lovebeingmom
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:10:54 PM
On Aug 17th I received a notice from PayPal saying "You have cash". Today I got a notice that my buyer had canceled the payment. When I called PayPal about it they said ..."When a buyer sends payment and accidently makes a typo in the email address we send out an email to the account that is most near that address telling them they have money. It is up to them to check their account and make sure that it is there. In this case your buyer made a mistake and sent it to a wrong address and can take it back because it was unclaime. You must contact your bidder and get them to resend the money to the correct address."
THe problem with this is that now my buyer is NARUed. I am out the merchandise and the money and PayPal doesn't care. They girl that I spoke to said that they are aware of this problem but haven't fixed it yet.
I am outraged that Paypal knew that there was a problem with their systema and didn't do anything to fix it. Does anyone have any ideas about what I can do? I did send the buyer email but I don't have her phone number. Now that she is NARUed I can't even get that. I don't have her address because she had me send the package to her sister as a gift.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...
Barbi
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:20:35 PM
Did you get VERIFIED by Paypal, as suggested?
Keep writing to the bidder, since you have her email addy. Did you not keep a shipping address for her sister?
Have you contacted Damon? [email protected]
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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lovebeingmom
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:26:46 PM
I am in the process of getting verified (waiting for their deposits) but weather or not I am verified probably doesn't matter. They send out emails saying that you have cash when you really don't. I know NOW that I need to go to the site on each and every transaction and verify that the money is there but it is such a bad system! If they say they have sent you money you should have the money!
I have been checking the full headers of all the emails to protect myself from fraud from a dishonest bidder recycling a cut and paste form. I just didn't realize I needed to protect myself from paypal.
I do have the sister's addy. I was told that damon was no longer at paypal.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:41:23 PM
I would not drive a car without Insurance...
And why did you wait nearly one month to check on the money? You mention August 17...Today is September 11...
Paypal has tried very hard to impress upon it's users the importance of being verified...
Hope it gets resolved for you.
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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jrscharton
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:43:48 PM
I was told that damon was no longer at paypal.
Wha...?! Say it ain't so!
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lovebeingmom
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posted on September 11, 2000 12:52:55 PM
Being verified would not have changed this situation. It has nothing to do with what happened.
As far as driving a car without insurance...I wouldn't either. I did check the header on the email to make sure that it was from paypal instead of a cut and paste.
I didn't double check my account because I didn't realize that this problem existed. I believe that if my brick and morter bank made a mistake like this they would of been more interested in trying to help me resolve it.
I was hoping for some constructive ideas of what to do to resolve this problem.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:02:24 PM
Hi,
I am still with the company and I am not sure where that came from.
It sounds like the person had an incorrect email address or typo if it was sent legitimately. If it was a cut and paste, please forward the information to me so I can have this looked at.
This underscores the importance of always checking your account history.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:07:21 PM
Damon.... You're still here...The Voice Of Reason....
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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tegan
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:31:18 PM
I don't know how your supposed to di it but I
always go to the paypal sight and have the money trqansfered to my bank and then I ship the item.
I have only been doing this about three weeks but it is working out fine.
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lovebeingmom
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:34:59 PM
Hi Damon!
Thanks for your response.
Although this does underscore the importance of checking your account I still don't have an answer as to why PayPal has done nothing to fix this problem when they knew it existed.
If you send out a letter saying I have cash...I need to be able to believe you. It goes to a credibility issue. If you had sent out a letter saying that someone had tried to pay me but the email addy isn't an exact match and the money was still pending, I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.
As far as checking up on the payments. My brick and mortar bank sends out a statement that I reconcile once a month. If there is a problem they are more than willing to sit down with me to find the discrepancy. If it is a mistake I made...fine. If it is a mistake they made they make an effort to correct the mistake.
Since x.com is part of a real bank (they did advertise that when they first came out) and by extension paypal because they are a part of x.com, is it wrong to think that normal banking practices would be out of line.
Believe me, I will now check each and every one of the transactions that I have. I am just HUGELY dissapointed that paypal had this problem, knew about it and did nothing to solve the problem, sent out emails that were totaly misleading, and is making no effort to try to help me out with this situation.
When I posted a question about this on the eBay Q&A board I got 8 responses from lurkers that have had this same thing happen to them and a whole round of discussion from the regulars on this topic. There is also another thread on this board just a few post down that is discussing the same topic. It seems it's not just my problem but rather something that is happening to a lot of people.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:35:32 PM
tegan..That seems to work best for me also
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 11, 2000 01:50:00 PM
Hi lovebeingmom,
Thank you for the response.
To clarify a little, emails are only a notification mechanism. As with any email, they can be copied and it is why we want people to always check their accounts.
All transactions actually occur at the account level. Emails are used to advise that a payment has been sent to an address, but ISP/email providers can scrub errors and direct (as it sounds like it happened in your case).
In many cases, it is the result of a typo, something we are working on correcting for easy items (period at the end of an email).
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lotsafuzz
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posted on September 11, 2000 04:10:18 PM
Damon: Maybe you can answer this: The last two payment notifications I received though paypal have looked very diffrent than what they had in the past.
For example: Instead of a heading: "So-and-so has just sent you $XX.XX with PayPal" They now say whatever the person typed in.
Also, the form of the emails are different. So much so that I double checked my account to make sure the money was there before I shipped (after this thread I requested payment right away instead of waiting for the money to reach a certian value).
So, what's the deal?
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 11, 2000 05:21:18 PM
Hi lotsafuzz,
The email header should always contain paypal. It will also state that the party has sent you xx.xx. If these items do not appear, please check your history (which I would recommending doing for all transactions because emails are notifications only).
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lotsafuzz
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posted on September 11, 2000 05:35:31 PM
Damon, Can I forward these emails to you? I have checked my account and know the money is in there....but now Im starting to wonder about these emails.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 11, 2000 05:37:30 PM
Hi lotsafuzz,
You can certainly forward the emails, but since the money is in the account this would be a good thing.
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tuition44years
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posted on September 11, 2000 10:36:01 PM
I have never 'claimed' a payment. I get an email, I look at my account, the money is there. Am I missing something? How/why do you 'claim' a payment? Thanks!
_____
I have a memory like a steel trap .. unfortunately it's rusted shut!
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 11, 2000 10:50:04 PM
Hi tuition44years,
Having the money appear in your account is claimed. The only other designation (unclaimed)is when a user sends money to a non-registered email. Provided the person directs it to a registered email address, all payments are claimed immediately.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 12, 2000 05:24:29 AM
Damon:
This problem has been rehashed over and over. PayPal could fix this problem, or at least minimize it with a few simple coding changes.
This may seem like only an irritation, but in some cases it causes some VERY SERIOUS problems. If a user accidentally sends payment to the wrong recipient, PayPal takes a "hands-off" position and says sender and recipient will have to work it out. I can understand PayPal's logic for this. But with a few simple changes to the website, many of these problems can be avoided before they occur.
A very simple, yet IMO effective change would be to boldly list the recipient's NAME (or business name) along with the email address on the verification page. It's easy to confuse an email address when you mean to send money to [email protected] but instead enter [email protected]. If the recipent's name is listed along with the email address on the verification screen, it is much easier to catch a mistake (although not foolproof). And the problem with the floating period at the end of the email address is simply unbelievable. This should have been fixed long ago.
IMO PayPal should make fixing the email problems a top priority. Apparently, this is not the case.
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msgodrocks
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posted on September 12, 2000 05:38:29 AM
You have a brick and mortar bank that actually owns UP TO MISTAKES??? Wow!!! Tell me where and I am moving there.......
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lovebeingmom
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posted on September 12, 2000 06:11:44 AM
When I posted this original message, I had no idea that this was a problem experienced by other people.
What abingdoncomputers said..."This problem has been rehashed over and over. " is just shocking to me. This problem has existed long enough to have been the topic of discussion here for a while and PayPal has done nothing about it? I am no computer wizzard but it doesn't seem that it would be that hard to fix!
Not taking responsibility for you actions and demanding that others police your actions to keep from having problems so that you don't have to change is a common characteristic of the middle school children that I teach. It is our goal to help them overcome this problem as they grow up and mature. This ongoing problem with Paypal makes me wonder just how old the directors of PayPal are. Their behavior speaks volumes. Or is it an ethics issue? They just don't want to shoulder the cost of fixing the problem and making restitution to the people that they have harmed. It really is more cost effective to just tell customers to solve the problem with a work around and blow off the harmed customers by telling them it was their fault. BUT...what will the cost be in customer loyalty? No amount of PR can undo the damage that word of mouth can do. Have they factored that into their bean counting?
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uaru
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posted on September 12, 2000 06:46:46 AM
"Not taking responsibility for you actions and demanding that others police your actions to keep from having problems so that you don't have to change is a common characteristic of the middle school children that I teach."
I agree completely people should take responsibility for their actions. It would seem that a buyer could manage to put in the email address, and payment amount and hit continue, confirm the action that's going to be executed and click 'send'. Why that is beyond the abilities of some I can't figure.
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yisgood
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posted on September 12, 2000 07:45:08 AM
I still think that Paypal should borrow a feature from their competitors and have a 'claim' link. Ecount, achex, payplace and paydirect do this. When you get the notice that payment has been made, there is a button that says 'click here to claim payment.' Along with a notice that says 'Do NOT ship merchandise until payment has been claimed. Payment can be cancelled until it is claimed.' This gives the buyer a chance to cancel a payment made in error (I think we all know about that one) and it gives the seller a chance to reject a payment if he/she doesnt want to deal with that buyer. In any case, it forces the seller to claim that payment and will reduce complaints of sellers who shipped upon receiving a forged notice or a notice to the wrong email ID.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 12, 2000 10:26:59 AM
Hi lovebeingmom,
The only issue that we can potentially correct within the software is a floating period. All other items are the result of a customer typo or inputting an incorrect domain name, something that we cannot control.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 12, 2000 11:57:47 AM
Damon:
Hi lovebeingmom,
The only issue that we can potentially correct within the software is a floating period. All other items are the result of a customer typo or inputting an incorrect domain name, something that we cannot control.
Are you saying that PayPal cannot put the recipient's name along with the email address on the Send Money verification screen? If not, why not? It can't be a security issue because the name will show up in the history for both the sender and the recipient anyway (after the transaction is completed). And we all know that it isn't a technical issue. Just a simple programming change.
I don't understand your answer on this one. Please help...
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 12, 2000 12:07:15 PM
HI abingdoncomputers,
The only issue that we can potentially correct within the software is a floating period. All other items are the result of a customer typo or inputting an incorrect domain name, something that we cannot control.
Are you saying that PayPal cannot put the recipient's name along with the email address on the Send Money verification screen? (the end user can put in the last name of the recipient on the send money screen and the email address. Even so, this would not register anything if the customer did a typo in the email address or if the email address was not registered. If I send money to a registered user and there are no typos, the name does show up).
If not, why not? It can't be a security issue because the name will show up in the history for both the sender and the recipient anyway (after the transaction is completed). And we all know that it isn't a technical issue. Just a simple programming change.
I don't understand your answer on this one. Please help...
The only thing that we could have the software correct is the floating period. We cannot correct user's inputting the wrong information.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 12, 2000 12:21:00 PM
Damon:
Perhaps I'm not being clear on my recommendation. If PayPal includes the name of the user whose PayPal account is about to be credited (along with the email address) on the verification screen, if the sender HAS made a mistake, chances are very good that (s)he will catch the mistake BEFORE sending the money into the wrong account.
For example, let's say that I wish to send money to James Smith, email acount [email protected]. Instead, I mistakenly enter [email protected]. The verification screen could say:
You are about to send $100 to: John Smith ([email protected]). Click Send Money to verify and complete the transaction. If John Smith is NOT the intended recipient, click cancel and verify the recipient's correct email address.
The sender might read this and say "Wait a minute, I'm sending to James Smith, not John!"
I ask again, why can't PayPal institute this feature (or something similar) on the Send Money verification screen? Don't you think this would help prevent at least SOME mistakes in sending money to the wrong account? Seem to me that it would be better to try to prevent as many problems as possible BEFORE they happen. Less hassle for PayPal. Less trouble for the users.
Or is it easier (and cheaper) just to put the onus for ALL mistakes on the users?
True, users need to be careful. But we are all human and we do make mistakes from time to time. Little things like this can make for happy customers. And happy customers, one would think, are very good for PayPal.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 12, 2000 12:25:44 PM
I agree completely people should take responsibility for their actions. It would seem that a buyer could manage to put in the email address, and payment amount and hit continue, confirm the action that's going to be executed and click 'send'. Why that is beyond the abilities of some I can't figure.
Are you implying that PayPal should not make changes that would help prevent some mistakes, and that if someone does make a mistake that they just chalk it up to a learning experience? I don't think so. I think it would be in PayPal's best interest, as well as the user's, to try to prevent as many mistakes as possible with using the sevice. Especially when the changes would be so easy to implement.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 12, 2000 12:36:05 PM
Hi abingdoncomputers,
This is the payment screen without any information input.
Recipient's Email
Batch Pay
-- OR -- Select a recipient
Amount ($) Spending limit
$1,665.77
Raise limit
For an Auction
Recipient's last name*
(Please leave blank if sending to a Business)
If I input the amount before sending the payment to the email address(going to the second screen), this is what I get:
[email protected]
Recipient Status
Unverified Personal Account: Member Info
Amount
$0.01
Email Subject*
I do see the concern about having the name match and I will pass the suggestion along(to have the name appear when sending payment would only work with a registered email address).
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uaru
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posted on September 12, 2000 12:53:25 PM
Are you implying that PayPal should not make changes that would help prevent some mistakes
Nope, I'm implying that some people need to take responsibility for their actions. Short of having probes that hook up to the brain there are going be errors. PayPal can't read the person's mind, there are no spell checkers for email addresses, and the buyer does have to enter the correct ammount. Too many people are 'click happy' and they don't take the time to read the instructions and warnings that are already in place.
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