posted on April 20, 2001 01:37:05 PM new
That's what really gets me: the depiction in the Bible of what to expect from God. In many places, God is described as having the manners and morals of a spoiled brat! Imagine any Supreme Being that can be swayed by flattery, desires flattery, demands flattery and if He doesn't get it, He'll just lay low a whole city or two! Sheese! Not only that, but like I mentioned above, you have only two choices: either you gather around Him in Heaven and spew Eternal Flattery at Him, or you didn't deserve to be there doing that and instead, you are in non-stop pain and agony year in and year out, thousands of years, millions of years, billions, trillions of years, forever, Eternity of punishment because you didn't Flatter Him enough when alive!
Hey! I'm not being a jerk! Go read the Bible and see for yourself!
I SHUDDER to think of all of those LITERALISTS, who think that the Bible is a finished work, set in concrete and steel, and have only the choice of Eternal Damnation or Eternal Flattery! Worse, is that every one of these Literalists think that if you are an atheist, then your beliefs have to be that when you die, there is nothing. How arrogant that is! Like, as if somehow Christians have the whole ball game on the after-life and it's their Rules or its No Rules!
No, I don't believe in a cruel God, a God that needs to be Flattered, an afterlife that requires extreme obedience in this life or else Punishment awaits. Somehow, to attribute those sorts of things to a Supreme Being doesn't make God very Supreme at all, IMO.
posted on April 20, 2001 01:55:48 PM new
If I married Satan (or Beezlebub or what-ever, you know?)...but if I was real good and I even tried to get him to mend his ways...
I mean like wouldn't that be a great service?
Um, anyway...do you think I'd go to heaven?
Editing to add: Not that I'm considering it. This is just a hypothetical question, besides I've already got several husbands...
posted on April 20, 2001 02:18:23 PM newGod is male
I tried to stay away from this thread but I just couldn't do it...
If God is male, wouldn't he have a penis? If he has a penis, wouldn't that mean its purpose is for sex? With whom would God have sex?? And "immaculate conception" (with no physical contact) doesn't count.
If God has a penis, he's a physical being and not a god. If he doesn't have a penis, he's not male.
posted on April 20, 2001 02:41:27 PM new
Borillar,
You ever see The Rapture starring Mimi Rogers? It's the only film, I think, to ever depict Judgment Day in a serious context.
As the film concludes we find Mimi Rogers standing in a dark cavern that's either Purgatory or Hell -- either way, it's an afterlife realm apart from God. Her character has gone from being a soulless directory assistance operator who has sex with couples she picks up at a local airport to a religious fanatic who kills her little girl in the belief that God wants her to.
Throughout the movie she has sought the real meaning of God and makes one mistake after another. As she stands there in limbo, her daughter appears. She says, "Mommy, God wants you to join him in Heaven. He's waiting for you.". There's just one condition: Mimi has to say she loves God before she can go.
The daughter pleads and begs her mother to say she loves God, but the mother has finally learned the truth about God -- that he is cruel and unjust and jealous and vindictive. Having deluded herself throughout the film, she can no longer evade the truth -- no more than she can say that she loves this being.
The daughter cries and begs, but Mimi stands fast. The daughter vanishes and so does all chance of redemption. The film closes in silence, with Mimi standing alone in the cavern of Hell, forever shut off from God.
Your post eloquently summed up some of the same misgivings I have about God (at least as he is depicted by Christian religions and the Bible -- though I must admit in one book of the Old Testament he imposed a plague of white mice and hemorrhoids upon an enemy nation and I thought, "Now there's a God with a sense of humor! " ). He seems a cosmic egomaniac and tyrant -- damns his favorite angel for saying "I will not serve." Toys with humans in sadistic ways to make them prove their love and loyalty. Punishes them for following the very natures he gave them. Heck, if what I learned growing up Catholic is true, I'm damned already -- and why? Because I don't go to Mass. Or because I have used a method of birth control. Supposedly these erase the good I have done in my life. Personally I reject these interpretations. I can't believe that the cosmic mind could be so petty. But then again, there is an old quote, "If there is a cosmic mind, must it be sane?"
I really don't know what to think, so I just go along hoping that my own instincts about God are the right ones, and I act accordingly.
posted on April 20, 2001 02:48:56 PM new
Borillar -
Kind of OT, but speaking of literalists, I have asked a certain religious group why they won't accept blood transfusions, but it's OK to wear prescription glasses, and didn't get a straight answer. It's the inconsistancies that are there that I don't understand (???).
posted on April 20, 2001 03:12:31 PM new
kraftdiner,
That they couldn't answer you is ignorance rather than inconsistency. They could have answered with:
"Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat" (Genesis 9:3-4); "[You must] pour its blood out and cover it with dust" (Leviticus 17:13-14); and "Abstain from . . . fornication and from what is strangled and from blood" (Acts 15:19-21).
posted on April 20, 2001 03:20:20 PM new
Not quite, Ken. Those passages refer to one of the Biblical dietary laws that prohibit eating blood. The practice where people refuse blood transfusions is based upon a theology that no trust can be placed in humans to heal.
posted on April 20, 2001 03:45:23 PM new
Actually the doctors are coming around to agreeing with the wisdom of avoiding blood transfusions. I had a friend whoes little girl needed surgery and he was concerned about whether she would need blood. The surgen who was an oriental gentleman said Oh - no - I don't use blood. I got tired of all the hepititus I had to treat in my patients.
posted on April 20, 2001 03:46:32 PM new
The way I look at it is if there really is a god (I will use "he" to kept it simple)why wouldn't he let himself be known to us and what he expects from us. If he is so close to us why does he hide his face?
I went to Catholic schools from kindergarden through high school. I lived in fear day and night that I could never be good enough. I went through an atheistic period, then born again, and now agnostic. I have a sinking suspicion that this is it folks. There ain't no more.
I believe that religion was created to keep us in line. You can neither prove nor disprove it. And telling me the bible says so doesn't cut it. We would have chaos in this world between the haves and have-nots, but telling people that they are really going to have it great when they are dead or that they will be severely punished keeps many people in line.
I would love to believe or have faith but I don't and you can't wake up and say
"today I believe" and make it true. If god is good and loving why does he give faith to some and not to others?
I still read the bible because I think that the old testament is beautifully written but the more I read it the less I believe. If the bible is true we would not have to guess at what it means, god would make it pretty damn clear.
If it is all true how can so many horendous things be done in god's name? Does he really want people to torture, slaughter and murder in his name?
How can the Catholic church see so many millions of people starving and suffering and still live in circumtances that most people would consider heaven on earth? 2 Corinthians says: "Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit." (2:17) Is god pleased when millions upon millions is spent building churches and the poor suffer? I think not.
The bible speaks against a man "spilling his seed on soil" but yet many believers have no problem with abortion. Which is a more serious a transgression?
Better to live, love, and try to be happy because what you sees is what you gets...and if I'm wrong, boy am I in big trouble. Nah, he understands.
posted on April 20, 2001 04:04:11 PM new
People have long misinterpreted the "spill the seed" story. Onan wasn't punished for spilling his seed (masturbating) per se, but for disobeying God's command to go impregnate a woman of God's choosing. Yet opponents of masturbation (lol, right) keep dragging out the Onan story as proof that masturbation is wrong. But it's a misread. Disobeying God is the act being condemned, not spanking the monkey.
Unless I'm mistaken, the reference group asked the question is Jehovah's Witnesses, and they do rely on the cited passages in justifying the stance against blood transfusions. You're thinking of Seventh Day Adventists?
posted on April 20, 2001 04:21:41 PM new
Thanks KRS.....but the person I talked to said that God spoke of intervention that was to be replaced with God's way & faith. I simply said if that was the case, God obviously wanted him to have bad eyesight and I saw the glasses as an intervention, not God's "will". He didn't know how to respond.
I was trying to point out the inconsistancies of the Bible he was reading and how certain things were interpreted by his religion.
________________
When talking about God, I think of God as an energy that's in everything. I think everything that's bad in the world, starvation, wars, etc. are solely mans fault and have nothing to do with God. I think everything God could do, we can too because that energy lives in every one of us.
It's unfortunate that so many people have been taught that religion is so controlling. I think God had in mind for it to be the other way around.
posted on April 20, 2001 04:41:48 PM new
I don't regard "bossy but intelligent" as a particularly kind "compliment." Nor do I like your suggesting that I'm the person stringing everybody along (and fuzz and katy are right, it's one of the oldest schticks on these boards). If you knew anything of my history in these forums, you'd know that's not my way.
posted on April 20, 2001 04:51:52 PM new
spaz - for clarification, I said "a bit bossy and intellegent" referring to the "profile" of the unknown poster. I could have put anyone's name there (someone already mentioned KRS) to fit this profile, myself included. I chose you because everyone knows you so well.
.........that's my story and I'm stickin to it! Don't be such a less-than-poopyhead!
edited to appease
[ edited by kraftdinner on Apr 20, 2001 05:10 PM ]
