posted on September 15, 2000 09:07:09 AM new
I want to preface this thread in stating that these are my opinions. Yet, the business ideas I am talking about are pretty standard where ever you go.
Many people want to own their own business and most have few options to do so since it takes both time and money. But with the part-time into full-time opportunities that selling on eBay presents, nearly anyone can give it a go and not badly loose their shorts or their mind if it fails.
The problem for serious Sellers, by Serious I mean those who want to start up a real business on eBay, the problem is that you are marching red-hot into the field where the casual Seller reigns. The casual Seller rarely cares about expenses involved and usually never charges a Shipping and/or Handling fee. For the casual Seller, they often fail to realize that the one dollar item they sold for ten dollars actually cost them six more dollars if they accounted for everything. That means that the serious Seller must compete with those who don't or won't bother to recoup their costs and usually charge a much lower starting cost.
IF you want to sell on eBay as a regular, tax-paying business, then you'll need to account for every expense or cost that you incur in bringing your item to market. If you are lucky enough to buy your product for a dollar apiece and then consistently sell them for a hundred dollars or more, then most online Sellers will simply hide their costs inside the product, just as brick and mortar businesses always do (they do, or they go out of business eventually). For the rest of the serious Sellers that do not have such wonderful profit margins, they must charge a Shipping and Handling fee (S&H).
Yet, if you are a regular on AW, you'll read over and over again about how some Sellers never charge a S&H fee and they do fine. That's because they can hide the fees inside of the selling price. There are Buyers who constantly cry and complain that any Handling Fee is a reason to shop elsewhere. That is the sort of stuff that people thinking of going into Selling on eBay have to contend with.
The face of eBay and other online auction web sites is changing. It is less and less the casual, friendly neighborhood garage sale and junk dealer and is becoming more and more a discount retail outlet. There will always be the casual Seller, but as the business environment improves, that percentage will shrink smaller and smaller.
My suggestion is to always charge a S&H fee if you can't bury it in the starting price and forget about what the nay-sayers on message boards rag about. I also suggest that you limit your S&H fee to what your expenses are for shipping the item to the customer, which should also include your time (when you are in business, you need to account for all your time). That is why I have stated that $6.95 to send a 2-ounce item third-class mail is not unreasonable. Of course, you'll likely want to lower that amount a bit for the time being as you are competing with those who charge nothing at all up-front.
My main point is that Handling Fees are here to stay at online auctions and that more and more Sellers will be charging it. Within a few more years, anyone who doesn't charge a S&H fee will look like they don't know any better.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:57:06 AM new
Why not simply use your "shipping" fee as a handling fee, then use your PO receipts as a business expense deduction?
No sense in calling the shipping fee a "handling" fee in your auctions[too much confusion for the bidders], but seems like a win-win situation for the seller.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:05:18 AM new
reddeer:
well, your suggestion isn't as profitable as the one borrilar is making. His suggestion results in income of bid amount plus shipping plus handling. Your suggestion results in income of bid amount plus handling, with a tax writeoff for shipping. More profit in borrilar's method - if you can do so without being at a competitive disadvantage.
His hypothesis is that ebay is changing such that the casual seller is disappearing, and it will be easier and easier to charge both shipping AND handling over time, without being at a competitive disadvantage.
Whether he is right on this or not is another question, of course. But your suggestion is a "win-lose" versus his if he is, in fact, correct about this transition.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:24:34 AM new
"Yet, if you are a regular on AW, you'll read over and over again about how some Sellers never charge a S&H fee and they do fine. That's because they can hide the fees inside of the selling price. There are Buyers who constantly cry and complain that any Handling Fee is a reason to shop elsewhere. That is the sort of stuff that people thinking of going into Selling on eBay have to contend with."
Why do I get the feeling that this paragraph above is a slam to those who dont agree with your views? Yes, you said this thread was YOUR opinion. Goody. Heres mine. HANDLING FEES are a RIP OFF if you are charging to ABSORB costs on something that takes you 5 seconds to pack up in a FREE BOX. There. Thats MY opinion.
edited to add that this is not a "whine". Its a flat out "back attcha".
posted on September 15, 2000 10:24:45 AM new
Hi All: so here we go....yet again.
How abot this: 'Buyer pays 2.00 [or whatever the cost is] Handling plus Actual Shipping & Insurance'? It has worked for me. Full disclosure and it alerts the Buyers that their widget will only carry whatever the real ciost to ship to their location is. No pre packing necessary. No getting caught short when the buyer is in some God-forasken wasteland [like, uh Kanada? ] [Neil, do not make me come back here to listen to you kvetch...itsa a joke, a gibe and aimed directly at you! At least I will not have to worry about sending it to Denver or Alaska!]
Borillar is right.....and another point is that at least with collectibles/antiques, there is often a 'book price' which the Buyers do not want to exceed. To include S&H in the start in such instances is to price oneself out of the market.
Shall we talk about fuel prices? It costs more to do business. We offer Frist Class, Book Rate & Standard Mail when it works.
Packaging materials? Another thread has mentioned how crappy the materials for the USPS are and that they are getting worse. No kidding....thin, not corrugated boxes do not carry much and are not designed to withstand the rigors of travel. A 'pro' knows that and the buyers that realize it are pleased to realize that a Seller has the smarts and cares enough to take the trouble to not take the free road and use adequate materials for the task.
For those that say they loose $$ on shipping....well it must cetainly suck to be you. Darwin will show you the way to the door.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:29:05 AM new
Good suggestions, but it's important to remember that each successful seller knows how to compete in his particular target market. What works for a seller in the collectibles market, relative to hiding/absorbing/passing on his costs to the buyer won't necessarily work for someone who's selling CD's/electronic equipment, and vice versa. Those of us who deal in merchandise where we can buy ridiculously low and sell at book/retail price have much more leeway to avoid the dreaded "handling charge" than do those whose merchandise lines require them to buy at wholesale price and sell at or somewhat below normal retail. Most of us will do what we have to do to compete in our particular market, while maximizing our profits. There really isn't much anyone can do to protect those who don't have the natural business savvy to do that.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:30:06 AM new For the casual Seller, they often fail to realize that the one dollar item they sold for ten dollars actually cost them six more dollars if they accounted for everything. That means that the serious Seller must compete with those who don't or won't bother to recoup their costs and usually charge a much lower starting cost.
You make a lot of inaccurate assumptions. Many CASUAL sellers sell high-price merchandise, PAY TAXES and make the decision TO NOT GOUGE bidders. Some SERIOUS sellers seem to look down on the CASUAL seller in a condescending manner.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:34:22 AM new
I hope it takes longer than five seconds to pack fragile orders! (Although some of the things I've received obviously were only thrown in a used box, with dirty packing material.....sorry, no feedback for you!)
I guess it is the old guard vs the new....I can only imagine the days when a pez dispenser was thrown in an envelope.
Please, charge me what you need to properly pack. Otherwise, I'll go to the local antique mall and hand-carry my treasure home myself!
posted on September 15, 2000 10:51:21 AM new
There is no such thing as "shipping" without "handling". That's why I charge a flat rate for my packages and charge very little to add an item to send it. Handling fees are good for bean counters but confusing to consumers. Flat rates that cover my expenses are simple and don't gouge.
mauimoods
My packages certainly aren't free(minimum is $.50), proper packaging and shipping takes about 5 minutes NOT 5 seconds. Labeling, double checking that X item goes to X customer, double checking addresses and adding Zip+4, time at the post office, etc. etc. At last count, there are at least a dozen details involved in making sure my package reachs your door safely. This is not MY OPINION--this is fact.
I really hate it when people who don't know what they are talking about make blanket generalizations.
posted on September 15, 2000 11:56:21 AM new
mballai...I said it was MY opinion. Since I need to go into detail because some folks dont get what Im saying, I will rephrase. I sell apparel. It takes me FIVE seconds to fold it and stick it in the waiting priority box. Should I charge HANDLING, because I had to fold it? How about the sweat I put up in bending the flaps over and pulling the sticky strip? I didnt say anything about someone packing a delicate glass figurine and needing to use bubble wrap that they PAID for just for that purpose...to make sure the item gets to wherever its going in one piece. Blanket statement? Seems thats just what YOU did, and yes, Im very much aware of what Im speaking about. Just because I dont agree with you doesnt mean Im not as knowledgeable about what I, myself sell.
posted on September 15, 2000 12:05:13 PM new
It appears we may have a different definition of what goes into "handling".
Some people seem to consider it only the "put in a box" time, in which case it can be pretty darn small (and charging for it would be perhaps uncalled for).
Others include many other activities, such as handling the payment, driving to the post office, and so forth. In those cases, it can be a lot of time (and charging for it seems a lot more reasonable).
posted on September 15, 2000 12:25:01 PM new
I have a flat shipping rate for US orders. If you order 1-3 items, shipping is $XXX. More than 3 items shipping is $XXX. Insurance is a mandatory $0.85 per order. International orders pay exact amount. Select from Air Mail or Surface Mail. By the 25th century I will even offer International cutomers teleportation service too Beam it up Scotty.
posted on September 15, 2000 12:48:41 PM new
mauimoods
Your original statement was phrased as a general statement and unless you define your terms(which you did now), you painted it as something most dealers do.
I wasn't the only one who saw your statement as a bit too general and cavalier. Bidders expect sellers to be careful packers and it denigrates those of us who are when you marginalize it. Then again it's your opinion.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:17:31 PM new
I will accept "handling" charges when sellers deduct $.33 from my final bid. For buyers, stamps are a cost and should be soaked up by someone else...right?
posted on September 15, 2000 01:19:01 PM new
bmurz....I never thought of that!!!! Thanks! Yes, I will deduct for that cost, now that I dont take paypal anymore. Only fair, ya know?
posted on September 15, 2000 01:23:40 PM new
sigh....more whiners.
That is your cost of doing business, one that the Seller could not care about nor should they. Go back to the flea markets where you can dicker with the vendor and therefore cover your cost of getting there as well as your bag o' chips and a soda.
posted on September 15, 2000 08:28:44 PM new
Borillar -
OK, here is a bidder who agrees with you - up to a point.
I want you to take the time needed to pack my item responsibly. Really, I am not interested in this - "Oh, I spent 85 cents to insure it, if it breaks you'll get your money back" philosophy. I think WAY too many sellers do exactly that - toss item in a dumpster box, affix sticker, insure, NEXT!!!!
If you need to charge me an extra $2.00, to inspire you to a workmanlike effort - no problem.
OTOH, if you intend to charge me more than a few dollars, it should be because there is alot of work involved, a big/weird/extra delicate item or whatever.
I think most sellers go wrong by insulting their bidders intelligence with ridiculous
overcharges.
Hey, I may be STUPID, but I was smart enough to come up with the $$$ I send you for your stuff! ;0
posted on September 15, 2000 08:46:12 PM new
I think it's difficult to justify a flat handling fee for every item listed. In my case I wouldn't dream of charging a handling fee for packaging the books I sell. OTOH, I've been known to add a small fee - stated up front for packaging of especially delicate items. If they're packaged with any care at all they'll take extra time and materials - and I think most bidders understand that.
I haven't noticed any effect from casual sellers - their TOS are as varied as full time sellers it seems. Some charge reasonable handling, some outrageous and some not at all. So, I can't see that as a factor.
posted on September 15, 2000 08:59:02 PM newbmurzI will accept "handling" charges when sellers deduct $.33 from my final bid.
DrTroothThat is your cost of doing business, one that the Seller could not care about nor should they.
I agree DrTrooth, but conversely, taking pictures, writing an auction description, packing an item, getting it to the delivery station, etc., etc. are a seller's cost of doing business. Why should a buyer care about that, or finance it?
Frankly, the price gouging many sellers here are advocating is nothing more than the idea of making profit on shipping charges, instead of paying one's business expenses with the profit made on one's merchandise.
To be honest, as a buyer I really don't care. All that matters to me is that the shipping cost be stated clearly up-front. If I don't like the terms, I won't bid. If a seller sneaks in extra junk after the auction (as happened to me recently: seller quoted a price in the auction then added on "$5 for packing materials" after close) I'll neg and I won't deal with that person again.
] [Neil, do not make me come back here to listen to you kvetch...itsa a joke, a gibe and aimed directly at you! At least I will not have to worry about sending it to Denver or Alaska!]
