posted on September 16, 2000 01:20:57 PM
I just finished reading through the "forbidden sales" stuff on eBay, and still don't know if these are okay to sell or not.
This is a set of two servers/spreaders with silver blades (probably plate, not sterling) and what appear to be bone or tusk handles. I doubt that they are real ivory, as they are quite yellow and have large darker yellow/brown discolorations that are integral to the material (not caused by use or age). The larger item has a slight curve to the end of the handle, almost like the tusk from some huge animal. That, plus the discolorations, makes me think these are some form of tooth or tusk rather than bone.
Here are a couple of scans...I'm sorry, I must have been out of class the day they taught "links."
posted on September 16, 2000 01:29:08 PM
It certainly has the ivory look. Old ivory often has those longitudal hairlines and often has darkened areas like that too.
You may want to try the hot pin test to see if is synthetic though.
posted on September 16, 2000 01:39:54 PM
I don't think they are synthetic, as I'm certain they come from at least 1900 if not earlier, but I should check that out anyway. What's the "hot pin test"?
If they are that old then they are probably genuine ivory. It certainly looks genuine from here.
The hot pin test. Hold a pin in a pair of pliers and heat it red hot. Touch the point to the handles in an inconspicuous area. If it melts or smells like melting plastic, they are synthetic.
posted on September 16, 2000 02:47:57 PM
My grandparents had a lot of this sort of thing; as both were eldest siblings, they inherited tons of doodaddy stuff from their forbears.
As I recall, several carving sets had handles made of "horn," (a/k/a "antler" as in "elk horn", and a number of otherwise unidentifiable server thingies had handles I was told were bone, not ivory (and they had a bunch of ivory and French ivory and celluloid gewgaws too, so I think they could tell the difference - but you never know).
Given the variegation in the one on the right, what do you think of the "horn" idea? (No funny remarks, please.)
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Sep 16, 2000 02:49 PM ]
posted on September 16, 2000 03:03:04 PM
Sonsie .... They are not ivory. From what I can make out from the pics they appear to be bone.
Most Stag handles [Elk Antler] were left in the "rough".
posted on September 16, 2000 03:55:04 PM
I could go for horn (antler) or bone...but the horns I've seen on deer, elk, etc. are generally not yellow, with variegations like this. That's why my first inclination was that they are old bone or possibly "tusks" as opposed to ivory (and what is the difference between, say, elephant tusks, which ARE ivory, and the tusks or teeth of some other large mammal?)
From my reading, it sounds like ivory is difficult to sell, even if legal...you end up getting your auction pulled anyway. Is bone "safe" in that regard? If so, I'll call 'em "bone" and be done with it.
posted on September 16, 2000 04:07:11 PM
Sonsie -
For structural reasons, ivory is seldom used on utensil handles. Bone is stronger.
Take a STRONG magnifying glass and look at the handle where it joins the blades, and at the tip of the handle. If you can see teeny little holes in it, it's bone. Bone of that shape (even curved) is easy to find. And the dark color looks like a long-ignored greas spot.
Antler is a form of bone - you might have polished antler handles
posted on September 16, 2000 06:22:15 PM
I say "stag", but that is just a guess from the pics. They are probably antler material, but not elk. These generally come from deer horn (antlers)and were quite common in this type of item at the turn of the century. I have seen examples like this in both knives and swords, and it is becoming more popular once again.
If you have any markings on the pieces themselves it would give me a clue as to the exact nature (source) of the material. Different countries were known for using differnt types of horn or bone for handles. If I can find any info that might help you I will be glad to post it up.
By the way, "stag" is the term used in the biz to denote antler, regardless of the animal source.
As far as I know or have heard, there is no prohibition against horn or bone items on ebay, as long as they are not from endangered species.
posted on September 16, 2000 11:00:49 PM
Thanks, all, for the help. There isn't a mark anywhere on these items that would identify them as to maker or country, unfortunately. But since bone and antler seem to be acceptable to sell, I'll go with one of those in the description.
posted on September 16, 2000 11:07:40 PM
There have been policy changes concerning ivory, and most forms which have been used to make implements are OK to sell in ebay. They've backed from the hardline stance they used to have in place.
as in "elk horn", and a number of otherwise unidentifiable server thingies had handles I was told were bone, not ivory (and they had a bunch of ivory and French ivory and celluloid gewgaws too, so I think they could tell the difference - but you never know).