posted on October 20, 2000 03:58:33 PM new
This will be my last post on this subject, unless I am attacked again for supporting the program, and the Posse.
The NW was set up by Yahoo! Auctions. They set the rules, they monitor the submissions. It is their program, and they watch everyone who submits submissions. Each submitter gets an e-mail about the auctions reported, IF they are penalized. You can't send e-mails if you do not KNOW who they are going to. As to those being NWed, with no just cause, have had such activities stopped by Customer Care, (me being one, and the Posse is a bunch of my friends). That's why this ID is not attached to my sales, because it has happened to me also. I'm sure, by those who appose the NW, and those violating the rules who got caught doing so. Hence, claims of all NW hits being theirs, is plain rediculous.
In closing, for good, here is what it states about this rediculous claim that the Posse has power to shut auctions down by themselves:
"The seller will receive notification when a certain number of reports have been left by other users. The seller should then take action and cancel this auction if it is inappropriate. After notification if the auction item receives more reports, our Customer Care Department will be notified and appropriate action will be taken per our Terms of Service.
Auctions are NOT deleted automatically. They will be reviewed by our Customer Care department prior to any deletion."
I hope all of you, who make such rediculous comments, realize now how far off base your comments are.
Edit: One more thing, before someone jumps up and states; "Yea, but all of the NW hits are being submitted at once, so there". It doen't matter if there are 4 NW hits, or 400. An e-mail is generated to the 'potential' violator on the third NW hit. Customer Care checks that time stamp, AND date, when they are notified on the forth hit posted.
The 'potential' violator is given sufficient time to check the auction, and make changes if needed, or cancel the auction to avoid Yahoo! actions. These people who deliberately violate are given every opportunity to stop this activity. They are aware of what is going on, and what they are doing. They need to stop such misuse for the benefit of every seller, and the loss of potential buyers who leave as a result.
posted on October 20, 2000 04:54:43 PM new
A monitoring system that empowers volunteers to tattle on each other and then can't protect the tattlers from being tattled upon themselves by those whom they've tattled upon in the first place,.............*huff, puff*..is a bad system. (IMO)
posted on October 20, 2000 06:52:02 PM new
Hmmm as Martha Stewart might say "It's a good thing"
Actually, Yahoo is fortunate that its users will perform such time consuming tasks like this to keep the neighborhoods clean and safe. I agree with the poster who said tht it's sad that you "can't have your granchild on your lap" - or any child over your shoulder, in front of the auctions........
The only thing wrong with the whole thing is naming it POSSE (only one E by the way) Perhaps something like Auctions Angels (maybe 3 gorgeous gals like Charlie's Angels) LOL
posted on October 20, 2000 07:04:41 PM new
Since there are more than one thread on this subject-- just had to say-- Yahoo isn't stupid. If they see flagrant misuse of the abuse reporting they will make the appropriate changes.
After all, they probably have to do the choice making on these. If they ARE NOT reviewing the ads and it has an automatic rollover on 4 reports----and person gets emailed -----then THAT IS WRONG! This would affect innocent people who did nothing more than use the wrong category by accident or necessity.
Yahoo! You need to pay attention to that very important detail.
posted on October 20, 2000 07:08:24 PM new
kasmoon~
I think the whole thing is a big ugly mess and needs a complete overhaul. Not a twist of the rules here or a 'possebegone' there. A complete overhaul.
There seems to be an impression that I don't think there should be rules, or that they should not be enforced. That is not the case at all. I think it's being done in a really horrid fashion. The rules, the reporting, the whole thing.
The community of Yahoo! sellers is set against each other. You can see it at the SZ, you can see it all over the place. There are good sellers, people who have good feedback and TRY to just sell things and serve their customers well, who are being rooted out for 'spam' or 'wrong category' by each other. Instead of helping each other sell, as is the norm elsewhere, there is a culture of tattle tales and finger pointing between folks with only good intentions.
The ones who blatantly break the rules and stuff, they need to go, not only go, but go and not come back. Software exists to pattern-match registrations and can do a lot to keep the 'bad apples' out.
Look at what's happened just here. One seller, who listed the same item in two different and appropriate categories, is now known as my 'spamming buddy'. This is not someone blatantly abusing the system. This is someone who mistakenly broke a rule, and a rule that isn't readily apparent to a newbie. Now he's labeled a 'spammer'.
Granted, he didn't endear himself to the SZ, but let's call it what it is... instead these labels of 'spammer' are applied and people's businesses are attacked. There is something inherently wrong about a neighborhood or culture that does that.
posted on October 20, 2000 07:19:54 PM new
THEIR ARE DISAGREEMENTS IN ANY FAMILY.
the seller zone is no different, if i have
a problem with the seller zone i don't stay their and argue with them or somwone, i just leave, and do something more important, i don't have the time to argue, i go to the seller zone to learn better ways to sell on the internet. their are alot of nice people their, and the founder who started the club is a great person who is very trust worthy, he e-mailed one time for an appraisal on a scifi item, and was very nice. i know sometimes their is disagreements, but like i said , tell me a family that doesn't have disagreements... as far as the posse, who cares what they are called, they get the job done, that is what it is all about, and they do it for free. "long live the posse"
"posse for president" "if it was good enough for the old west, then it is good enough for now"
startrek/wolftrek
posted on October 20, 2000 07:30:54 PM new
toyranch - don't you think that sellers turn each other in for various infractions on ebay? Of course they do.
Why are you made about *this* but not about *that*?
posted on October 20, 2000 07:40:45 PM new
Of course there are disagreements. Always will be. The nature of these disagreements being geared toward harming each other's businesses is what gets me.
VeryModern~ That has always bothered me about ebaY too! I have entered into some rather fierce discussions with people who cruise around ebaY being busybodies and looking for violations to report. The aspect of a group doing it en masse from behind a curtain is even more offensive to me. But there is no inconsistency of my position on NetCops.
posted on October 20, 2000 08:26:29 PM newToy Ranch, I have a question for you, now.
I've heard you say that as long as "The Posse" exists, you will not recommend Yahoo! Auctions to anyone in your MAM movement.
Yet, you still list Yahoo! Auctions as a MAM participant on your web-page. Why?
There seems to be a discrepency in conviction there.
I've thought about the NW program. The Posse, as a group, have done nothing that could be considered as "abuse" of the NW program in their club. Yahoo! has access to the same posts that I have reviewed, plus all the older archives, I suspect. Yahoo! also has all the NW notices received from these Yahoo! users. They can review them at will.
If what I say is fact, then what can Yahoo! do to stop any "organized" use of the NW feature where the reports they get are legitimate complaints?
My belief is that Yahoo! can't stop this type of effort, without altering the whole system. So, their only options are to try to "refine" the NW system in place...or just scrap it and start over.
I think Yahoo! Auctions has benefitted from the NW program. I would hate to see it scrapped without something better put in place. I remember all the complaints before NW.
I also believe a "beefing up" of staff, for Yahoo! to police the site on their own, will lead to the implementation of seller fees, something a lot of sellers do not want.
Specifically, what kind of overhaul do you suggest, Toy Ranch?
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
posted on October 21, 2000 01:37:14 AM new
Greetings Gawooley,
The solution is very simple. Y! Auctions can replace the Neighborhood Watch hyperlink with a Customer Care hyperlink. All reports of abuse and TOS violations would be routed to this site: http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/abuse/cgi_abuse.
This is the original site to report all violations. This would achieve the same results without the intervention of an anonymous posse.
Overall, the NW program is a double-edge sword. It has been used by legitimate users and abused by malicious abusers. The question is whether the benefits outweight the risks. The program appears to have some serious flaws and should be revised ASAP. Here's why:
1) The NW program requires 4 unique user ID's to forward an alleged violation to customer care. This could encourage a conspiracy of users to cooperate as a group in order to generate a warning message.
2) There is absolutely no oversight or accountability. A group of 4 users has the authority to automatically initiate an authentic computer generated warning message via Yahoo's servers from Yahoo! Inc. to an alleged violator's private/public e-mail address. These computer generated warning messages can be used to harrass, disrupt, spam, and overwhelm a user's private/public e-mail address. If the e-mails are blocked with a filter, a user may not receive legitimate messages from Y! Auctions.
3) The NW program relies solely on the subjective intent of a user to determine what constitutes spam, adult material, wrong category, and TOS violation. It gives no weight to the user's motive, intent, education, background, experience, etc. Instead, it relies only on the good faith and goodwill of the user. Thus, an alleged violator is considered guilty until proven innocent by Yahoo's customer care staff. This creates a psychologically chilling effect on innocent and legitimate users.
4) The NW program can be used by any user with a +1 or higher positive feedback rating. Beginners and amateur bidders and sellers can target other users at will, regardless of experience or credibility.
5) Finally, the NW program has created an atmosphere of hostility, cynicism, misunderstanding, and animosity within the Y! Auction Community. This should be enough to warrant a review of the program.
The flood gates have been opened. Even if the posse was disbanded, they could still operate as small, individual groups of 4 members. The solution would be to revise the entire program.
Just my thoughts. Goodnight!
-Gemini1818
[ edited by gemini1818 on Oct 21, 2000 02:36 AM ]
posted on October 21, 2000 05:47:11 AM new
Very good points, Gemini, and very well said.
I think that JUST sending it all to Customer Care is not quite the answer either. Customer Care has oversight for the entire Yahoo! site. There are specific issues that relate to auctions which take time to learn and understand. I think training 2 or 3 people to handle the auctions area would be appropriate.
One of the keys to ebaY's success has been their boards. People think they don't get read or that their ideas go unheard. That's not true at all. The boards are a significant resource for them. Yahoo! lacks participation in that kind of a resource. It is a weakness. Let's face it, we know more about what we are selling than they do (usually). They can learn from us, and in doing so, they can help us to trade better.
posted on October 21, 2000 06:11:30 AM new
toyranch - The inconsistency is in slamming Yahoo for allowing users to report sellers (I would not recommend) but only slamming the folks that report as opposed to the site when it comes to Ebay.
To be consistent you would need to say that you do not approve of "user police" and any site that relies on the user base to report misuse is bad, in which case you would be talking about both sites, yes/no?
It is fine with me if you do not approve of user police, or posse's named or otherwise. What galls me is your statement (loosely quoted) "I will not recommend Yahoo unless and until..." when the same thing occurs on Ebay, and on steroids in the form for VERO that shuts down legitimate seller auctions left and right and overnight!
posted on October 21, 2000 06:24:01 AM new
gemini1818said:
The solution is very simple. Y! Auctions can replace the Neighborhood Watch hyperlink with a Customer Care hyperlink. All reports of abuse and TOS violations would be routed to this site: http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/abuse/cgi_abuse. This is the original site to report all violations.
So, gemini1818, you are advocating a return to exactly what Yahoo! had BEFORE NW. I saw how that worked! Many sellers, who did not understand the "spamming" part of Yahoo!'s TOS had ALL their auctions shut down with no notice from Yahoo! The archives of The SZ should have that fact recorded in them, if anyone wants to search them.
You believe that's a BETTER program? I think not! I remember those days.
I also noticed that Toy Ranch failed to answer my question. Was that an oversight, Toy Ranch?
I'll repeat it, just in case you missed it.
Toy Ranch, I've heard you say that as long as "The Posse" exists, you will not recommend Yahoo! Auctions to anyone in your MAM movement.
Yet, you still list Yahoo! Auctions as a MAM participant on your web-page. Why?
There seems to be a discrepency in conviction there.
posted on October 21, 2000 07:35:08 AM newToy Ranch said:
One of the keys to ebaY's success has been their boards. People think they don't get read or that their ideas go unheard. That's not true at all. The boards are a significant resource for them. Yahoo! lacks participation in that kind of a resource. It is a weakness. Let's face it, we know more about what we are selling than they do(usually). They can learn from us, and in doing so, they can help us to trade better.
I couldn't agree with you more, Toy Ranch! Let's see...that's a feature that was promised to members of the SZ a year and a half ago? I guess Yahoo! is STILL trying to refine it.
George
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
[ edited by gawooley on Oct 21, 2000 07:39 AM ]
posted on October 21, 2000 07:39:41 AM new
VeryModern~
I believe this 'group' form of reporting is worse than individual action. It brings on a gang mentality.
What you say about VeRO is true, but VeRO is based on the DMCA, and ebaY did not write the law. They are just attempting to abide by it. If they did not have VeRO, a lawsuit would be filed and the resulting decision would likely result in changes so substantial as to completly destroy our ability to trade there. Yahoo! has not been such a frequent target of these Intellectual Property claims because they are not in the limelight to nearly the degree ebaY is where it comes to person to person sales.
That said, I have had conversations with ebaY and with their lead IP counsel (person in charge of VeRO) about balancing the program in a more fair manner. What we don't see is the number of threats of suit and IP claims that pour into ebaY every day. Companies that want to get the personal information of ebaY sellers so they can file suit against them individually. VeRO protects us from a lot that we never see, in addition to the abuse that it does indeed heap upon us. The complexity of this issue from ebaY's POV is way beyond what we see as users.
George~
Sorry, yes, that was an oversight. I am not Million Auction March. I am the founder of it, but there are many others involved. I had been recommending and encouraging use of Yahoo! auctions on the boards and in email and had been working with a large group of sellers and who are interested in using Yahoo! Auctions in concert with Yahoo! to create appropriate categories that would enhance their ability to participate.
All of that is suspended pending a decision and action on the NW and Posse issue. Frankly, I haven't even discussed this with other MAM folks in relation to MAM, but one of the basic concepts of MAM is that all auction sites are welcomed to be listed. Sellers have to make up their own minds about who to use. I have not recommended that anyone NOT use Yahoo!.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:19:56 AM newToy Ranch, thanks for your clarification. Perhaps you should clarify in your posts that the position you take on the posse and NW is your own, rather than MAM's. That way, readers won't misunderstand and think that the whole MAM group unilaterally supports your stance on NW, like I did. Just as statements that are made by the Founder of "the Posse" shouldn't always be taken as the position of ALL the posse members. Know what I mean?
By the way, I DO support the premise behind MAM and I've even tried some of the sites listed on the MAM page, just because they were listed there. I really hope that your efforts with Yahoo! results in improvements for all Yahoo! sellers, like the addition of categories(much needed), an announcement board, and interactive message boards. But I also know, without the increased Yahoo! Auctions numbers that you so freely tout, the MAM is more like a one-block-long parade than a Million Auction March. The MAM is very much dependent on Yahoo! in that regard.
George
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:52:01 AM new
George~
I've never claimed to be the ONLY opinion or policy maker at MAM, whereas the founder of the Posse has stated that she takes full responsibility for all actions of the Posse and has full control over all Posse actions.
I do not excercise nor claim that degree of control over MAM and have never stated that I do. After starting it, my normal method of operation is to say 'OK, what do you guys want to do now?'
posted on October 21, 2000 04:48:42 PM new
Toyranch:
"VeRO protects us from a lot that we never see, in addition to the abuse that it does indeed heap upon us. The complexity of this issue from ebaY's POV is way beyond what we see as users."
This is a very good point! I feel that before anyone can debate an issue effectively, that they must know the history behind the issue.
When you first appeared at the SZ with your complaints about the NW program, (I must tell you that I do agree with a few of them),
it soon became obvious that you had very few facts regarding the manner in which the program operated. As the facts were presented to you, it also became apparent that you had no interest in learning them, the result being, inappropriate attacks on a single person and untruths regarding the operation of the program on a variety of message boards. I personally asked that you read through the archived messages of the SZ to learn "the history" of the "talks" between the SZ and Yahoo! which lead to the creation of NW by Yahoo! Most of the Sellers on the SZ were not pleased with the program and were very leary of it. The mistruths regarding the program and attacks continued.
While I have no problem with your displeasure of the program, the fact that it can be abused, and your right to speak of that, I and many others have a very large problem with the manner in which you chose to fight this battle. Had you stood on your "own two feet" and spoke not but the truth, your credibility would still be intact.
posted on October 22, 2000 11:20:07 AM new
Leave it to Jan to separate the wheat from the chaff and get right to the "grain" of the matter!
Jan, you have just summarized what has been bothering me about this whole NW and posse discussion, yet I couldn't quite verbalize it until your post.
These "johnny-come-latelys" come ridin' in to the Yahoo! Boards, ignorant of both the facts and the history behind the NW issue, telling those of us that have been working with Yahoo! Auctions to improve the selling process for years, what's good for "us".
Toy Ranch has made posts on several boards regarding the "atmosphere" of the SZ, saying that NW has polarized sellers against each other at Yahoo! I could easily say the same thing about issues addressed here at AW, that have polarized eBay users, in the EO and RT. It's human nature...and the nature of this medium...to disagree on important issues...and the SZ is not unique.
I was aware of Toy Ranch's prior work in the auction community, but many SZ members were not. So his crediblity at SZ started at "zero" and pretty well went downhill from there, because he quickly revealed himself as being uninformed about the whole NW process. In his posts, he has seemed not to even be aware of the information about NW that is posted on the MAM web-site, in Yahoo's propaganda. His posts regarding the "nature" of the Yahoo! Auction community, and his alignment with another individual whose arguing methods are far more abrasive, didn't endear him to long-time SZ members. also.
Toy Ranch has also seemed to want to keep the focus on "the posse", rather than the NW issue. It's a lot easier to argue against a group of individuals, appealing to the audience with certain emotion-provoking buzzwords, like "vigilante" and "netcops", than to really debate an issue. But holes in those type arguments do not stand scrutiny over time. Communication scholars put those type arguments under the heading: "fallacies of relevance".
"The posse" has unfairly been accused of abuse of power, of using the NW feature for "bad" deeds. VeryModern made a very valid point, earlier in this thread, that if the posse ABUSES their power, meaning that they abuse the NW feature, they will ultimately lose their power.
Jan, most of the posters here do not know members of the posse, but you and I do. We know how consciencious those members were in addressing issues in the past, in the SZ and in meetings with Yahoo!, sometimes on the opposite side of a debate. We also know that many "posse members" have worked hard to build up feedback numbers that reach into the hundreds, now. To think that they would abuse the NW feature, and jeopardize the loss of a Yahoo! user ID with feedback that high is ludicrous.
By bringing this issue up, I suspect a result opposite of the goals of Toy Ranch will be the ultimate end. "The posse" has been pushed further into anonymity and seclusion, not because of fear of Yahoo!...or Toy Ranch...but because of the rantings of his collaborating "friend" whose reputation is far better known. A fracturing of the group into smaller factions may eventually be the result. Instead of one large "posse", there may well be several smaller ones in the future, some totally out of the "oversight" of Yahoo! Boards. I suspect new groups will also spring up. Users who had no idea how the NW feature can be abused now have a primer, should they desire that end.
NW was heartily debated in the SZ when the feature was first implemented by Yahoo! Regardless of my feelings, then....I believe NW has proven to be an effective tool in the "policing" of Yahoo! Auctions, and is certainly more seller-friendly than the previous methods of enforcement.
I urge everyone who feels strongly about this issue to contact Yahoo! in support of ..or against NW, if that is your view.
I have made up my mind to support NW, as is! Ultimately, Yahoo! has to make a decision whether they want to police their site, without the NW "aid", or to police those using the NW feature, since NW does have potential for abuse. Something tells me that Yahoo! decision will be one based primarily on economics, just as most of their decisions are made.
George
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
[ edited by gawooley on Oct 22, 2000 11:56 AM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 04:35:39 PM new
George (if I may), here is the 'sticking' point for me: most of the posters here do not know members of the posse, but you and I do. (speaking to Jan).
Would you still be as comfortable as you are with the Posse if you did NOT know the people involved
What if the people involved were ToyRanch, or even myself (one you don't seem to have a good opinion of and another you don't know)?
I understand that you can be comfortable with the Posse because you 'know' the members (and I would assume, but please correct me if I am wrong) and respect them. However, what about the other 99% of the community that has no idea who the Posse memembers are? Why should they sit back and 'trust' what the Posse memebers are doing?
PS: Not that it is really all that important, and maybe it is an expected reaction of two groups that are not familar with each other, but the fact that posters keep tying ToyRanch with another poster is, quite frankly, silly. It's like saying, because I post on this thread I am in cahoots with George or Charlie One.
Edit: One day I will learn to spell, today is not that day.
[ edited by lotsafuzz on Oct 22, 2000 04:37 PM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 05:29:14 PM new
Once again, we have someone that wants to shift the focus back to the posse instead of talking about NW.
lotsafuzz, do you know how the NW program works?
"The posse" isn't doing anything any other small group of registered users, or for that matter, one individual who has 4 Yahoo! ID's with positive feedback, can do.
If anyone abuses the NW feature they risk the loss of their user ID. Once, again, no one has actual auction removal power but Yahoo!, themselves.
If I am not spamming auctions, listing items in a wrong category, or violating Yahoo! TOS, I have nothing to fear from ANYONE who uses the NW feature....whether it's YOU, lotsafuzz, or Toy Ranch, or the posse. I trust Yahoo! to make the decision that I have properly placed and presented my items, when they go through their review. If someone, or a group, unfairly harasses me, through NW, an e-mail to CC should take care of that problem, too.
George
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
[ edited by gawooley on Oct 22, 2000 05:56 PM ]
posted on October 23, 2000 12:37:43 AM new
Greetings Gawooley,
I believe you are mistaken. I'm suggesting a reform of the NW program, not the return to the old system. By replacing the NW hyperlink with a customer care hyperlink, an individual user can effectively and efficiently report any alleged violation to Yahoo without conspiring or enlisting the support of 4 additional users. This would eliminate the incentive for group reporting. Once a violation is verified by customer care, a warning would then be issued. (Report, Verify, Warn, and Enforce TOS)
However, one fact remains which cannot be denied. The NW program has flaws which could subject innocent and legitimate users to arbitrary and capricious abuse.
People tend to focus their attention on the posse for one simple reason. They know that human beings make mistakes and errors in judgment all the time. The posse is no exception. People know that the posse members are not comprised of perfect, flawless individuals. Therefore, it is logical and reasonable for people to conclude that the posse could unfairly target innocent and honest sellers. That's why people have a legitimate concern and interest in the posse's covert operation and activities.
Well, that's my feeling on the matter.
-Gemini1818
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States
posted on October 23, 2000 05:41:08 AM newGemini1818, yes people DO make mistakes! Which is exactly the reason I prefer NW over the old Yahoo! system. With NW, you have at least 5 people looking at an auction before it is removed. That reduces a lot of mistakes. With the old system, one person could make an "abuse" complaint, then Yahoo! CC made a determination. If a TOS violation was found (in Yahoo! CC's eyes), all that seller's auctions were removed, not just the ones that violated TOS! The seller was given no advance warning, as they get with NW.
George It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
posted on October 23, 2000 07:27:58 AM new
Charlie 1
I think the main objection is, that to my knowledge no one died and made you GOD, or the vigilante "Posse"
Obviously, if you are doing all you say, you can't be doing much selling and therefore are just a bunch of trouble making ne’er do wells on a power trip.
posted on October 23, 2000 08:29:07 AM new
Well, in the old west, when a posse was put together, they generally weren't vigalante groups. Posse's had legitimate authority because they were deputized by a properly authorized authority (usually, John Wayne, or sometimes Clint Eastwood, if I remember my history correctly.)
Anyway, if Yahoo believes the posse has legitimate purposes, why not "deputize" and give them legitimate standing?
"I think the main objection is, that to my knowledge no one died and made you GOD, or the vigilante "Posse""
So, I am to understand that you will only be in favor of God's posts. You will never agree with any topic, or discussion on here then. As he/she will undoubtedly not be posting on here.
posted on October 23, 2000 11:16:11 AM new
Everyone,
The Community Guidelines require conduct to be guided at all times by basic etiquette. Please remember to address the issue, not the individual.
jwpc,
Your comments to Charlie 1 are an insult and violate the AW Community Guidelines. I am issuing you an informal warning. Continuing to post in that manner could jepordize your posting priviledges.
Here is a link to the CGs - I suggest you acquaint yourself with them before you post again.
posted on October 23, 2000 01:28:58 PM new
I AGREE LINDA...
THAT IS WHY I APPRECIATE THE POSTERS IN HERE THAT MAKE A POINT, WITHOUT HURTING ANOTHER IN THE PROCESS.
listen up sellers on yahoo, in this post area of this thread are some fine long time yahoo sellers, who have many years in the selling area, and customer relations dept. it would be in your best interest to listen up to them, they know what they are talking about, and i have learned a great deal from them, and yes at times even i didn't listen carefully. by working together you can build up a company, but if their is division, then problems will enter in, and destroy the good that was started in the first place. we all agree we need a place to sell and buy on the internet. and we agree we like free auction houses to buy and sell without fee's. and we all agree as well that their needs to be a watchful eye on the auction area's so they don't get abused, and hurt the sellers, or the buyers as a whole. and we all agree that nothing in life is 100% perfect. right now i can tell you yahoo is in the advertizing mode, not if their should be a posse, or not, as far as they are concerned if some experience sellers, or buyers, want to help report abuse of the rules, then good for them. since i listened to the experience sellers on the internet a year ago, my sales have been up, and feedback as been in 98% of the cases or more positive. these next months coming are important to all of us as a whole, let's work togehter, and see what we can do constructively to help one another, and better yahoo.
startrek/wolftrek
posted on October 24, 2000 05:38:25 AM new
Well as far as I am concerned the "Posse" is out of control. I just got a note from Yahoo about 3 people reporting one of my auctions as being in the wrong category! I won't say what the item was or where, obviously the "Posse" is listening, but it was in as correct place as is possible. It was as correct as a toy car being in the toy car category.
This is ridiculous. It is highly unfortunate that Yahoo can't handle their own site without allowing vigilantes running ramped, making rules, and trying to enforce them as they go.
Of course any intelligent seller realizes that this group can't be doing anything in sales themselves, since they have nothing better to do than play "cop". I know that selling full time on line takes ALL of my time, and I sure don’t have the time, the need, or desire to play “cop” for any site.
An old adage says those who can’t do, teach – in this instance I believe those who can’t sell, play “posse,” and try to ruin it for others.
