posted on September 21, 2000 11:17:43 AM
A few weeks ago I sold an item on eBay. A week or more later the customer tells me he sent payment in the mail but that it was returned to him because he improperly addressed the letter. So then he sent payment via PayPal. However, I live 70 miles out of town and due to gas prices and the time it takes, I only ship items out once a week, on tuesday. Because this payment came after tuesday, I had to wait for the next tuesday to roll around. I shipped it this past tuesday. Now this guy is claiming I am trying to rip him off, and that he has had to wait 3 weeks to get his item.
"I am writing in reference to the CMD FD-2000 Floppy Drive that you sold to me on ebay. I paid you in full for this item via PayPal on 9/4/2000 yet I have never received a confirmation from you, an email telling me my drive was shipped, or any kind of response for that matter. If it is your intention to defraud me, then let me be clear that I have all the evidence I need to produce much static, discontent and downright nastiness in your life between several agencies designed to provide protection against such attempts. I do not mean to be a jerk - no actually - I do mean to be a jerk. WTF is my drive? I think three weeks is sufficient time for you to package it up and ship it... don't you? If you do not answer me within 24 hours - with a tracking number at the very least - then this time tomorrow I will be filling out mail fraud paperwork and reporting you to your local authorities for theft, as well as ebay, paypal, and as many govt. agencies as I can possibly think of (and I can think of quite a few)."
I told him I don't send shipping notifications because I sell too many items, and that his item was shipped this past tuesday. Then he tells me:
"I don't care if you care much for my
threats - you are selling goods online - with this comes a certain level of
responsibility to your customers, like communication, prompt delivery,
tracking information (i.e. the USPS has optional tracking confirmation now),
etc. You not only decided *not* to do any of these - you wouldn't have
bothered to respond at all had I not prompted you for a response. You will
be getting negative feedback from me on ebay - this I can guarantee. There
are laws which require that, upon receipt of payment, that items be shipped
within 24-48 hours (except Sunday). Are you aware of these laws? Just be
lucky you are not accepting credit card transactions yourself - in this
case - you must ship the items *before* you can make the charge to the
credit card. I'm not sure how this pricipal applies to PayPal, but I intend
to find out very soon. As for my threats? They are not threats - they are
promises. If you fail to deliver on your end of this transaction then you
will be brought up on charges of fraud by the consumer protection agency in
your neck of the sticks as well as having your lack of committment decidedly
reported tot he US postal service as fraud - shall I go on? Is the picture
painted clear enough for you to understand that I am not playing games with
you. If I do not have my drive by the end of this week then I will go forth
with these promises. Tell them, when your being assaulted from the rear in jail (which you will eventually be in at this rate), to spread it real wide and lube it up real good so it doesn't hurt so bad. Take care!
"
I don't even make mention of any guaranteed next day shipping, or even mention when items will be shipped due to the infrequent trips I make to town. Do I have any recourse against these abusive threats?
posted on September 21, 2000 11:35:18 AM
Are there really laws that you have to ship 24-48 hrs after reciept of payment?
If so I'm in trouble with the law, I'm a day late of that 24-48 hr time frame!
Yeah yeah I know that ebay sellers are not the same as places like catalog, or off the TV products, that always say 4-6 week delivery. But do you have to ship within 24-48 hrs?
posted on September 21, 2000 11:37:03 AM
I think with Billpoint the item must be shipped within 48 hours of payment, but I don't think PayPal has that restriction.
I always email my customers upon receiving a PayPal payment, because I want to let them know they got the correct email addy. I let them know their item will be shipped in 1-2 days (even if sometimes it takes 3 days), and on the day I ship I send another email. This email allows me to state feedback has been left, leave them with a link for feedback, and also a link to my website, for hopefully future sales in case they are happy with my item.
This person is very hyper. Granted, they haven't heard from you in awhile, but they could have started out with an inquiring email rather than a threatening one.
I would just politely write back when their item was shipped, when they should expect it, and say sorry for the inconvenience.
You may also need to state in future auctions your policy about shipping only once a week to help manage expectations.
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.
[ edited by ksterni on Sep 21, 2000 11:37 AM ]
[ edited by ksterni on Sep 21, 2000 11:38 AM ]
posted on September 21, 2000 11:46:05 AM
Yes Billpoint does say that, once the buyer pays the invoice, which always bugged me, I do ship within 48 hrs, usually. But for them to tell me I have to, bugs me.
Then you get the buyer, who says, I'm paying by PayPal, and you wait and wait, and sometimes they pay it a week later. Same with a Billpoint invoice.
But if you put in your auction, that you ship once a week, or twice a week, there seems to be a lot of bidders that do not read that, and will b*tch anyway.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:48:00 AM
I would forward a copy of his emails to safeharbor. There is no reason to be abusive;whether they consider that to be grounds for action I do not know; I'd NARU him pronto.
If you did not violate your TOS or anything regarding eBay terms, I wouldn't worry. I'd say your shipping is a tad slow to my liking, but not worthy of a neg. However you have several weeks to ship something, not 24-48 hours as he thinks.
You aren't obligated to do business with anyone who pays late.
The fact that he's waiting mainly cause he screwed up is the most irritating factor I see. I'd blacklist him from further auctions if he isn't NARU'd by eBay. He also is just shooting off his mouth. No one is going to do anything when they examine the evidence.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:49:24 AM
No, he was in error when he claimed payment on 9/4. He sent payment on 9/12, the tuesday before last tuesday. Payment was sent too late to be included in that patch of items.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:53:58 AM
Let's flip the coin here. Sellers expect buyer to ship out the payment immediately if not sooner. Read the gripes in these threads on late payments. The least a buyer can expect is for the seller to ship as soon as they receive payment. If that is not possible, an email saying they received payment and the date of shipment is the least they are due. If a seller cannot do this, then they should not be selling. You make time for the things you have to do, like emails.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:57:58 AM
It might be a good idea to state within your auctions that you only ship one day per week, and note the day also. A friend of mine only shipped on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and it was plainly stated in her descriptions.
As far as "having" to ship within 2 days, I've seen plenty of auctions where the sellers only ship once or twice per week. As long as you are up front about this in your auctions, the buyers can't complain if they bid anyway.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:17:41 PM
I do agree that this guy is totally out of line.
But I also agree that if you are only going to ship once a week, it would probably be a good idea to mention it in your auctions, or at least in your EOA's.
And if would definately be a good idea to let the buyer know that you did receive payment, and, perhaps, the date that their item will be sent.
When you forward his emails to Safeharbor, be sure to point out the factual inaccuracies such as the payment date.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:32:33 PM
You would probably have avoided this whole mess if you'd only emailed him & *told* him that a) you'd received his PayPal payment, and b) the date you'd be mailing out his item (& the reason it would be sent out so long after payment received).
As it is, this seller was left hanging. He'd sent you money and then heard nothing from you.
The excuse that you sell too many items to send out confirmations is just that--an excuse. There are programs that you can use that will automatically send them out for you. Online auctions are way different fromRL business or even online business sites, for that matter. People are taking a chance on sending money to *individuals* (as opposed to corporations) and can be understandably nervous or touchy when they hear zip from the other end.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:52:48 PM
Yes, but when you pay via PayPal, you have a written record that you did send payment - it's irrefutable. So why should I send out a notice saying "I got your PayPal payment?" Of course I got it! I really don't have time to send out those kind of notices. However, I always try to reply to e-mails that have questions, and if someone e-mails me asking to confirm whether I got their PayPal payment I always send them an e-mail confirming that I did.
posted on September 21, 2000 12:57:14 PM
You must state in your auction TOS that you ONLY ship once a week.
This is VERY important!
Research claims large percentage of the items purchased at online e-tailers are by people who forgot a special date, and need a gift, pronto, like for an anniversary or a birthday. eBay is NOT a conventional e-tailer, afterall, eBay turns a profit, lol --- but, it is very important with alla strangers dealing with strangers to NOT leave any customer hanging.
You might wanna check out some of the automated emails offered to cyberauctioneers -- and each time you receive a payment, your customer would be notified once again, that the item would be shipped on the following Tuesday.
Last I read the FTC rules said items must be shipped within a month, but my memory is very hazy on this.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:04:47 PM
I just looked at the auction in question and while I do not believe that the buyer has a right to be abusive, I do believe that you need to state that you only ship once a week and I'd definitely give a quick email after receiving payment.
From looking at your feedback, I'd say you probably make most of your money off of shipping charges.
Yes, when you send payment via Paypal, you do have a record to show that it was sent.
But that does not mean that the seller realizes it was sent. Things can get "lost in the suffle".
I've also screwed up and sent payment to the wrong email address before. I've had customers do the same thing.
If you are going to wait up to one week to ship after receiving Paypal payment, not notifiying your buyers is absolutely asking for problems just like this.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:12:02 PM
I have been handling PayPal payments in this manner for a long time. This is the first time I have ever had someone fly off the handle like this.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:12:28 PMmboyko:Yes, but when you pay via PayPal, you have a written record that you did send payment - it's irrefutable. So why should I send out a notice saying "I got your PayPal payment?" Of course I got it!
There is no "of course" about it. There have been numerous threads here on AW concerning PayPal payments sent which for one reason or another (usually wrong email addy used) did *not* appear in the seller's account. By sending a quick email you let the buyer know that you indeed got the payment.
Communication is the name of the game in online auctions, AFAIC. Almost all hassles can be avoided if you just take the time to communicate with a buyer. "I don't have the time" is a cop-out. Use an automated program to do it for you. Or hire someone to do it for you if you are so successful & busy.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:21:22 PM
I was under the impression that if a PayPal payment is sent to the wrong e-mail address, it will show up as "unclaimed" in PayPal account of the sender. That is notification that the seller didn't receive the payment. Am I wrong?
posted on September 21, 2000 01:31:10 PM
I don't know if that is correct or not. But even if it is, you are assuming that your customer knows that.
In fact, it's quite possible that your customer has no idea how Paypal works from the sellers end. I don't think it's good business sense to assume that they do.
Even though this is your first problem, it's still a problem that could have been avoided with a little communication.
Even your customers who didn't complain were probably not too comfortable with sending payment via Paypal then not receiving any aknowledgement, thanks, or most importantly, product for up to 10 days or more.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:44:09 PM
I don't think anyone is trying to say it's all your fault. They could probably put it nicer, but I think they're trying to tell ou how you could potentially avoid similar problems in the future. Your buyer is totally out of line and as far as I'm concerned a little psycho to boot. No matter what you did he sounds like he would have found fault with it. Going forward try to be a little more customer service oriented. I know it takes more time but in the long run it's worth it.
posted on September 21, 2000 02:39:24 PM
Despite what the seller "could" have done or "would" have done, there is no excuse for this kind of abuse. Forward his email to SafeHarbor, leave negative feedback, and then block further emails from his address.
I am dealing with a similar looney tunes customer right now. I mailed an item on 9/11, and on 9/19 I got an email saying the package didn't arrive. I told the customer if the item hadn't arrived within 30 days I would send an insurance claim and refund his money. He responded with a threat that if I didn't deposit money in his PP account within 24 hours, he would contact federal authorities. First he claimed to be a lawyer, then a fraud investigator. Yeah, right. He has sent harassing emails from at least four different email accounts.
Funny thing, this so-called fraud investigator is a total idiot. He sent me a copy of my "profile" including a username at eBay that I changed months ago, and a street address from about six years ago. He's got all my info - he bid in my auction and sent me payment - but his "investigation" turned up all the wrong results. What a moron.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:02:21 PM
I've gotten jerky emails from A-types like this. Instead of reacting defensively, I always make sure I answer them politely and apologize profusely, even though I'm mumbling under my breath while typing the reply. It always diffuses the situation. You never know if the guy is a psycho or just has too much caffeine. Sometimes they even apologize for flying off the handle.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:13:13 PM
I gotta tell you I post in my auctions I ship Tuesdays and Thursdays. Do you really think anybody reads this. As big as I put it I still get people who think that the item should be ship the same day as a paypal payment or before their money order even gets to my house. Really a pain when you ship really fast anyway. Fact is even if they pay you thru paypal in actuallity you don't really get their money for 3-5 days anyway.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:25:22 PM
I would try to make time to let customers know that you 1.Received Payment 2. Shipped item. I use Andale, but you can write a "form e-mail" to send upon receipt of payment and to reiterate your shipping schedule. I know a lot of you good folks are totaly against Andale type services, but I feel as a buyer and seller, that I would rather recieve an automated "I got your payment or I shipped your item" email than no notice at all.
I personally would be crushed to recieve this type of email from someone- relishing in the thought of you being raped in prison?? That is one ANGRY human being. I mean, come on!
