posted on September 20, 2000 07:05:41 PM
I have become increasingly concerned about retaliatory negative feedback on eBay. I have a feedback rating of 400+ with 7 negatives, all of them in retaliation for negatives that I left lousy sellers or non-paying bidders. Recently I have stopped giving negative feedback to non-paying bidders and/or sellers who screw me because I am afraid of the negative feedback that they will leave me. I fear that the negatives will scare off some bidders. For example... I won an auction for a Griffey bat card for $45. The seller contacted me and told me that he would like to void the transaction. After arguing back and forth for a week he finally told me that he wouldn't sell it because the price did not get high enough (the idiot should have put a reserve on it then)!!! I left him negative feedback and he left retaliatory negative feedback for me. I was in the right on this!!! The entire feedback process is comprimised as soon as buyers and sellers become afraid of leaving negative feedback for the fear of retaliation. Those buyers and sellers who are bad eBayers are the ones who benefit, by not getting called out. And the honest ones get screwed. Comments anyone?
posted on September 20, 2000 07:14:07 PM
You said...
The entire feedback process is comprimised as soon as buyers and sellers become afraid of leaving negative feedback for the fear of retaliation.
but you also said...
Recently I have stopped giving negative feedback to non-paying bidders and/or sellers who screw me because I am afraid of the negative feedback that they will leave me.
which leads to the conclusion that your actions are part of the reason you claim the feedback process is being compromised.
Comments anyone?
The only solution to the problem you describe is for each user to leave appropriate feedback, understanding that there will always be the risk of retaliation.
posted on September 20, 2000 07:17:21 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your retaliatory negative feedbacks - but we all have them. I at one time was afraid to leave NEGS for deadbeats because of the retaliation but I don't feel that way anymore. I get about 10 deadbeats per WEEK - and if they are still registered on ebay (many are NARU'd before I get the chance to neg) then I NEG them. If they leave me a retaliatory NEG then I post a response stating that. I feel I am helping the ebay community by warning other sellers about this deadbeat and maybe the next seller won't have to deal with this person. I know I appreciate all the NEGS that other sellers leave to warn ME of deadbeats. If all your NEGS are from retaliation, then anyone looking at your feedback can tell you are still a reputable seller. Please don't fear the retaliatory NEGS - it hurts the rest of us sellers and it leaves it up to the next seller to do the dirty work.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on September 20, 2000 08:08:16 PM
I've found that you can respond to negative feedback that someone has left you. In your response, state that it is retaliatory feedback. People will be able to figure it out if they look deeper into your other good feedback, and the other person's bad feedback.
Sorry to hear about your negative feedback woes. Don't let it get you down. Neg the turkeys!
I'm glad you got your neg, it seems that you really like to leave negs for others. If the item didn't reach enough bidders enough exposure it doesn't mean that you have to take advantage of this guy and force him to give it to you or you'll leave a neg fb, well you got what you deserve. You tried to take advantage of the situation, you want to pay only a few dollars for something that cost 100 times more. You have to learn to be fair with other sellers and not take advantage of them, sadly you had to receive 7 negs before you learned the lesson.
posted on September 20, 2000 09:45:21 PM
Are you kidding??? You think that it is cool for a seller to decide that the auction didn't reach enough people and not sell it??? That is crazy! We might as well not even use any auction service then because, under your idea, non of the auctions should be binding. I am sure that I will never bid on anything that you list.
posted on September 20, 2000 10:35:09 PM
this is a timely "thread" indeed...I am a new seller on ebay, but in the few auctions I've sold, I've had my share of problems, tomorrow it will have been two weeks since two of my auctions ended and neither high bidder has paid yet...I've been considering giving negative feedback because the 10 day period has elapsed, then I thought I should give them a little "grace" period, but I'm beginning to wonder when enough is enough, one stated he was out of town and would put a "check" in the mail on the 16th, well, now it's the 20th and still no check--and he lives about 45 minutes from here! the other lives a couple of states away and had stated at the end of auction that a check was in the mail, I sent her several emails thinking that perhaps the check was lost or stolen in the mail, and had no reply to her email until I mentioned that I was going to telephone her if I did not get a response, so she finally responded saying she had been "experiencing technical difficulties". I don't like expending so much time and energy worrying and wondering what's up with these bidders, I don't want to leave negative feedback...but if I haven't received the money by tomorrow, that's it!!!even if I do get the money I'm thinking I'll leave a neutral and just state how long it took to receive the money...also, it is clearly ebay policy that one is obligated to sell an item that is put up for auction-which we are reminded of every time we get our daily status emails...so regarding the seller of the griffey card he was clearly in the wrong, I sympathize with his "loss" but a deal is a deal...
posted on September 20, 2000 11:34:09 PM
I have had to respond to the retaliatory negs, but I do give negs myself when deserved. I had one bad case this summer with a fellow who was apparently a compulsive bidder. Got in WAY over his head and couldn't pay all the folks. Made up some cock-and-bull story about a ruptured gas line closing down his business, but he was bidding all the time and feeding other sellers this before me. The guy needed AA - Auctions Anonymous. He'd give every seller a neg that neg'd him. I just said to see his feedback and called it what it was. Oddly, I think he sold this story to ebay and may be out there to play deadbeat again, unless they've caught on.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:08:33 AM
junqueen3: I'd wait a bit longer on the guy who said he paid on the 16th but the check hadn't arrived by the 20th. I've found that local checks can actually take *longer* than ones sent from other states. Don't ask me why.
Plus, if the guy is out of town you don't know where he is sending the check from.
Plus, if he dropped the letter in a mail box after hours the check didn't even start moving until the 17th.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:46:50 AM
I think the seller should leave the feedback when the payment arrives instead of waiting for the buyer to post theirs first. Why does the seller feel they have to wait until the buyer posts their feedback? When the payment arrives at my house I sit down that night write a email to the buyer telling them I received their payment, the package will be mailed in the morning and then I go and leave the feedback. If you do what you say then your part of the auction is over. I know that it really doesn't end until the USPS gets the package to them but if you mailed it when you said, you have no control over the mailing and if that is late and the buyer gives you a negative because of that then you can answer that negative. Why all the fuss over the feedbacks. I have had quite a few where the buyer doesn't even leave one and I really don't care. I know I have conducted my auction properly.
posted on September 21, 2000 05:57:27 AM
I don't own or owned the auction where this guy Ifelipe23=Puto bidded and won, I'm a power seller with more than 3000FB and I know all the rules about eBay, BUT some people don't know about the reserve price or in many cases they just forget or etc. It happened to me in many occasions, BUT it doesn't mean that I did it on purpose, also doesn't mean I have to give it away almost for free, just for a few cents because this guy want it or because eBays says so. If a seller makes a mistake, the other party doesn't have right to take the advantage of the situation and/or force you to "sell" it for a few pennies, or he will leave a negative feedback, I bet this Puto bother (harrased) this seller for an entire week forcing him to sell him the item (give away the item), also I bet that this Puto didn't even try to get an agreement about the price, he just wanted to pay a few pennies for an item that cost hundreds of dollars, he just wanted to take full advantage of this newbie member and/or the mistake of the seller. So please give me a break, no matter what eBay says, if seller makes a mistake, that's ABSOLUTELY his fault, but the other party doesn't have the right to rob him and expect eBay to support him. (Well, I'm just assuming, I bet this is not the case.)
posted on September 21, 2000 06:45:38 AM
I'm trying to figure out what to do about buyers who wait FOREVER to pay and then expect positive feedback. I had two auctions close around the 26th of August. No payment yet. I sent both buyers reminder notices a few days ago. Both of them responsed with "the check went out in yesterdays mail." How convenient. My first question is: Why would you wait almost three weeks to even put your payment in the mail??? My second is, if I do receive the payment at all, would it be appropriate to leave a positive feedback that says: EOA 8/26, payment rec'd 9/??.
posted on September 21, 2000 07:18:41 AM
Retaliatory negatives are unfortunately part of auction life. I would not fear leaving a negative IF it were deserved. People who retaliate are in violation of eBay's feedback rules and they show themselves to be undesirable trading partners; it reflects far worse on them than it does on you if they weren't up to their end of the bargain.
posted on September 21, 2000 07:23:42 AMIf a seller makes a mistake, the other party doesn't have right to take the advantage of the situation and/or force you to "sell" it for a few pennies...
So, using this reasoning, I'm sure you'd have no problem with a buyer in one of your auctions cancelling his bid after the auction was over because he bid too much money, would you?
posted on September 21, 2000 07:55:02 AM
After thinking about this a bit, I kinda agree with Poton. OK, not really. But if a seller screws up and gets far, far less than he expected for an item, the reality is that he can refuse to sell it. I think it's unethical, but that's beside the point. There is no practical way to force the seller to sell the item.
BUT, if a seller decides to do this, he should EXPECT negative feedback in return. And he is absolutely wrong to leave a retaliatory neg. If there were justice in the feedback system, the buyer's neg would be removed.
posted on September 21, 2000 08:10:16 AM
where in ebays guidelines does it say that if a person "screws up" and gets less for an item than expected, he doesn't have to sell that item? it might be useful to me in the future if that occurs in one of my auctions and i have sellers "remorse", i just used the "reserve" option on the last item i sold to protect myself, the item still didn't fetch what i would have hoped, similiar items go for twice as much in boutiques, but it's the luck of the draw...and i will honor my sale. how is the bidder taking advantage? should he have bid higher (against himself, apparently) because he understood that an item like that is worth more, to be "ethical"? i don't understand your logic, poton...
posted on September 21, 2000 08:52:39 AM
400 POS's with 7 NEG's is only 1.75%. Few brick&mortar companies have such a good rating!!
This is business. Sooner or later someone somewhere will either get PO'd at you and leave a neg or you get PO'd at someone and the retaliate. It's bound to happen.
We know how you feel. We have far less than your 400 but are about to leave our first neg and fear a retaliation (buyer has the merchandise but refuses to pay the balance due even after 3 emails and 2 snail mail bills). Well just deal with it and move one.
posted on September 21, 2000 10:01:24 AM
Poton-
If a seller "screws up" and forgets to put a reserve on an item, he has the entire length of the auction to cancel any outstanding bids and end the auction. If he chooses to gamble and let the auction run, its not a screw up, its a calculated gamble. If the auction ends with a lower than anticipated bid, he lost his bet. But he had the opportunity to 1) put a reserve on, and 2) cancel bids and end the auction. If he didn't do either of these and refuses to sell the item, he deserves worse than a negative, in my opinion.
rca001
posted on September 21, 2000 10:28:12 AMpoton - Here's some text from ebay's "daily status report" emails, which given your 3000+ FB I'm sure you have received:
Keep in mind that you are committing to selling these items at eBay. Refusing to sell these items to the high bidder at the end of your auction will cause you to lose your registered status.
How does that jibe with your assertion that if (for whatever reason) a seller isn't happy with the high bid his item receives, he can refuse to sell?
lfelipe23, I'd suggest you pass on seller's email to Safeharbor, and let them know about his negging you too.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Sep 21, 2000 10:29 AM ]
It seems that you don't sell more than 50 items a week. But if you sell more than 550 a week believe me you will make mistakes and you won't even notice it, until the auction is over.
Hart, I have refused to give away my items for my mistakes and I haven't lost my account, and NOBODY WILL when it's a mistake. I would like to see your faces the day you make a mistakes like this seller did, I would really like to see if you are going to agree with all the bull you are saying here and if you are going to "sell" the item for a few pennies, to a guy that all he's trying to do is take an advantage of your mistake, and he knows that very well. I don't understand how this guy could leave a negative feedback, when he knows very well that it was a mistake or just this new seller doesn't know about the reserve feature, but what I believe is that this seller doesn't even know that the reserve feature exist, but this Ifelipe23 tried to scare him with his 400 to this newbie.
One more thing, stop complaining about everything, if you complain about eBay, I can understand, but now what I notice is that you guys are also complaining about PayPal and its ridiculous fees. Before PayPal existed you only accepted checks, MO and cash, then PayPal came to the rescue for free, you should thank them for giving the service for free, BUT now you want extra services and also want it for free, GIVE ME A BREAK! you should be thanked that now you can accept credit cards, at least you sound important by saying that you accept credit cards. STOP COMPLAINING AND CRYING for ridiculous things, otherwise everybody (The media) will notice that we complaint about everything and will not pay any attention to our serious complaints.
This guy deserved his 7 negs, he has only 400FB and he already have 7 negs, I see this pretty guy is very impulsive (I'm just assuming) he got what he deserves. And the day you make a mistake I really want to see your face agreeing with all bull you say here, especially to that guy Hartquilt.
Yes Ifelipe23, listen to Haltquilt, yes listen to him and send your claim to safe harbor and explain them that this seller didn't accept your penies for a product that cost hundreds of dollars.
You have no support for your argument. By your logic, buyers could just say "sorry, bid went too high." Also, what would happen to the world if everything was done with your faulty logic. Someone commits a crime and then says, "I didn't know that it was wrong." So should we just let that person off. The seller probably didn't put a reserve on the auction because reserve auctions get far fewer bids. NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON sellers have an obligation to actually sell the items that they list. To arbitrarily decide what items you will and will not sell is ridiculous! Bidders have to be held responsible if they bid too high and sellers have to be held responsible if they list an auction incorrectly or the bid doesn't reach their desired level. If you don't want to sell an item for a low price, set a reserve or a higher opening bid. Business people have to take responsibility for mistakes that they make. If you make an error in an auction that only means that you should pay closer attention and be more careful in the future. I am not asking any seller to give items away, just hold up their end of the deal. I start most of my auctions at a penny, and if the bid doesn't go high enough I still sell to the bidder -- BECAUSE I AM OBLIGATED TO! Not only am I obligated to under eBay TOS, but I think that I have an ethical/moral (maybe those are too strong of words) obligation to make good on my end of the deal. A 3000FB doesn't make you a good seller, it just makes you a lousy one that has been around for a while.
I just still believe that you were trying to take advantage of this seller. I have more than 3000FB and I have only 6 negs and you already have 7 and only 400fb. Lousy or not lousy I never take the advantage of anyone, and I would never expect to receive an item that cost hundreds of dollars and I only want to pay pennies. Don't talk too much and be real and fair. You got what you deserve, I still believe that.
posted on September 21, 2000 04:41:00 PM
"believe that you were trying to take advantage of this seller" - of course all transactions occur because of buyers wishing to take advantage to the sellers' offers.
The auction concept calls for the sale to take place whenever any reserve is met. A large portion of buyers hope to get bargains, and plenty of sellers are hoping for people to get carried away and overbid. Each eventuality happens many times every day on ebay. This is not news, its the core of the auction appeal.
I have no idea what the subject card typically sells for, but $45.00 is a lot of pennies.
The reneging seller deserves negative feedback, the honest bidder does not.
posted on September 21, 2000 04:41:47 PM
I agree that retaliatory negs are a problem. Ebay needs to provide a way to have them removed.
Speaking from experience as a one time newbie, if a new buyer notices that someone has 15+ negatives, they are going to be nervous about dealing with that person (regardless of how many positives the person has). How many people are going to search through 20 pages of feedback to see what happened with those negs or how the seller or buyer responded to them?
poton
If a seller lists the auction (without a reserve) he or she knows the risk and is obligated to complete the transaction.
posted on September 21, 2000 09:49:56 PM
I don't agree with poton's analysis, but I did once win an auction for a $200 item for $30 as the only bidder. Horribly mislisted.
posted on September 22, 2000 05:23:32 AM
This is truely sad and I see it as being a MAJOR problem in our country/world today. I just can't understand how some people see this as acceptable behavior. It blows my mind to see these folks screw up and then refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Then to add further insult, they want to avert blame by accusing someone else as being at fault or being the wrongdoer. It makes one wonder where we went wrong (well, actually I have a pretty good idea but this isn't the place to discuss it).
posted on September 22, 2000 05:44:56 AM
poton, you must have been smoking too much of the good stuff. Why don't you start your auction at the minimum price you are willing to sell?. Problem is you start all your auctions at say 1 penny to attract attention (with no reserve because you are too cheap to pay the reserve fees) & then expect your customers to know the true value of the item. Everyone bids on eBay to get good deals, if I get an item at a good price then that's great but how do I know what the final price should be to make the seller happy.
Why don't you put a line in your auction hat says, 'Please bid at least $$$ because if not I am losing money & I can't feed my poddle named Tiffiny'. btw I run a large book distribution center & I add about 200 auctions a week in eBay.
posted on September 22, 2000 05:48:03 AM
POTON: If the item didn't reach enough bidders enough exposure it doesn't mean that you have to take advantage of this guy and force him to give it to you or you'll leave a neg fb, well you got what you deserve.
Yikes! Really UNPROFESSIONAL/UNETHICAL. If you are such a hot seller and have this attitude I have to assume you have made many mistakes. If you can't keep track of your auctions, it's not the bidder's fault. Check 'em before you post. Cancel 'em before they end. It's your responsibility. I've auctioned items without a reserve and taken a beating on a couple of them... but I have followed through. It's not the bidder's fault. Win a few, lose a few. On the average though, I'm way ahead. If the bidder gets a bargain - I'm happy for him; if I get a profit - I'm happy for me.
On second thought, POTON's posts smell like a troll.
