reamond
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posted on February 6, 2001 09:15:54 AM new
Amazon's "cash" position is not as rosey as one might think when liabilities are subtracted.
Remember- when you accept one-click payments, you are an Amazon creditor too.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010206/wr/amazon_lehman_dc_2.html
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canvid13
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posted on February 6, 2001 09:59:36 AM new
Wow, what do you have against Amazon reamond?
Sure they're goofy and have frigged up the works but the same can be said for many companies.
Do you really think they will just go poof?
At some point they will become a takeover target. If the stock drifts below $10.00 per share it should become very interesting.
What I see is that they are shifting the emphasis to their Advantage and Marketplace programs which is like treading water. They generate profits without having to outlay much capital.
I think they've been making some judgement errors. Maybe management is panicking? Jay Nelson used to be my account rep and he was amazing. Now they've transfered him away?
At some point though I'm sure the market will force Bezos to react in a positive manner by either bringing in a new management team or the company being merged or bought out.
Then again, maybe they'll smarten up and save themselves?
The fact is in my experiance they have bit the hand that feeds them, even if it's only a tiny portion of their food.
Maybe someone could buy their Auction division and run it the way it could be?
I still believe it could be the number one auction site without major tinkering.
Jamie
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reamond
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posted on February 6, 2001 10:25:21 AM new
What do facts have to do with having anything against a venue ?
I could harbor huge bias against any company - positive or negative, and it doesn't change the situation one wit.
Would you buy stock in a company because you thought the company had a nice looking CEO or the receptionist talked really nice and yet ignore the balance sheet?
The only enemies to business are lack of profits. How I may "feel" about a company and fifty-cents will get you a cup of cofee at some places, but has nothing to do with Amazon's financial and business model.
There are some people who believe we can "think" our way into or out of a recession, and simply ignore fundementals. President Ford thought WIN [Whip Inflation Now] buttons would cure inflation.
If you wish to approach business economics emotionally, your results will be quite emotional.
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canvid13
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posted on February 6, 2001 11:05:55 AM new
Hi Reamond,
You ever watch a stock floor? MSNBC? Emotion is a big part of the stock market. Try trading futures big fella.
As for attractive Ceo's and such, it very much is a factor for many corporations. Look at what Iacocca did for Chrysler?
Nixon and Kennedy election? And your Ford example is exactly the point. He was kinda doofusy and always falling down. He certainly didn't inspire any confidence?
These are all factors whether you or I like it or not.
Now for Amazon, my point was that most of your post while being valid seem to be slanted negatively as have other posts of yours.
Amazon has done many dumb-ass things to itself and to the auction program but they've done some good things too.
I know I love Amazon payments and I love the option to send my sellers extra invoices if they mess up or I want to offer them an upgrade in service. (wish this was offered for Marketplace!)
They still have the best platform to sell via auction on the net. They just don't like to let much traffic get to it!
Jamie
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reamond
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posted on February 6, 2001 03:27:02 PM new
A Futures trading floor has nothing to do with emotions, except to the untrained observer.
Iacoca's "good looks" saved Cheysler ?
Gerald Ford's clumsy meanderings caused or in any way effected inflation ?
Pleeaaseee !!!
Amazon took a viable business model and allowed the founder to stay in charge way too long. eBay's founder knew when he was in over his head and stepped down.
If Amazon is allowed to run the train too far off the tracks, even a takeover will lose its appeal.
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canvid13
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posted on February 6, 2001 03:55:46 PM new
Reamond: I won't beat it to death but futures is as emotional as it gets. What do you call a hunch?
Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
I do agree with your opinion about Amazon and Bezos. Some of the changes have been bizarre. And I know my weekly sell through rate dropped to 25% of what it was in the spring.
But surely you must have something good to say about Amazon? Otherwise why would you be posting here??
What did they do to you? You can tell the AW public?
Jamie
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enchanted
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posted on February 6, 2001 04:50:09 PM new
LOL Jamie! you are a riot. I love your sense of humor.
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reamond
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posted on February 6, 2001 05:29:33 PM new
My concern is from a purely competitive standpoint.
eBay must have a viable auction competitor or we will all be howling before too long.
BTW- I call a "hunch" in futures trading what a novice uses just before he files for bankruptcy.
[ edited by reamond on Feb 6, 2001 05:55 PM ]
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canvid13
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posted on February 6, 2001 07:49:35 PM new
Thanks Enchanted.
Reamond ol pal, it's a shame we can't invest in bankruptcy trustee bonds as their a lot of hunches being played on the Nasdaq.
Do you think you can help Amazon compete with Ebay by constantly posting slams here that undermine the occasional viewer??
Is this going to inspire folks to list on Amazon?
How many listings do you currently have with them? I know that I have 2000+ so I can have whining rights as I pay for them!
I don't mind whining, I just would prefer hearing some solutions and no, I don't work for Amazon. Well at least not in certain terms...(g)
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
Go and check out some of the co-op threads here on AW or check out our message board!
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reamond
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posted on February 6, 2001 10:44:25 PM new
How do facts become slams ? If I said the sky was blue, would you then say I was slaming the clouds ?
Speculation on NASDAQ is not playing hunches.A hunch is a premonition of a coming event. Investors buy based on past events, not premonitions. Thus far I have not met nor heard of an investor that uses premonitions.
Keep chanting "all is well", that's how an economic system works and reforms are commenced. In fact, everyone should chant "All is well at Amazon" at noon tomorrow, that will solve Amazon's problems. Cheerleaders do not win games, nor cause a business to be successful, other than for Ponsy schemes and pyramid scams.
How many listings you have is irrelevant.
The issue is that Amazon Auctions provided the only viable competition to eBay. Amazon destroyed that competition.
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 07:25:29 AM new
Reamond: Having any auction listings is relevant. If you only have 3 listings at your peak your experiance and therefore where you're coming from.
And no, stating facts is not a slam. Constantly only showing negative facts or facts that support your thesis is called propaganda.
I have no arguement with your comments.
Questions: Have you written to Amazon? Who have you discussed this with? Have you done anything besides post negative facts to try and get Amazon to work with you??
Amazon has many faults and has botched many things, especially customer support and the way they have treated us auction sellers of late.
However if you want them to be an alternative to ePAy you and all of us will have to work with them? So perhaps we can focus on the solution than just the blame?
Jamie
canvid13
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jbeier7154
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posted on February 7, 2001 08:06:11 AM new
Reamond......Nicely stated.
The fact is is Canvid Amazon DOES NOT want any suggestions,etc..., They simply DO NOT care and have taken every opportunity to display that. Truth is truth. It doesn't change.
Optimism is a wonderful thing and productive. In this case it is FUTILE.
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 08:38:54 AM new
Hey Whiny boys. "Canvid Amazon DOES NOT want any suggestions" Of course I want suggestions. I email Amazon all the time and because I signed a NDA they even give me answers back on occasion. Nothing uplifting mind you.
I feel the powers that be at Amazon at the moment are of a certain mindset. I'm sure if they're proven wrong they will be replaced.
I have no problem with calling a spade a spade but let's look at the whole picture.
If you have listings on Amazon please tell us how many? That's all I'm asking. I'm not in the shadows. I have over 2000 listings on Amazon and have a big stake in what happens.
You're entitled to your opinion and to post it. Let's look at it objectively is all that I'm asking. And if you have a current stake in Amazon improving I certainly would respect your opinions more.
Jamie
canvid13
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jbeier7154
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posted on February 7, 2001 10:30:43 AM new
Canvid......
I have about 1700 listings and have had since the beginning of Auctions. I WOULD HAVE HAD well over 2000 but Amazon has a bad habit of losing listings so I slowed my listing up greatly.
I have always suspected Amazon, with the financial chaos, would not be a great venue long-term. Fine. My web page is finished....Thank God. BUT.....The way Amazon has treated people is deplorable. Once, (IF) they get back on their feet & want to rebuild these parts of their business people will laugh them out of the auction business. They were so close to being the best. EVERY DAY they come up with something new to deter people from selling on the auction site. I called last night. Was having trouble getting through to a winning bidder. The email kept bouncing back. I was told on the phone they no longer contact winning bidders for ANY reason. I was quick to point out that a valid email address that works is a requirement for registration with Amazon. He said to email the request & my chances are 50/50. RIDICULOUS.
Keep looking ahead Canvid. I have had stores, etc... & have ridden many changes in business. I have been a full-time dealer for almost 15 years. Amazon is a leaky boat & they are doing nothing to stop the leak in auctions. Amazon does not care to hear from any of us anymore. It is a waste of time to contact them for almost anything. It is beyond belief the attitude they are projecting.
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 11:01:22 AM new
jbeier: I agree with 100%. When I first came to Amazon part of the reason was the fact that there was customer support.
It's so hard to build up a good name yet so easy to rip it down.
I have faced the same horrid support from them as you have and gone through the same frustrations.
Right now I see three alternatives.
1) go back to ePAY
2) Stick it out somehow on Amazon
3) Help create an online auction co-op
Frankly, I'd prefer that Amazon woke up.
Some of the improvements that could be made would cost them nothing. It cost's nothing to treat people with respect. Jay Nelson was the Amazon rep who brought me over to Amazon. He couldn't do much when I had a problem but was terrific with what he could help with and had a great way of saying no.
If more Amazon folks were like him we all might feel better.
Like it or not Amazon simply decided that there was more money in charging 15% for Marketplace.
I wish they would've discussed this with some of us auction folks. I know I'd rather have paid a higher commission to have the same situation on Amazon but they never gave us an option.
My point to reamond was simply that he only posts bad news. I wanted to know where he's coming from. You and I have every right to post the truth and what we feel. We've earned it through our suffering on Amazon.
And I'd rather stay and suffer here on Amazon than suffer worse on ePAY.
So, let's see if somehow we can reason and communicate with Amazon to better our lot.
I know chances are slim but they are better than the alternative of going to another site.
The long term alternative is to help build a co-op. Check out some of the other threads we have on AW or email for our message board.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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reamond
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posted on February 7, 2001 12:32:34 PM new
Well Canvid, what's the "good" news to post about Amazon - that it was open today ?
There has been no good news for shareholders, none for employees [except more available spaces in the parking lot], none for us sellers. I think the customer will get the bad news next.
What it seems you want to do is create a vapor venue, like vapor ware, it is all concept and no substance.
As far as suggestions go to Amazon, I suggest a 99% decrease in auction sales should have spoken louder than anything anyone might say.
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jbeier7154
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posted on February 7, 2001 12:52:21 PM new
Hi Jamie.....
I figure it will probably be best to just ride it out. If you have that many listings....Why Not? I do have the strongest feeling that Auctions will be no more very soon. The behavior pattern at Amazon and the DISGUSTING NEGLECT they have shown for the people behind them could produce "Lord Knows What" in the coming weeks & months.
I have seen a lot of things in business. Amazon is indeed UNIQUE in many ways as they advertise....
Best of Luck Jamie....We are all going to need it!
Jim
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 02:15:11 PM new
Same to you Jim and I think you're right. The best thing we can all do is ride this out until an alternative appears or we have no choice.
I don't think things can keep going the way they are at Amazon without change coming soon one way or the other.
Reamond: I'm not a cheerleader or a vapor venue creator. What I'm trying to be is practical. Perhaps you should try?
I don't believe in pointing out all the negative in something without offering some sort of solution. From your posts all I see are negative facts pointed out. So what? Spelling out the obvious is not going to help anyone? Do you really think you're going to educate whoever's running Amazon auctions? I'm sure they know the condition of things. I know the odds are slim but it costs nothing to send them emails of suggestions.
I still believe the long term future is a sellers online auction co-op that I would model very much like Amazon auctions. Perhaps some of you will come to that conclusion now rather than later when you really need a place to park your widgets!
Jamie
canvid13
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suz23
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posted on February 7, 2001 03:04:59 PM new
I think the hardest part about Amazon is that it would take so very little to again make this auction site the best! and after having had incrediable sales and great customers it is very hard to leave this site or even to switch to marketplace but it does get discouraging to list and not sell! and after all it comes down : auctions for me are lots of fun but it is way more fun to list and get some bids! I think auctions are the very last thing on amazon's agenda and they are trying to squeeze the last nickel out of them by having sellers pay to feature and all sellers must use one click ( money makers to amazon and really how much does it benefit sellers) but the worst is no auction tab ie no new customers etc. However, it has been fun to do auctions here but the fun times are running out . Good luck to you and I will continue to probably do someting on amazon but not like I used to . Suzanne ( suz23 only here!)
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pcalton
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posted on February 7, 2001 03:09:40 PM new
Where do we go to get more information on the coop spoken of here.
I am pragmatic in my approach to how Amazon is going. And, see a need for changes.
I still have about 1,500 to 2,000 listing on Amazon and plan on keeping that many until the fat lady sings.
But, I have spread other listings out on other sites in attempted to get established elsewhere.
I have been on Amazon since day one and have worked hard to build and maintain about 6,500 transaction feedbacks. But, now I worry that Amazon will further shift away from auctions and make my ratings mute.
I have enjoyed the best of days and endured the worse days on the site.
I have liked many of the advances but feel sad that many of the great features go to waste on a site that makes it difficult for auction bidders find listings.
Sellers like myself need a voice that will be heard, if not by Amazon, by some other site who will give us the traffic we need.
In a New York minute, I would gladly trade all the Amazon advances for the good old days on Amazon.
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 05:17:46 PM new
I agree with you Perry. It's about stability and none of the big three sites is even making statements that make it easy to try and build a stable business.
Check out our co-op movement. Email for the url and details.
Thanks,
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
514-270-7478
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reamond
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posted on February 7, 2001 06:00:08 PM new
I don't post here to "educate" anyone at Amazon - they are beyond that.
I post here to warn and communicate to present and potential sellers about what is going on at Amazon.
If you want the "company La La line", Amazon dishes enough to drown in.
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canvid13
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posted on February 7, 2001 07:01:07 PM new
Reamond: I certainly am not a company line person. The fact is that I asked you to tell us how many auctions you have. What's your feeback rating? For me this counts in taking you seriously?
I'm curious why you are so intent on slagging Amazon all the time?
Jamie
canvid13
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