posted on June 9, 2000 08:47:03 PM new
Hi, everyone it is really good to see good people talking and helping others. I recently I found out that I have been involved in a scam from a guy who sold me 10 Palm Pilots for 1.6g. I have paid him through one of those payme dot com type services so I used my credit card which offers the greatest protection as I heard. It has been a month since this guy said the shipment has shipped, but then it never got here. I was trying to settle with this guy and he stopped answering phone calls(Never returned my phone calls or even picked up)and emails. I don't know what to do. I have contacted FTC, and other fraud prevention agencies and organizations. I am not going to let this guy go that is for sure. But when I sue him would I get my money back or possibly the Palm Pilots and whatever costs me, if I win that is? I might have to fly all the way across us(I live in North Carolina and this guy lives in Arizona). And if that is not the case what can I do. I know contacting the local police department is the first thing that I should do. They will give me insight on what to do next at least. Any personal experience here? Please share it with me and others like me. thanks in advance
michael-
posted on June 15, 2000 04:39:28 PM new
you are mistaken if you think paypal will track down who has anyones money! I was involved in a big scam, set up by someone using a money req. thru paypal. they were NOT the seller, and the fraud stold 160.00 from me.paypal has flat out told me it is not there responsibility, go figure. certainly someone can track this thief. i will keep trying...... any suggestions would be helpful, kb
posted on June 18, 2000 04:12:38 PM new
Very true that the www.payme.com will not do anything. I have put a dispute on the credit bill. That is the best I can do for now. I am going to local police station for more help tomorrow. This is very fugged up. It has been so frustrating for me over a period of 5 weeks. I will get this guy in jail.
Oh btw are you interested in sueing paypal or other services who does not offers any protection against fraud? I am willing to take a step forward for the people. They are encouraging the fraudulent people!! And they are saying that it is not their fault? Worse than napster!! The paypal payme all that cra* are nothing but breeding ground for the criminals.
posted on June 21, 2000 02:57:01 AM new
Redtj98, this is the link to Internet Fraud Complaint Center, if u ever get ripped off file a complaint with them, I tried it once and was amazed at their reponse, but canceled the complaint when I finally received the item after waiting for over a month, check it out:
https://www.ifccfbi.gov/
posted on June 30, 2000 12:59:47 PM new
If the seller advertised as a business, you can file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau on the internet. They will contact the business and try to work out a solution. They can sometimes get your money back or get your items. In my case the business filed bankruptcy and I was left holding the bag.
posted on July 7, 2000 08:35:57 AM new
You had better be careful about disputing the credit card charges. Your contract with Paypal was to send the money, which they did as you requested. They were not a party to the transaction of 10 Palm Pilots. What is to preclude Paypal from filing a collection should you be successful with the dispute, as they have performed their obligations. You would have better protection had you paid the seller directly.
posted on August 11, 2000 05:07:05 PM new
I bought a computer from someone who scammed me, but fortunately I bought insurance to protect me against fraud from this company www.webtradeinsure.com. You should check them out for future purchases.
posted on August 13, 2000 03:10:16 PM new
REDJT98 - FYI ! ! !
I have been using PayPal.Com for several months. For the most part they are OK. "docblack" is correct in that PayPal.Com only made a contract to send money, HOWEVER, if PayPal.Com had to charge your credit card for the payment, you should be able to go through PayPal.Com to get at the fraudulent's account.
Recently I had to make a large payment which the seller wanted PayPal.Com. PayPal.Com (merged with WWW.X.Com) allows for the Payee to be "VERIFIED" as long as the Payee has opened an X.Com account using a CREDITED Bank and/or Credit Union. I informed the seller he could either get himself "VERIFIED" with PayPal.Com which offered me up to $5,000.00 worth of protection, or he would have to process my Credit Card information (which would have cost him ~5% of purchse price). In my case, I was lucky to be dealing with a reputable person. He got himself verified and the transaction went off without a hitch.
posted on August 14, 2000 07:54:58 AM new
I believe the buyer mentioned that he used Payme - not Paypal. Here is the good news. I have stopped using or accepting Payme for one reason. They take MONTHS to pay the other party. A customer paid me in May and I didnt receive the funds until July. I paid a seller in May and he just got the funds LAST WEEK. This indicates to me that Payme has not yet paid your seller. Your charge back just might work. Incidentally, I did a charge back on Payme after my seller and I hadnt been paid. I was going to pay him with a different service when Payme suddenly woke up and paid us after all. So contact Payme immediately and tell them to stop the payment. Then contact the various agencies that handle fraud. Let us know what happens.
Good luck.
posted on August 14, 2000 10:15:20 AM new
"yisgood" - your correct. The seller did mention Payme.Com NOT PayPal.Com. should have paid closer attention.
Aside from that ...
I have a little more information concerning the PayPal.com Fraud protection. PayPal.Com does NOT require the X.Com account, only adding a reference to a valid credit card, Bank Account, OR Credit Union Account. The person then becomes "Verified" and you will have up to $5,000 worth of protection.
I also received a notice from my Credit Union that my Credit Cards are now protected against Online Fraud up to $10,000 AS LONG AS I KEEP RECEIPTS AND PROOF OF PURCHASE/PAYMENTS. More and more credit card companies are offering this "bennie" to entice customers.
When I started to buy things online (much les via the telephone) several years ago, I acquired a Credit Card for this purpose. I Established the Credit Limit of the card and had to have the Credit Card Company reduce the limit when they automatically tried increasing it.
Paranoid ?!?!? Probably, but it saved me a few times.
I am NOT an advicated of PayPal.Com, I use them because they seemed to be the best choice at the time (I did some research on several services and came up with this one).
I welcome any feedback from others that have/heard of better.
posted on August 16, 2000 11:03:24 AM new
imnetuser: Please explain how you came up with it costing the seller 5% to process your credit card.
MOTO rates are normally between 1.9% and 2.9% I have never heard of 5% for anyone.
I personally would not have become verified to suit you. Paypal knows the billing address of every user that has a credit card on file with them. If that user has money transferred to a bank account paypal also has their bank account info.
ALL verification means is that you have given them leave to attempt to take money out of your bank account. It has nothing to do with you being "reputable".
Does your Credit Union protect you against electronic withdrawals from your account? Probably not. In most cases if money is taken out of your checking account electronically, you have to got through hoops to get it back if ever. I have a block that funds can't be withdrawn from my accounts unless there is a signed statement from me giving permission.
Several of my relatives are excutives with banks or involved in the credit industry. I had a very enlightening discussion with them about PayPal and other online payment services not too long ago. Protect yourself as much as possible and don't give 3rd parties liberties with your info and accounts.
posted on August 16, 2000 11:12:01 AM new
grumpyebayer: As someone who used to accept CC directly until about a week ago (thanks Paypal, Payplace, Ecount, Achex) I calculated that it did cost me 5% (and more) to do this. I paid a set up fee, an annual fee, a monthly statement fee, a transaction fee of 25 cents per transaction, and the percentage (which varied from 2.5% for Discover to 3.75% for Amex). Once I started using the free services, CC sales went down. Last month I only had one. That one sale ended up costing me more in CC fees that the profit. So I just cancelled my merchant account. It's silly for the bank to make more money than me on my efforts.
By the way, in order to open a merchant account, you have to agree to let the merchant bank access your account. So I am giving them even more liberties than I gave Paypal and they give me even less protection.
posted on August 16, 2000 12:29:28 PM new
yisgood: When looking for processors you have to shop around.
I pay:
NO annual fee. NO monthly fee. NO batch fees. NO set up fees. NO equipment or lease fees (I purchased PC charge for around $200). My rate 2.10 + .22 a transaction. Chargeback fee: first 3 are free per month. $6.00 thereafter.
I Don't take Amex. They wanted 3.5%
Many of those fees you named are how independant salesmen make their money. Many times if you contact the issuing bank directly you get a better fee or they will reccomend you to a good processor.
My money goes directly into my business account. Not a bank account the processor set up. They get nothing unless, I check the amounts and approve them.
The reason so many processors want merchants to deposit their credit card money into certain banks and set up accounts with those banks is those banks are very processor friendly. Meaning the processor can take funds out of your account for almost any reason and you almost never get them back.
A mom and pop operation near me had a rotten time with a processor... They couldn't get anyone on the phone... They had been lied to about rates and services... Pretty much every bad thing that could happen did. They decided to switch to a processor that I and another store use. They went to withdraw out their funds from their old merchant account. Nearly everything had been cleaned out by the processor. The bank let the processor do this beacuse the processor wanted to "be compensated for up to 6 months in average fees" as their termination fee.
Don't be afraid to bargain on merchant costs. They are negotiable especially the percentage rate. Another decent source for merchant accounts are wholesale clubs. Sam's, Costco, and some professional organizations ofetn offer processing to members at very low rates.
My friend gets processing for retail at 1.3% (which is a really good rate) through his college's alumni association.
There is a site that has really great info on accpeting credit cards. They have lists of good processors and processors that have excessive fees. If I can find the link I will post it.
posted on August 16, 2000 12:35:16 PM new
I spent a long time researching processors at I took the best deal that I could find. It was still no bargain. I called Costco because someone told me that they have this service and whoever answered the phone couldnt understand what I was talking about. Its kind of strange considering that Costco themselves only take Amex.
If you could get me info on who you use, I would appreciate it. I got the merchant account before Paypal and all the other services started up, when I felt I needed it. I was doing over 5k a month.
I have never had a successful chargeback on my account. Three attempts, but they all failed.
My email is [email protected]
posted on August 16, 2000 03:28:46 PM new
grumpyebayer: I think yisgood has already explained the 5%. In my case, the seller had a new account with a processor where he did a low volume of "Business" (read charging). I understand processors charge different amounts depending on your balance, number of charges, amount charged, etc. This is what was relayed to me.
As for the "Verification", the verification is for the Payer in case of fraud on the Payee. PayPal.Com can NOT take money out of my account UNLESS I agree to it. If there are any fees, you agree to them if and when you sign up. Also, PayPal.Com merged with X.Com, which is established as part FirstWestern Nation Bank (Member of FDIC). Most of the online pay services I checked were not banks (therefore not part of FDIC).
Finally, in response to your question:
"Does your Credit Union protect you against electronic withdrawals from your account? Probably not ?
The answer is YES ! ! ! !
This is a NEW service my Credit Union is offering. As I stated in my previous post, I need to keep ALL receipts (Transactions, E-Mails, etc). However, if someone has attempted to withdraw money from my account via EFT I did not authorize, I have to notify them within 60 Days and fill out a fraud kit. The money will be contested and I will be credited the money while the amount is in dispute. By making the customer fill out the Fraud Kit, the customer becomes liable IF HE/SHE IS LYING (just like a charge back on a Credit Card). My credit union started this because they WANT more of the customers to use the internet for their banking needs. The OBVIOUS result is to eventually scale down on the number of actual facilities they have to maintain.
I have established/done four things for Online Credit.
o Separate account at my Credit Union which is NOT tied to any other accounts (therefore no money can be transferred from other checking, savings, etc into the new account).
o Received an ATM/Debit card for the new account.
o Established X.Com account (with ATM/Debit Card).
o Established PayPal.Com account.
I verified the account with X.Com, which I tied to the new credit union account. I refused overdraft protection on both X.Com (no longer available now) and the credit union account. If I make a payment from the PayPal.Com account where more funds are needed, it pulls the money from the X.Com account AFTER I AUTHORIZE IT ! X.Com account can NOT automatically charge money to the credit union account.
I can transfer money in to the X.Com account when I need it. I can EASILY take money from the X.Com account via the Debit card (where X.Com pays for ATM Transaction fees - up to 6 times per month). I never try to keep more money in the accounts than I can afford to lose (for me this is not much).
Am I secure ?!?!?!? NOT ABSOLUTELY !!!
I have been described as paranoid with my setup. Maybe I am. I try to protect myself. I do NOT claim to have the best solution, it just works for me. If there are better one's out there, I am interested in hearing them. For the most part, Banks/Credit Unions (any financial institution for this matter) tends to provide the most for the people with the money to invest in their places of business.
Remember, the verification is for the payer as much as the payee. I didn't want to make a LARGE payment WITHOUT some type of protection. In my case, the seller being verified meant that if he stiffed me on my product, I had a way to get my money back. I made my case with the seller and he agreed in part because hi initially announced he would accept Credit Cards.
As a final thought. I had purchased several computers ~3-4 years ago. I had one seller located on the East coast that claimed he never received my Money Order. The dimwit (I call him this as you will realize below) didn't realize that I could put a claim on it. I went to the Post Office and filled out a claim (I always use the Post Office for MO's). Imagine my SURPRISE when the Post Office showed my a receipt (WITH the seller's Signature) from where the MO was cashed ! ! ! ! I called/E-Mailed the seller several times EXPLAINING the PO had a receipt with his name. I kept getting similar responses - MO never received.
I filed a FORMAL Complaint with the PO - providing all of my electronic receipts and E-Mail concerning the subject sale. I eventually did get my money back. The seller finally agreed that he had my MO, cashed it in, but FORGOT he had done it. Apparently I was not the first person he had done this to. The seller was charged with Fraud using the PO (I don't remember the exact charges). I was LUCKY - I got my money back.
I do try to protect myself. I have said enough. I never claimed to know the answer, just some thoughts based on personal experience.
posted on August 23, 2000 03:15:37 AM new
IMNetUser: yisgood explained the 5% in HER case, which is high. Rates are almost never based on volume. Sometimes you will get a discount if you do a huge amount of MC/Visa sales. If they give you the discount it is normally after 6 months and have established a selling pattern. Balance, number of charges, and amount charged have nothing to do with it. You get a percentage when you sign up and that is what you keep no matter what the transaction.
Most banks will do what your credit union is doing with unautorized withdrawals. They will do the whole fraud alert thing. It is stopping the money from coming out in the first place that my banks protect against.
One thing about credit unions though, they are normally a lot easier to deal with than banks.
I don't think you are paranoid it is very hard to be sure of who you are dealing with on the internet. Most fraud though comes from face to face transactions.
Postal money orders and western Union money orders are great. They will trace them very quickly.
yisgood: My processor has stopped doing Mail order account for a little while. However you may want to look into echo-inc.com. If you have your own equipment you don't have to lease from them. Their rates are pretty good and they don't have a lot of hidden fees.
posted on August 23, 2000 06:54:44 AM new
grumpyebayer: Thanks for the info. I just cancelled my merchant account. With all the free services out there, I dont need it.
By the way: You are the second person to refer to me as female and I was wondering where that came from.
posted on August 24, 2000 11:05:09 AM new
yisgood: I don't know why I did that. I didn't even notice until you pointed it out...So how about a date HOT MOMMA???
posted on August 24, 2000 06:54:09 PM new
I haven't experienced any fraud yet. Hopefully "haven't" doesn't become "have". I just dispise people who bid, don't pay, no communication with you, which as a new seller on eBay, has cost me a big chunk of my small profit in fees. I guess I have to start notifying eBay about "Bidders who don't pay". Sorry to change the subject.
dbergsr
posted on August 29, 2000 02:45:34 PM new
In answer to everyone who was scammed,and that includes me. The only solution is never pay your visa or master card bill until merchandise is recieved.When my merchandise did not come I paid my credit card bill less the amount from the scammer.I wrote a letter explaining the situation and they said they would handle it. I did pay with pay-paland spoke with them. They have a verification process that did not show up on my transaction. They said it was a glitch in their software. So therefore it became their problem. Just remember DON'T PAY FOR WHAT YOU DON'T GET.
posted on September 4, 2000 04:47:29 PM new
eMail me privately at [email protected]
As for PayPal they now have in place where we should get verified. If we deal with anyone that is not verified or we are not verified and it goes sour they are not liable but if both parties are verified they will make good on it.
