kerryann
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posted on April 17, 2001 12:50:45 PM new
Welcome back, James. 
Not Kerryann on eBay
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jamesoblivion
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posted on April 17, 2001 12:56:08 PM new
Thanks Kerryann.
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 12:58:08 PM new
KatyD
Don't worry about me because I am right on
this subject. The neighborhoods were
trash before the riot. The businesses
were taking advantage of the poor black
inner city people.
Now, at least there are proposals to stop
police brutality and attention is being focused on the problem.
Helen
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jamesoblivion
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:04:53 PM new
How were the businesses taking advantage of the poor black inner city people? By existing and not being owned by poor people?
You know what the response to riots and crime is? Businesses leave and the poor black inner city people have even fewer local shopping options. If the supermarket gets looted, there won't be any supermarket. Have you ever bought milk that's past it's expiraton date at a corner bodega?
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katyd
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:15:11 PM new
[i]Now, at least there are proposals to stop
police brutality and attention is being focused on the problem.[/i]
What, exactly, is the problem?
KatyD
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:16:35 PM new
James
Of course businesses have been taking advantage of poor inner city people, by
charging exorbitant prices and interest.
Slum landlords take advantage of poor people
there also. The living conditions are
horrible.
There is no security in the neighborhood.
The schools are inferior and of course they
can't afford private schools.
They don't have the money to just leave.
And you are worried about a quart of milk?
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:23:07 PM new
KatyD
Dam, I'm worried about you now. You say,
"What is the problem?"
Staggering inequality and injustice is
the problem.
Education is a primary problem and it is
being completely ignored.
There are teachers in the Washington, DC
schools without a college degree.
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:26:37 PM new
High insurance rates and no health insurance
is another serious problem.
Helen
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katyd
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:30:22 PM new
Yeah, Helen. The sky is falling. So let's go out and riot. That will solve everything. It always does.
KatyD
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:34:41 PM new
The sky 'is' falling KatyD in the inner cities throughout America and I wish there
was a peaceful way to solve the problem
but nobody will listen unless you knock
them upside the head. 
Helen
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jamesoblivion
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posted on April 17, 2001 01:49:16 PM new
Helen, I'm not worried about a quart of milk and neither are you but that's because we have a place to buy it that is near us (can I assume? ).
You do realize that the people assaulting motorists and smashing windows aren't the people that are concerned about the lack of security in their neighborhoods -- they are the people that cause the lack of security.
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katyd
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posted on April 17, 2001 02:02:37 PM new
Then what are you doing here, Helen? Shouldn't you be out somewhere rousing a rabble? Hurry! There's not much time left! 
KatyD
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HJW
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posted on April 17, 2001 02:23:56 PM new
KatyD
I'm here raising everyone's conciousness.
I have to go buy a quart of milk right now.
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katyd
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posted on April 17, 2001 02:42:45 PM new
Don't forget to check the expiration date, Helen!
KatyD
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jlpiece
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posted on April 18, 2001 01:29:28 AM new
HJW
After Clintons' 8 years in the white house, WHY are there teachers in DC schools without a degree...
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sideslam
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posted on April 18, 2001 06:22:53 AM new
How in the world can them people even justify what they done? There is no excuse. If they even have one, it is a pathetic excuse.People that were out there doing that were criminals to begin with. Anyone that is brought up with good morals and decent ethics don't go looting stores, burning buldings, attacking people.
I grew up in Detroit. I now live right now about 1 mile out of Detroit. While living in Detroit this is what I grew up with.First night being in our new house, our house is robbed. They take our sewing machine, tv, among other things. A year later robbed again. For a total of three times.Someone knocking on our door at night trying to get my dad to come out of his house so they can rob him. Then the neighbors laugh about it. It nice when the police have to go to there house to get our stuff back. Finnally my dad got a big German Shepard dog. That solved our problem. But in the meantime there burning down vacant houses all around us just for the fun of it. What was there excuses for that?
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HJW
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posted on April 18, 2001 07:45:24 AM new
jlpiece,
The District of Columbia has been under home rule for over 20 years.
Now, the District of Columbia and the federal government is in a
period of redefinition. I hope that this will lead to improved
standards in the school system.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on April 18, 2001 07:59:13 AM new
I moved to Michigan about 25 years ago and have worked with people like sideslam that live in or near Detroit and they usually tell me it is too expensive to live out in the suburbs. But the same people have at least one story a week of their car being damaged the garage broken into etc etc. So how much does that cost?
All the time I have lived here the politicians have said every year how much better things will be soon and every year they are worse. The people have voted with their feet. There are less than a million people from the last census in Detroit and
than was important because it reduces the amount of money they will get from the state.
I have twice turned hjobs down in the city because it is not safe traveling down there and they add a city income tax.
I have no solution to it except to remove myself and my money from it so I don't help prolong it. There is lots of predudice in the city and suburbs both. I have gone to restaurants where I was ignored until I left.
Somepeople can't resist dishing a little back out whether they know the person they are hurting is worthy or not.
I went to a bar on payday with a bunch from a machine shop and the one red neck wanted to
give a black guy a hard time because he was with a white girl. I told him if he started a bar fight I would take the black guys side. That caused a fellow worker to say me too!!
The first fellow looked at him and said Jiom - You hate those (#####) as much as me! Yes he said but if we are having a fight I am on happy's (my shop nick name) side here because he will rip a leg of the table and clear the whole floor out in about 2 minutes. Sort of defused it. Good idea about the leg. I was looking at the coat rack actually - it looked pretty sturdy.
[ edited by gravid on Apr 18, 2001 08:12 AM ]
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HJW
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:04:07 AM new
sideslam
I understand your concern about violence.
But, I have one question for you.
Just suppose these people who were engaged in the riots
were well educated with a good job and a
happy home. Do you think that they would then
be out in the street looting tennis shoes?
Helen
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gravid
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:26:58 AM new
HJW - I appreciate your view. The people you are talking about are miserable and are often treated bad.
I just have this practical view that in every country in the world under every political system there are always people who are on the edges of society - barely making a living and living in the cast offs of the rest of society.
I think that if you have the resources and try that you can bring many of them into the mainstream and make them assets instead of liabilities. But never all. I don't have the resources. I am struggling too hard to keep from being someoine who needs help to volunteer time to a tutoring program or a shelter.
It is well to feel compassion for them but I don't want to go to the extreme and say Hey if they bust my windows out and steal my stuff that's OK. It is not OK.
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HJW
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posted on April 18, 2001 09:11:36 AM new
gravid,
I surely wouldn't want to break YOUR window,
gravid.
I'm just trying to point out that neglect and
abuse of people will inevitably lead to violence...unfortunately.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on April 18, 2001 09:47:43 AM new
Absolutely - Same as they are figuring out that if you allow the skinny/fat/nerdy/look funny kids to be bullied they will occasionally snap and massacre the school and maybe not in any rational way targeting those that are really hurting them because they are not thinking rationally.
We had those problems in school when I was younger but there was not the message in popular culture that you a fool if you don't take arms and fix the injustice yourself.
Here in Detroit we have had 3 people killed by security guards (unarmed) in the last year. In 2 of the 3 there is no doubt or arguement they were doing some heavy shop lifting.
I think the end effect will be the further flight of business from the city because the exposure to law suit is too great.
I knew some Caldeans who had supermarkets in the city and they had to close them and leave because even with the higher prices it was not profitable to work from the inner city location. They also were robbed several times and figured it was only a matter of time until they had family or help killed.
I had a job when younger in a gas station in a bad area and a fellow came in and we thought he was going to rob us. Whem the fellow got done pumping his gas (full service) he kept the nozzle in his hand and went to the window. Whe the guy lifted a big gun up he sprayed gas in the window all over the guy and the inside of the car. The guy froze. That's right - he said - go ahead and shoot. He would have been crispy critters from the muzzle flash igniting it. He got the gas but no money by driving off.
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jlpiece
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posted on April 18, 2001 10:38:19 AM new
Lot of us here from Detroit...
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gravid
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posted on April 18, 2001 02:46:51 PM new
The whole area is well wired because Ann Arbor was a center of 'net culture
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sideslam
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:37:26 PM new
HJW, I am a firm believer in life is what you make it. Anyone can overcome anything if they have the ambition and willpower. Just because you are poor or not educated does not mean you can not change that.But that takes work.There looting tennis shoes because they want something for free. And what a better oppritunity than during a riot. This comes down to morals.
I have worked with young teenagers from Detroit that would take 3 buses just to get to work. And it would take them 2 hours to get to work all for 6 bucks a hour. Every day.Then go onto to school. Just to make a better life for themselves.Because they have ambition, and willpower.
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HJW
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posted on April 18, 2001 09:36:40 PM new
Sideslam,
You are absolutely right!!! Poverty and lack of education can be overcome. With better schools and job opportunities for young
people a remarkable change can take place.
I admire the young people that you mentioned with so much ambition
in spite of their poor economic circumstances. Unfortunately,
though, it's not the norm for several reasons. First, inner city children may
not have good roll models or parents. In a lot of cases, their
fathers and brothers are in jail or have been in jail. Single
mothers are overwhelmed with the situation and have little time
to spend with the children. So the children form gangs which become a
sort of family. Eventually, the gangs lead to
crime and jail when they should be in school.
I'm sure that you know all about this, but I just wanted to thank you
for your answer and let you know that I understand your position.
Life is certainly what you make it but it takes some help that
is generally not available to inner city children.
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Apr 18, 2001 09:42 PM ]
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jlpiece
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posted on April 19, 2001 08:41:15 AM new
I still can't figure out why the situation in the inner cities is as bad as you mention HJW after all the things that Clinton did over the last 8 years. I was under the impression that things had gotten so much better for this nations innercities. After all look what he did for the public school system...
Lets pretend for a minute that it isn't the economic conditions or the despair of life in the inner city that causes these horrendous test scores for public school children and black children in particular. Lets pretend it isn't the prevalence of gangs in the neighborhood that cause it.
Let's just pretend that it is the ridiculous beuracracy of the public school system that causes it.
Now lets see how things look in my fantasy world...
http://www.noexcuses.org/lessons/beverly.pdf
Things are so much nicer in my world because I see the solutions. You can only see the solutions when you know the real problem.
edited kuz i kant spel.
[ edited by jlpiece on Apr 19, 2001 08:43 AM ]
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HJW
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posted on April 19, 2001 08:59:45 AM new
jlpiece,
I am not interested in your fantasies and
let's pretend games.
I am interested only in reality. I have
mentioned the problems in my previous posts
This thread is about police brutality
aganist a poor and underpriviledged group
of people.
What is your opinion of the "real"
problem
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Apr 19, 2001 09:03 AM ]
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jlpiece
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posted on April 19, 2001 09:05:08 AM new
Click on the link and read. Don't worry it's in pretty basic english and not too long.
HJW your last post had nothing to do with police brutality.
lack of opportunity... poor education... turning to gangs.... sound familiar?
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HJW
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posted on April 19, 2001 09:22:37 AM new
jlpiece,
I have two posts for you.
First, my brief analysis of the
problems found in the inner city which
were posted earlier in this thread.
Staggering inequality and injustice is
the problem.
Education is a primary problem and it is
being completely ignored.
There are teachers in the Washington, DC
schools without a college degree.
Of course businesses have been taking advantage of poor inner city people, by
charging exorbitant prices and interest.
Slum landlords take advantage of poor people
there also. The living conditions are
horrible.
There is no security in the neighborhood. Children can't play outdoors
because of bullets flying around.
The schools are inferior and of course they
can't afford private schools.
They don't have the money to just leave.
High insurance rates and no health insurance
is another serious problem
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