posted on September 13, 2000 05:57:09 PM
In the aftermath of this latest "use and abuse" I sat asking myself
"Why do companies keep doing this to us?"
The "us" being the online auction users and the companies being eBay, PayPal etc.
The answer was suddenly clear.
BECAUSE THEY CAN.
Whatever responsibility they may have to act appropriately it is our responsibility, and ours alone, to protect our own interests.
And we have failed to do that.
They can, so they do.
We wimper, howl and walk around with the word "SUCKER" on our forehead.
Do we have an effective form of independent communications among users? NO.
Do we have an accessible history of company promises, pledges, actions and guarantees? No.
Do we have an information and tutorial site for possible recourse? (government offices, local, state and national plus non-profits and media sources for example) NO.
Maybe John McCain should ask the president of x.com to Washington after he finishes with Firestone/Ford. And be sure he visits with the banking committees and the Federal Reserve and the SEC.
But it won't be done unless we ask and we aren't asking.
We don't ask and nothing happens and nothing changes and then we get used again.
These things happen because we let them happen.
And they will continue until we stop it from happening.
It's my fault and your fault and the guy sitting between us fault.
What are we going to do about it?
Or is it time to shut up, put my tail between my legs, cover the word "SUCKER" on my forehead and slink off into the corner and hope it doesn't get much worse?
No disrespect to OAUA, Tag Lines, MAM, AW and OTWA but a pitiful few are reached.
This might just be the fruition of the prophecy 'a SUCKER signs up every minute".
posted on September 13, 2000 06:14:34 PM
Apparently, all we are going to do about it is whiiiiiiinnnnnne here on the AW Boards. At least that seems to be the most popular pass-time around here these days.
But I won't get started again about that, I promise. You have a much nicer way of bringing up issues like these!
posted on September 13, 2000 06:33:30 PM
I'm stripping the PayPal logo from my auction template. And as soon as the current run of auctions is complete and buyers who choose to use PayPal have done so, I'm emptying my account and closing it.
posted on September 13, 2000 06:38:16 PM
I am in the process of writing a LARGE number of serious emails to [email protected]
One of my suggestions is rather elaborate, but I will only briefly describe it here.
I want eBay to seriously consider setting up a SELLERS OMBUDSMEN BOARD, which can advocate upon the behave of microbusinesses.
I want this board staffed by full-time eBay sellers who are VERIFIED by eBay, who have signed NON-DISCLOSURE agreements with eBay, and with whom eBay can seriously discuss all manner of issues and ideas.
eBay has been receiving ideas and suggestions which MUST be examined also from the viewpoint of the micro-sellers who comprise the heart & soul, the very lifeblood of eBay, BEFORE eBay acts on said ideas and suggestions, which sometimes are deliterious to microbusinesses.
I urge everybody who has ANY concerns about eBay, to send any ideas and suggestions about their concerns to [email protected]
posted on September 13, 2000 06:43:52 PM
suckers is a great word which is exactly what I was when I joined the "great Ebay boycott " last year the only person that got hurt was me when my sales went south ( deep deep south )
Not only will we not Boycott Paypal, but will end up dropping their "competition" the buyers do not - will not use them includng us
this may hurt some of your feelings ( not ), but if you do not accept my payment method then we will just pass on your auctions, there is a kazillion auctions going without bids selling exactly the same thing as you who will accept my payment choice and sellers if you think that i am in the minority on this as a BUYER you might be in for big surprise. There is close to 3 million registared users with Paypal, and I would guess that 60,000 are sellers ??? 70,000???, that means the rest are buyers yeah, like I am going tell nearly 3 million buyers so long
Please note this is not aimed at no one it is just my thoughts
running to the bank to get you a money order days are over with, as you more than likely than not, do not accept credit cards, if you did you would be yelling louder the Credit card "rules" seem to change on a daily basis I either accept that as part of my business or dont offer to take all 4 major credit cards just checks and money orders
Lord I wish I could drop my credit card company and do only Paypal but it will never happen not because of me but because of the buyers
posted on September 13, 2000 06:45:38 PM
In my opinion anyone who continues to do business with PayPal is part of the problem not the solution. There are lots of things you really can't do anything about but this not one of them!
[ edited by nowwhat on Sep 13, 2000 06:46 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 06:46:26 PM
I guess I don't feel so vindictive about all this, because I never believed them in the first place. Cmon people, PayPal never had a realistic business plan to begin with. Wise up, and don't loose any sleep over it.
You get what you pay for = pay nothing, get nothing.
posted on September 13, 2000 06:57:22 PM
Sellers pushed and pushed and pushed until even the most resistant buyer (me) signed up -- against all common sense, so that I could buy from you. Now what! I was right to beware all along! At least I didn't sign up as a seller. (It will be free to buyers until the next promise is broken.)
JMHO,
Valerie (getting used to being stepped on)
[ edited by valeriet on Sep 13, 2000 07:18 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 07:00:11 PM
Those of you who had a chance to watch Dateline about the 3 net entrepreneurs and how huge money ruins the original idea. It's the banking and credit card industry, oh well until the next great idea is poluted with money.
posted on September 13, 2000 07:00:29 PM
"In my opinion anyone who continues to do business with PayPal is part of the problem not the solution. There are lots of things you really can't do anything about but this not one of them! "
posted on September 13, 2000 07:14:45 PM
Glenda: IMO, that particular form is so impersonal, that I'd never advise anyone to go and use it, as see, I really want people to write to people at eBay, and the email addie WORKS, and maybe the form does, too, but geesh, until AI is much farther advanced, I don't think it's wise to make it onerous to get personal suggestions from one's customers... the form, in a word, looks & feeeeeeeels absolutely ROBOTIC to me....
posted on September 13, 2000 07:42:42 PM
Any buyer that passes up my auctions because I don't take online payment is cutting off his nose to spite his face.
I've been selling on eBay for 3 1/2 years and have perfect feedback. If that's not enough for you, then go ahead and buy from the 3 FB seller who takes Paypal.
posted on September 13, 2000 07:53:09 PM
Sorry folks, I don't buy the need for a bunch of folks to represent me to eBay et al.
Why?
Because they can't, don't, or won't represent me. I've had a very special inside track as to how these things go. At first, everything will be upbeat. Then, they get down to business...sort of...then they get political...and bought off, marginalized or booted.
How many times in the last year did you get polled, or questionaired or the like by someone regarding anything important? I'm not talking customer service stuff here. Zero is about right.
People in power don't give a rodent's posterior about your needs. To paraphrase the Great Prevaricator, those in power say "I feel you're a pain."
The only one who can and should care is you. I only know that my bidders (my business) are the reason I have decided to stay with PayPal. Nobody in power cares whether I stay in business or not.
posted on September 13, 2000 08:20:06 PM
it is not your feedback that concerns me, it is the time and effort that I need to go get you a money order or charge a credit card when I already have funds in my Paypal account So I will take you up on your offer and pass you by, would I rather buy from you?? you bet but you are not giving me that option
by the way you and I were both a + 3 at one time
didnt seem to stop folks from buying didnt make any one of us less a person
this is my choice as a buyer if I dont like your terms then I cant get mad at you, those are your choices, and I have mine
I suppose there has to be someone to take up for Paypal on this. Go ahead, doesn't matter.
A few weeks ago I was thinking how important Paypal was because 30 to 40% of my buyers liked to use it. Now I'm thinking it's not a big deal and I can certainly live without it. So can the buyers if they wish to.
Most buyers still pay by check or money order anyway.
posted on September 13, 2000 09:01:25 PM
" So can the buyers if they wish to. "
the problem is as buyers - we do not wish to, are we spoiled probably, but I am not going back to the past where it takes me 15 minutes to go to the bank, stand in line 10 minutes just to get a seller a money order
never again as mentioned by us before, if you dont accept my funds in the manor that I want to pay you only hurt yourself you sure as heck aint gonna hurt me as we will just buy it from your competitors whose kazillion auctions are not selling right now anyway and you can bet your bottom dollar that as buyes we are not the only ones that feel this way it is a convience issue my convience not yours my money not yours
posted on September 13, 2000 09:04:40 PM
As I sit here tonight, I'm just as confused as I was this morning when I logged on to eBay Outlook and heard "THE NEWS". I don't know what I am going to do yet. I've been taking Pay Pal for my "NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH TO BE CONSIDERED A BUSINESS" auctions. I use my account to pay for auctions I bid on as well. I've also used it to send money to my mom for various reasons. Pay Pal is going to have to DEFINE the fine line between business use and hobby selling use. I don't do this as a business... it's a "glorified" yardsale without all the hassle (yeah, right!!). Anyway, I like the ease that Pay Pal gives to the buyer. I know from last Christmas, before Pay Pal, I dreaded going out for my money order run. I wanted items here in my hands quickly, so I chose money orders over personal checks when buying. Being on both sides of the auction world has given me insight to both. As a "seller" (guess I should use that term sparingly) Pay Pal's quickness is wonderful... but am I ready to pay yet more fees on top of what I already pay eBay? What's next? Auction Watch charging to host my pics??? I better bite my tongue!!! So, yes, I am confused... I love Pay Pal, I hate Pay Pal. I want definite answers (cutie-pie damon)- I want to know if shipping charges will be included in the fees. I want to know why free no longer means free. I want reassurance that Pay Pal is still the wonderful place I thought it was. I could go on and on... but it's been a long long stressful day.
_________________
roxw
I'm learning to laugh!
[ edited by roxw on Sep 13, 2000 09:08 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 09:11:49 PM
PayPal COULD have, SHOULD have handled things much better,
HOWEVER, I signed up for the business account a month ago, and so far, I'm glad I did.
First of all, the buisness model for paid PayPal accounts makes more sense- I never believed that they could survive on only the "float", given the behavior of most small time opportunists that make up the bulk of PayPal customers.
I'd rather do business with an entity that will survive, than a convenient, no cost "flash in the pan".
I use the "Web Accept' features on some of my little web stores, and sales are up, and total spending per customer is up.
Would it make sense for casual sellers to go to a business account?- NO-
but it IS good for me, and for any aspiring web entrepreneurs who don't want to go to the expense & hassle of a traditional merchant account..
Perhaps the fact that you aren't a business is why you don't really understand why this upsets sellers so much, and from what you said anyway, I doubt this affects you, so it's pretty much a non-issue for yourself as long as you can keep getting your occasional use of the service provided for free. I don't think you have much to worry about. In this way, you will probably always blow Paypal's horn.
Most sellers will be affected by this however, and that is where the problem is. I read in another thread where someone stated that sellers built paypal and Paypal risked losing this business because of this. This is far from the truth. Now, that e-cash has moved forward and had made some serious in-roads on it's acceptance and use there is probably no turning back. Even if Paypal goes belly-up, there will still be enough of a demand for this thing that someone will always be doing it. Bidders demand it and eventually we will have to provide it. Paypal "put the nicotine in these cigarettes" and now we can't kick the habit. Most are hooked and Paypal is taking advantage of that. Probably their plan all along.
Sad, though, that we, as sellers who exist on small profit margins have to cough up some more of our scarce cash to a faceless entity as a tithe for doing business on the net. It almost seems like extortion. We were sheep all along and now it is time to get fleeced...
-Del
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill
posted on September 13, 2000 09:31:14 PM
Dpent - I'm just curious. If buyers had to pay the same fees as Paypal is asking sellers to pay, would you continue to use their services?
Cause I know about six months from now, someone at PayPal is gonna say, "well, we got these buyers using our services, and they ain't payin' us a dime".
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