play somewhere else and take your buddy R--- with you. Take your '2 auction march' along with the both of you while your at it. You can't make Yahoo! what you want, for you and R---. We all, all the sellers, want a clean, spam free, uncluttered auction site, AS a whole group. More than two people are involved here, there are thousands. If you can't see the good in the NW, how do you think you can represent a large group, (two persons)???
). I meant to say 'serial", but while eating Wheaties, you tend to mess up. Mmmmm, mmmmm, good!