pattaylor
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posted on March 12, 2001 08:59:39 AM new
Everyone,
Please take a step back. Many of you obviously have strongly-held opinions. Just remember to address the topic, not the individual.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Pat
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:00:55 AM new
dubyasdaman- nice try, but not good enough. You seem to really to have changed your tune now that the Laura Bush "murder" has been brought up.
She wasn't even charged, so there will be no trial to avenge for the young man she "murdered".
Yeah- we're not racist. It doesn't matter who you are, just what you did. Yeah right.
Your folks bigotry and racism is showing now that Laura Bush has been shown to have committed "murder" and should pay.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:01:42 AM new
You folks have really changed youe minds when its a rich white lady under fire.
That is just too disgusting. You just insulted everyone here.
Not true at all. Apples are apples. Oranges are oranges. These two cases are so different from one another that they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread, much less compared.
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bobbi355
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:03:22 AM new
I guess what it boils down to is this - if a white boy had done this, then it would have been a racially motivated murder against a black girl - since it was a black boy who did it, it was an accident.
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Hepburn
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:04:37 AM new
Your folks bigotry and racism is showing now that Laura Bush has been shown to have committed "murder" and should pay.
This discussion is now at an end for me. Cant argue with ignorance.
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december3
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:05:51 AM new
I don't see where a traffic accident and an out and out beating have anything to do with each other.
I also would like to know how you think dubyasdaman has changed his tune?
When we start charging people involved in traffic accidents as murderers do we only charge the white ones?
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:06:37 AM new
So when a 17 year old white girl knowingly commits a CRIME and someone is killed, it is different than when a 12 year old uses wrestling moves he saw on TV and kills someone ?
Yes it is different. Laura Bush should have been held to a higher standard than the 12 year old, but she wasn't even charged.
The records were withheld because she was a juvenile !!
Yes- it's not racism or class that has anything to do with these cases is there ?
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dubyasdaman
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:07:03 AM new
Bigotry and racism have been injected into this discussion by others. I don't play the race game and I don't fall for it when baited. Sorry.
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mzalez
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:08:16 AM new
The Laura Bush car accident brought up reminds me of the Senator Kennedy Chappaquiddick incident...
Laura Bush is white? I thought she was Mexican-American.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:08:54 AM new
Look at em run when they are forced to point the damning finger at Laura Bush !!!!
Oh please ! Ignorant argument ? No- it's just your lop sided sense of justice showing.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:09:33 AM new
Yes- it's not racism or class that has anything to do with these cases is there ?
Well, the racism charge doesn't fly so let's move on to class... What's next?
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mzalez
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:12:01 AM new
Well, this is the hottest thread I've ever seen...
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december3
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:12:02 AM new
Hepburn, I'm with you. When people can't have a discussion without using racism and bigotry as their answer for everything, it simply isn't worth my time.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:16:16 AM new
The beautiful, white, first lady, Laura Bush did a criminal act and killed someone, wasn't even charged. She couldn't have ran the stop sign on purpose, it was an accident.
You all have made this 12 year old out to be a savage animal, no benefit of a doubt for him, yet every advantage for Laura Bush.
No, it's not racism. Politics maybe?
[ edited by reamond on Mar 12, 2001 09:28 AM ]
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kerryann
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:17:06 AM new
Tate's case was determined to be heinous enough to be tried in adult court, where his first-degree murder charge was predicated on the felony murder doctrine -- which says you can be held responsible for murder if it happens during the course of a felony. The felony in Tate's case was aggravated child abuse.
The above is from the Salon article. I was under the impression that first degree murder was premeditated. It sounds like that is not the case here. If the above is accurate, it is no surprise that he was convicted.
Not Kerryann on eBay
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mzalez
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:17:44 AM new
Chappaquiddick - politics
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bobbi355
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:18:18 AM new
Heaven forbid had that been a white boy ....
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:18:53 AM new
When forced to face the fact that the first lady committed "murder" and should pay for her crime under their own definitions, they flee !!!
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bobbi355
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:23:02 AM new
Yep......fleeing from a really idiotic comparison that doesn't even make sense.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:24:33 AM new
Well Helen, unfortunately, you may have been right.
No outrage her over the Bush "murder".
I guess we can "understand" running a stop sign and killing someone, but we can't "understand" a 12 year old wrestling resulting in death.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:25:59 AM new
It doesn't make "sense" because you have a full plate of empathy for Laura Bush, and none for a 12 year old black child.
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december3
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:26:42 AM new
She was first lady at 17? Wow, I thought there were term limits or was this with another husband?
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KatyD
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:29:55 AM new
reamond, your argument dragging Laura Bush into this is silly. Unless you can prove that she was under the influence at the time, and/or backed her car up to run over the victim over and over again. mzalez, I believe it is Jeb's wife who is hispanic, not Laura.
Under Florida law, the judge only had the discretion to stray from the sentencing guidelines IF he found there was not enough evidence to support the jury's verdict. He refused to make this finding, and thus was obligated to sentence this child to the mandatory life sentence. Remember, Florida voters approved the law sentencing and charging children as adults. Rather than throw out inciteful charges of "racism" the better argument here would be why so many states are moving to impose adult standards of punishment on children? And what will be the cutoff age of this trend? 5 years? 6 years? nine years? IMO, 12 years is too young to fully comprehend the enormity and finality of such acts that led to this little girl's death. Maybe not for all kids, but for a good many. And that is the problem here.
KatyD
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bunnicula
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:30:18 AM new
Rare, huh? White kids tried as adults: (and this with only a couple of minutes' search)
http://cgi.cnn.com/US/9710/07/briefs.pm/teen.adults/
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/georgiaschoolshooter990811.html
http://europe.cnn.com/US/9804/25/school.shooting/
http://europe.cnn.com/US/9712/10/school.shooting.pm/
http://www.tahoe.com/appeal/stories.7.27.00/WORLD/boysk27Jul5299.html
http://www.nctimes.com/news/071900/a.html
http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/19/missing.girl/ (this one was covered last year on 60 Minutes or 48 Hours can't remember which)
http://www.newstimes.com/archive96/nov1496/nac.htm
And let's not forget that *all* of the school shootings have been done by white kids & most if not all are being tried as adults. In fact, the Jonesboro shootings had Arkansas legislators trying to get the age to try kids as adults lowered from 14 to 10--don't know if that was passed or not.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:36:38 AM new
The Laura Bush comparision is far from silly. Do you call commiting a CRIMINAL act resulting in the breaking of the neck and death of her victim significantly different ? Is disregarding traffic laws frivilous ? Is the youg person Laura Bush KILLED less important than the girl in Florida ? Laura Bush wasn't even tried !
All the cases sited have one thing in common- criminal intent- which is absent in the Bush and Florida cases.
They must be taking their good old time trying to figure out how to defend Laura Bush.
Too bad the 12 year old didn't get that same dignity.
I have yet to hear one peep of compassion from them for the young man Laura Bush KILLED, broke his neck by her criminal act.
First word was - this case is different !
She [Laura Bush] did say in March, when asked at a campaign stop about the crash, "I know this as an adult, and even more as a parent, it was crushing ... for the family involved and for me as well."
Laura Bush apparently believes she wasn't an adult nor should be treated as one at 17 !!!
[ edited by reamond on Mar 12, 2001 09:37 AM ]
[ edited by reamond on Mar 12, 2001 09:42 AM ]
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HJW
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:38:08 AM new
reamond
Wow! That was a magnificent victory!!!
Helen
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bunnicula
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:42:07 AM new
What Reamond is failing to say is that Laura Bush (not First Lady at age 17, BTW) ran the stop sign while talking to a friend--not paying attention in other words. Hardly "murder." And that the person she killed was her own boyfriend, who was driving the other car.
This is a common derailing tactic--trying to get people to compare apples & oranges.
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reamond
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:44:28 AM new
So the 12 year old was not paying attention to his acts either - so what?
By your own standards, Laura Bush is a KILLER and should be in prison.
It is also interesting you know that Bush was talking to a friend and not paying attention. She refused to say anything about how the running the stop sign occurred. The speed she was traveling was also obscured on the report.
All you can picture is sweet, white, important Laura Bush, traveling down the road and MAYBE not paying attention, while she talks to her girlfriend.
You have shown no such empathy to the 12 year old black child.
[ edited by reamond on Mar 12, 2001 09:48 AM ]
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december3
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:46:12 AM new
It sure was a Magnificent victory. You ran everyone off without answering a single question or using simple logic once.
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bunnicula
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posted on March 12, 2001 09:50:06 AM new
But you see, December3, it is so much *easier* using the Reamond's type of tactic than to try using logic. You can bludgeon others with illogical rants, try to get them to chase your red herring and totally derail the discussion--and in doing so never have to answer questions or otherwise uphold your end of the argument.
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