safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 06:11:01 AM
I just sold 4 very common plates. The purchaser returned them ,wants a full refund saying they were not as advertised...ok I make mistakes. BUT, I open them up and they are NOT the plates I sold her. The ones she returned were in horrible condition. Mine were nearly new condition. How do I handle this one?? Send a refund anyway, or call her on it?
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captainkirk
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posted on September 6, 2000 06:29:35 AM
send her a refund? no way. She's already gotten what she bid and paid for. If you are 100% certain she is trying to scam you, let her know you will pursue mail fraud with the postal service. Tell her you have pictures of the items as they were packed, and that you videotape your whole process. heck, for that matter, tell her your brother-in-law is the head of the state cops, and he's coming over to take a statement (just kidding on that one...unless its true in your case by any chance?).
Seriously, as long as you are certain she got what she paid for, just politely email her and tell her that obviously she is confused, that she got what she paid for, and if she wants her junk returned, you'd be happy to do so if she will send you postage. Be QUITE positive that you sent her EXACTLY what you advertised. Let her make the next move. Then go on the offensive if she pursues a scam.
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mzalez
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posted on September 6, 2000 06:32:19 AM
Are you positive? If you are sure she is trying to scam you, definately don't give a refund. I would email the buyer back explaining the plates aren't the same ones, etc., and no refund is due. Be polite and professional, don't let your emotions go out of control.
If the buyer doesn't drop it at that point, contact eBay for help and start looking into mail fraud. I would contact eBay anyway to let them know what this person is up to.
Sorry you had to have this happen to you. You'll probably get a neg out of it, but stick to your principles. People like this buyer have no business on eBay.
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safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 07:09:09 AM
I'm positive they are not my plates.Out of 4 excellent condition plates I got back 2 that were very badly scratched up and one with a long crack. I wouldn't even attempt to sell anything in such poor condition. I checked buyers history, she buys a lot of these dishes. I just can't prove that they are not the ones I sent.Should I refund 1/4 of the price? I got back 1 good plate.
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marvey
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posted on September 6, 2000 07:15:21 AM
Do not refund anything! If she pursues the matter reply that you will refund whey you receive your EXACT merchandise back! If you give her a refund you will only be reinforcing her to keep doing this again and again.
Please sellers adivse on how you protect yourself from having this done to you???
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pickersangel
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posted on September 6, 2000 07:19:22 AM
I suppose that, if she buys a lot of these dishes, there IS the possibility that she has you confused with another seller. You could suggest that to her, and if she's willing to forgo the refund and reimburse you to return the plates to her, that's how I'd handle it. Otherwise, I wouldn't refund anything. If you do, you're only rewarding her dishonesty. Figure that the one saleable plate you received is your reimbursement for dealing with this cr&@ and the negative you'll probably receive for standing up for yourself. List and sell it, and send her a "don't bid on any more of my auctions" email. Be sure to cc: [email protected] and report her if she does bid.
The humorous part of this whole thing is that the buyer probably had 3 plates that she needed to replace, but she needed to return 4....what to do???? That one good plate probably IS one of the ones you sent. The net result is that, instead of ending up with 3 good plates and all her money (plus return shipping??), she's ended up paying her bid price plus double shipping for 3 good plates. Don'tcha just love it when karma works so quickly??? 
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captainkirk
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posted on September 6, 2000 08:09:43 AM
Don't refund 1/4, since that sort of admits she sent something back that is yours (at least partially). She either returns your entire shipment for an entire refund (if you are willing to do that), or nothing.
There apparently are "invisible" marking pens that sellers have used to mark such items, to prove whether they were theirs or not. I presume the "invisible ink" shows up under ultraviolet light or something. Perhaps one of the sellers who uses this method can comment.
If you took photos of the plates originally, and can take a scan/digital picture of what she sent back, and can email her both pictures to make the point that she returned the wrong item, that would be a powerful argument on your behalf.
PS - see the current thread on "how to protect yourself against merchandise switchers".
[ edited by captainkirk on Sep 6, 2000 08:13 AM ]
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njrazd
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posted on September 6, 2000 08:43:13 AM
e-mail the Buyer and tell her the plates she returned did not have your marking on them and would she like insurance when you return them to her.
It is better to be out a small amount of postage than all the money. Be courteous but firm.
Good Luck! This kind of scam really bugs me.
*****************************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
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safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 08:47:53 AM
I am so nervous. She's emailing me and I have to come up with an answer. I can't prove anything. I stupidly deleted the pics after I sent them...I guess it's a good idea to keep a photo record of all sales?
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RB
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posted on September 6, 2000 08:54:48 AM
"I can't prove anything. I stupidly deleted the pics after I sent them..."
Yes, but she doesn't need to know that. While I don't always agree with 'stretching the truth', IMHO you are the subject of a scam. I would follow the advice submitted here and tell her that your plates were inventoried by your police department for insurance purposes, and the invisible markings put on them do not show up under UV light on the plates she returned.
If you don't feel comfortable doing that, pickersangel's advice is good - 'suggest' to her that she may have made a mistake and sent you the wrong plates back.
Play the game, but DO NOT offer ANY refund at this point.
Good luck 
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nowwhat
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posted on September 6, 2000 08:55:22 AM
safryevt ~ Don't be nervous. Just put the ball back in her court. Tell her she must have made a mistake and returned the wrong dishes. Tell her that there is no way you would ever sell dishes in this condition and that she should look for the dishes you did send her. If you don't feel comfortable saying anything about pictures or having marked the dishes don't mention that right now and see what she says. Just make sure you are firm about the fact that she made a mistake. If she persists then I would try the approaches mentioned by others. Don't let her intimidate you!
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kerryann
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posted on September 6, 2000 09:08:14 AM
There is no reason to be nervous! If you did not receive the same plates back that you sent in the first place, this buyer, unless in legitimate error, is trying to steal from you.
I support others' suggestions that you tell this buyer that in addition to the obvious differences in your plates and the ones you received, your marking does not show up which proves they are not the plates you sent. Return them collect or wait for her to mail you postage for the return.
This type of scam on ebay bothers me the most. I just can't believe the gall that people have.
Not Kerryann on eBay
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rxo120
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posted on September 6, 2000 09:13:01 AM
The only thing that I can see going wrong with telling her that you marked the plates, is that maybe your customer has a black light and chekced this out already. You did mention that she has bought a lot of these items in the past, and she just may have that light. Stick to the picture theory and tell her that these are not the same ones according to the picture.
Is there any way that you could recover the pictures, in case she asks for a copy of the pictures in the listing?
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reston_ray
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posted on September 6, 2000 09:25:20 AM
While I fully agree with the opinions expressed in the above post, I would suggest that referring to no longer available pictures or non existing invisable marks has risks.
If push comes to shove your creditability will be damaged if you can not provide proof of either or both.
My pic's are in a image file and on a web site. Are either still available? Where did you get the plates? Can a third party support your claims? Risking the whole truth by inserting even a small falsehood is something I reserve for when all else fails.
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safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 10:09:41 AM
Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it.I suppose the best thing is to email her and tell her they are not my plates. Wait to see how she answers that.I will probably get negged because of all this ,but I really hate being bullied. In fact in one email she did mention negative feedback, a subtle threat.
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eventer
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posted on September 6, 2000 10:42:06 AM
Welll, consider emailing her w/the following,
"Many pottery sellers on ebay use an invisible mark on their item that carries their initials to insure the item is theirs. This mark is ONLY visible when viewed under a black light.
I have reviewed the plates you returned & am cerain these are not my plates. Since I noticed you purchase a LOT of similar items on ebay, perhaps you mistook mine for someone else's."
You aren't lying...a lot of sellers DO mark their plates.
If she is trying to pull one over, she might feel nervous enough that she'll use the built in excuse of possibly having made a mistake to back away from this.
If she doesn't back off, give her the refund & mark your items in the future. Let it serve as a lesson learned.
If this might become a problem...I would consider adding a line in your refund policy that states that "you will refund once you have verified that your items (which are marked with invisible to the naked eye marks) are yours". Hopefully, that will make any would be fast change artists think twice.
Good luck!
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yuper592
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posted on September 6, 2000 11:30:38 AM
Your pictures may not be lost and gone forever. When I upload my pics from my digital camera, I save them on disc. However, they are also automatically saved on my hard drive in another folder. Unless you went in and deleted them from your photo folder, they should still be there and you can retrieve them.
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breezeb
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posted on September 6, 2000 12:43:35 PM
I ordered a bowl from a china replacements company a while back to replace a broken piece in my mothers Rosenthal china set. The company I ordered from placed a stamp of their logo on the back of the bowl, and stated that IF I wanted to return the bowl it needed to be returned WITH the stamped marking still in place. The stamped marking came right off when the dish was washed.
To protect yourself I think any unique stamp would work, but not sure if they used a special ink.
If you are selling China it may be a good idea to state in your auctions that you mark your merchandise and all returns must be returned with the original markings - this would hopefully deter those lowly beings trying to do the swithcheroo from bidding on your auctions in the first place.
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nowwhat
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:04:56 PM
I like the stamp idea breezeb. Getting one with your name on it should be unique enough.
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medic39
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:10:03 PM
Do not refund a dime! Email the buyer back and tell her that the items returned were not those shipped! Offer to wait until the items you shipped are returned, or you will pursue the situation with eBay. Secondly, look on eBay for invisible marking pens and black lights. I have started marking all of my items with this system and it is invisible and virtually invisible! Even on paper and linen goods.
David White
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safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:11:02 PM
I'm not really a china dealer.Glass is too breakable for me,I'm clumsy. These dishes were some that I've had for 30 years. They were very seldom used,and given to me as a gift.So they were in good condition. The ones returned I never would even use myself. They are dumpster material.
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wordgirl
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:29:15 PM
Regarding the deleted pictures.....you might also want to check your recycle bin (there's an icon on your desktop) for a copy. It's hard to outright kill a file in just one step, so if you simply deleted it once, it's probably still there. Good luck!
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creativethings
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:37:44 PM
wordgirl is correct!! The recycle bin has saved my life many times. I also used to delete my pics off auctionwatch once the auction ended. But now, I wait until the bidder has received the item and left good feedback. Twice I deleted the pics right after the auction ended, only to have to rescan them (because my son dumped the recycle bin) again to relist.
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safryevt
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posted on September 6, 2000 01:44:07 PM
I just went and looked everywhere you all mention. The pictures are deleted. I didn't take a picture of each individual plate. They were all the same and there were no bad spots to point out in them. Maybe thats why I was a good candidate. I wasn't cautious enough. I really never expected this to happen!
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