labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 04:47:41 PM
This is a followup to the original question...go to the bottom for the new question  ...
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There is an auction. Quantity of 2 items.
1 item has a bid for the minimum--say $5.00
I want both items and I am willing to go $10.00 each for them, so I put in a bid for 2 items at $10.00.
Now, the bid shows up at $10.00!
How much do I owe? Do I owe $5.00 for one and $10.00 for the other? Or do I owe $5.00 for one and $5.50 for the other? I find dutch bids really confusing!
Thanks for the help!
[ edited by labbie1 on Sep 22, 2000 01:58 PM ]
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2000 04:54:45 PM
Because you wanted both items for $10.00 and I am guessing your name is at the top of the bidders list. It will cost a total of $20.00 if the auction ended right now. (2x$10)
But if you had only wanted one and bid $10 and the other bidder was still in for $5 if the auction ended you would get your's for $5 also. One for you and one for the other bidder. Of course there are variables to dutch auctions. If someone only wants one and bids $15, you still could win one and they would win the other, but because you bid for 2, you do not have to take only one and therefore would not get any items.
Clear as mud right? LOL
It can be confusing...
Ain't Life Grand...
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 04:57:25 PM
So, it won't just go to $5.50 like a normal auction where you bid your high amount but it only goes enough to cover the lower bid? You have to take it for the highest price that you were willing to go?
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debtrek
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:02:45 PM
I know dutch bid auctions can be confusing,both to understand AND explain!
In your case,your placing a higher bid merely gives you the edge if other bidders come along...
But if you win,the item still gets sold to you at the lowest bid made,$5...you will NOT have to pay $10 for yours...remember that your larger bid only gave you a better "opportunity" to win the item...
GOT IT?
GOOD LUCK! 
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:10:42 PM
Okay, the auction is now over, and the person wrote to me and told me that I owe a total of $20.00 plus shipping for the two items.
Is this right or should it be $15 (one at 5 and one at 10) or should it be $10.00 for the two?
This is gonna be one EXPENSIVE night for me if I have to pay what I thought was the "proxy" price for BOTH! Sheesh!
I really don't understand dutch auctions! Dang!
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:11:21 PM
And unfortunately, Ebay's help pages are no help--but then should I be surprised?
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Pantheus
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:13:52 PM
based on the number of items in the dutch. Your example (2): the top bidders at auctions-end start down the list, and all get the item for the low bid that is still within the range available. That is if you are top bidder for 2, you get both at top bid. If you wanted two the right bid, assuming you were able to be there at the end, (in case of overbids) would have been $ 5.00, and you'd have won both for that bid.
A clearer example might be 5 items, you want 2. Start with high bidder take their quantity out, (1), they get it for the low bid of those left in that range. Second & Third high each get 1, and your fourth place bid is low, within the range of 5 available, all bidders get them for your lowest 4 th place bid.
Won a dutch yesterday. 5 items, listed at $ 9.95 Was one bid for 1 item at $ 9.95 I bid 9.95 each for two. Auction closed, two bids total, 3 items all went at $ 9.95 seller has two left. Had someone come and bid $ 100.00 all would still have sold for $ 9.95 IF still within the range of the 5 available.
A Dutch Auction does not use proxy bidding as a normal auction does. Once all of the quantity of items have been bid for at the opening bid price, each new bid will need to be bid at by at least one higher bid increment.
muddier, or clearer?
edited to add, based on your posts while I was typing: Your seller is correct in THIS case, your bid was both low and high within the range available (2) so you get both at that bid.
[ edited by Pantheus on Sep 15, 2000 06:20 PM ]
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:20:42 PM
So, I DO owe the $10.00 each or a total of $20.00 plus shipping? Say it ain't so...
If you were the seller, would you understand that I screwed up and give me a break? Just asking...
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jema
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:45:24 PM
I found dutch auctions to be very confusing too. A good thing to do is to go to a closed dutch auction which had a pretty big quantity, and study the bids that were made and try to see how it works from the bid history. Also look at some other ongoing dutch auctions with a quantity larger than 2 and see how it works when other people bid and how the bid amounts change as more bidders participate. It helped me to figure them out.
Labbie - what is this auction? I'd like to go look at it.
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helnjoe
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:56:43 PM
labbie1:
If two items were up for bids and you say you want both at 10.00 each, and no one goes over your 10.00 bid - you own them.
If one person bid 5.00 on one, and you bid 10.00 on one, you would both get one each
for 5.00.
In Dutch auctions you have to watch price AND quantity.
If you tell us which auction to look at, someone will explain it since it has already been a done deal.
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 06:59:30 PM
Oh and though my bid was late, it is because I was waiting for the seller to send me pricing info on shipping the two speakers together and he didn't get back to me until late.
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joice
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:05:06 PM
labbie1,
I'm sorry I had to delete your post. It contained a link to an auction which means you must invite the seller. The CG's do not differentiate between active auctions and closed auctions.
You can still discuss the transaction without the identifying information.
Joice
Moderator.
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helnjoe
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:05:48 PM
I hate to tell you this but you just bought yourself 2 speakers. I would e-mail the seller right away and explain that you didn't understand. He may go the the next lower bidder and offer it to him. There is such a price spread between the two bids you may have a problem.
If you have to take both put one up for auction. I feel awful for you.  Good luck!
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capotasto
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:14:26 PM
Here's ebay's explanation:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/g-dutch-auction.html
Here's another that I found helpful:
http://home.earthlink.net/~thedeweyt/dutch.html
Vinnie
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capotasto
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:18:21 PM
By the way, Labbie, you said you were willing to go to $10 each for them... what's your beef?
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helnjoe
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:25:13 PM
If you go back to the auction page and click on the "see high bidders" in RED you will see only your name there with your quantity and bid price.
If you click on "see bid history" you will see your high bid and person who bid below you. If your seller won't work a deal with you (and I'm not say that he should), contact the low bidder and you may recoup some of your money. Just some suggestions.
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gboy
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posted on September 15, 2000 07:25:43 PM
Dutch auctions aren't really as complicated as some people seem to think. The important thing to remember about them is that every winning bidder pays the same amount per item, and that amount is the lowest winning bid (the auction page ALWAYS shows this amount). Once you know that, it's quite simple.
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capotasto
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posted on September 15, 2000 08:00:45 PM
In this case the lowest winning bid was labbie's $10
It is interesting to note that if there were 100 items offered and one person wanted them all and felt $10 would get them, he should bid $10 each for 99 of them (not 100) -- if the lowest winning bid (for the 100th item) was $5, then the high bidder would get his 99 for $5 each.
BUT if he had bid $10 for 100 items, he would have to pay that amount!!!
Vinnie
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2000 08:19:22 PM
Yes Labbie, you owe $20 plus shipping.
Ain't Life Grand...
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labbie1
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posted on September 15, 2000 08:23:47 PM
Thanks everyone. I still find it clear as mud. Grrr...
I read all of the info at Ebay about it and it appeared in their little thing about pens that even though the high bid said $1.25 for the pens, they only had to pay $1 and so the high bid didn't matter. I am really dense in this dutch auction thing! 
I explained to the seller that I misunderstood the bidding process when I bid on these for my son and that I would appreciate it if he would work with us because of that. However, I I explained that I will honor the bid as my son DOES want both of the speakers. We thought it would just protect one of the speakers from others bidding over it at least (as in proxy bidding). We didn't realize it would go all the way to the max for BOTH of the speakers! Yeech!
I will pay the full amount if I have to and my son will have the speakers at about $100 less than ordering retail.
Expensive lesson though, that will cost me an extra $170.00--which I will pay because my son shouldn't have to pay for my boo boo--know what I mean?
The things we do for our younguns. I love him dearly and he is worth it. 
I am staying way away from dutch auctions from now on!
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avaloncourt
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posted on September 15, 2000 08:57:43 PM
Definitely 2 at $10. Sorry. I had this happen to a bidder not too long ago. I had a quantity of 8 of an item up. The bidder put in a bid for all eight and thought it was a proxy style approach.
I, too, thought things worked on a progressive system also. When the bidding ended she had all 8 at much more than I would have believed anyone paid. I wrote ebay and got a clarification on the auction. They said she indeed owed the amount on all of them because she put in a bid for the full quantity.
I passed along the email and she was very understanding about the whole situation but she learned a huge lesson about dutch bidding and so did I.
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labbie1
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posted on September 22, 2000 01:45:06 PM
all is well that ends well...my buyer took pity on me and struck a very fair deal! Bless him!
Now for the follow up question:
He deserves TWO feedbacks on the dutch, since I won TWO items, but I don't seem to be able to leave 2 feedbacks.
Can you leave more than one feedback on a dutch auction when you have won more than one of the items?
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macandjan
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posted on September 22, 2000 02:24:38 PM
Yes your bid is per piece - You do not enter a total just because you bid more than 1. They are right sorry. I have had a number of
people bid that way and I always tell them I will take what they intended.
Once I pointed out the error and offered the lower price to someone and got a nasty vulgar ranting reply about how they were not going to pay the higher price and what a terrible person i am. Usually I am polite but
this time I just let them have it. They replied - Oh...Sorry.
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labbie1
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posted on September 22, 2000 02:38:33 PM
macandjan Thank you for the reply.
However, the follow-up question I was asking is:
He deserves TWO feedbacks on the dutch, since I won TWO items, but I don't seem to be able to leave 2 feedbacks.
Can you leave more than one feedback on a dutch auction when you have won more than one of the items?
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macandjan
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posted on September 22, 2000 02:51:46 PM
OOps sorry - no - it was one auction #.
I don't even expect more than 1 feedback for multiple buyers 'cause it won't change my display number. Very few will look at the feedback page to see how many are from unique
users.
Glad he treated you right.
[ edited by macandjan on Sep 22, 2000 02:53 PM ]
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sulyn1950
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posted on September 22, 2000 02:55:55 PM
Labbie-I think you can only leave 1. He probably could be left 1 by EACH DIFFERENT winner. Since you were the only winner, I would gather you could leave only one. On the bright side, EVEN if you left him two, he would only get increased or credited for 1 anyway. Just make you ONE a really good "one"!
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helnjoe
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posted on September 22, 2000 03:00:21 PM
Hi labbie:
It is considered one auction. You can leave only one feedback. It doesn't matter how many items you got in that acution. I would certainly give him glowing feedback.
I'm glad that it worked out somewhat for you.
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labbie1
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posted on September 22, 2000 03:04:46 PM
Thanks guys! He deserves TWO really Wonderful feedbacks! Great seller! I know it wouldn't change his rating by more than one, but he does deserve 2! Boy is my son happy! (Although I am thinking the neighbors aren't gonna be when he installs them! hehe )
Thanks again! I knew I could count on you guys for great knowlege.
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