posted on September 22, 2000 06:30:49 AM
I don't get ticked off anymore when someone lies to me. Hey we had eight years of non-stop prevarication in Washington and people STILL believe these guys.
However, I really wonder why a seller or bidder might think they can put one over on you. I had an auction close 9/4. After a second reminder, I hear from the bidder 9/8.
No payment shows. So last week I filed an NPB and of course I get an email saying they sent payment on 9/8 and they didn't hear anything from me (like I am supposed to nursemaid my bidders) and would it be ok if they sent another check if I hadn't gotten it in another week. I told the guy that he ought to send out another payment and not wait--I'd let him know if I were to receive a duplicate. I file FVF in 10 days without exception.
I received payment yesterday. Check dated 9/8. Good. Letter dated 9/8. Good. Just like he said. Postmark dated...9/19 Say what!?! Sure he "sent" payment on "9/8"...right!
How about a neutral saying CLOSE 9/4 "SENT" 9/8 NPALERT 9/19 POSTMARK 9/19?
posted on September 22, 2000 06:37:53 AM
That's happened to me too, only I was the 'bad guy'! In my case, my 21 year old son was in the hospital and I asked my 23 year old son to mail the money order. Of course, it sat in his car a week before it made it to a mailbox
Maybe something similar happened with your auction. Bottom line - In your case, you got the money ... eventually. Why post a neg or something that could stir up bad feelings?
posted on September 22, 2000 06:58:46 AM
As a fellow seller I'd be grateful if you DID warn me against this sort of shenaningans - which I've experienced myself. I'd say the bidder's the one who's "stirred up bad feelings" here.
posted on September 22, 2000 07:05:18 AM
It's a good possibility that the letter didn't actually get postmarked until the 19th. Some time back, I sent an item to a bidder in New York. I emailed her and let her know it was the way then ten days letter
receive an email stating that she never received the item. Unfortunately, I had not sent the item with delivery confirmation. So, being that I could tell she was being sincere in her not receiving the item, I mailed another one immediately and just cut my losses. Then one day I receive an email: she had received the first item one month after I mailed it. Funny thing was, it was postmarked only two weeks before. Actually postmarked AFTER the mailing of the second item! I assume what happened is I dropped it off and it got misguided and set until someone discovered, postmarked it and mailed it.
Although she offered to send one back, I let my bidder keep both for her time and trouble. Told her to use it as a Christmas gift!
P.S. Let me just say that I have the BEST postal employees in the world!! This was simply one of those screwy little mishaps that occur from time to time.
posted on September 22, 2000 07:10:56 AM
I can understand being irked. I advise against the neutral based on some late paid auctions I've had. One very late payment came from a bidder that went on to become my #1 repeat customer. I mean this guy bid ridiculous amounts on everything at one point. You've nothing to gain with the neutral feedback. The postmark validates the fact they didn't tell the truth, but it's not what I'd call a major offense.
I'm a bit too forgiving so you might take that into consideration.
posted on September 22, 2000 07:16:46 AM
mballai...if you sell magic, I know your bidder. I got into same type deal where it was always in the mail and this was a multiple buyer. I finally got tired of dealing with him. Last auction he was notified for non-payment and item clearly states that transaction must be completed within 10 days. (Stated so because of him as most buyers are no problem!) No response so I cut my losses and relist. The day I relist he sends a high priority e-mail stating he hadn't heard from me and wanted to be sure I sent the check. About a week later, I receive the check dated the same day I relisted the ad.(Surprise) Duh?
Before the question arise, I got tired of him when he owed me for 2 months on 22 auctions because he was "out of town" but still bidding and buying. He is now NARU.
On the other side of the coin, I had a woman who stated she sent the letter and never arrived so she fed-ex another check and the day it arrives so does the original one. But that was just strange transaction all over like it was jinxed but it was a super nice customer!
[ edited by texas1958 on Sep 22, 2000 07:20 AM ]
[ edited by texas1958 on Sep 22, 2000 07:22 AM ]
posted on September 22, 2000 07:22:41 AM
Postmark dates are considered pretty good evidence, so I just don't buy a postal snafu here. I don't necessarily want to ding the guy--I just think that people who are out of line really would be better off admitting to the fact then trying to cover it up. If you screw up, 'fess up! Or is it o.k. to lie about it as long as you make good on payment?
posted on September 22, 2000 08:12:00 AM
mballai claims, "Postmark dates are considered pretty good evidence, so I just don't buy a postal snafu here."
~ ~ ~ ~
Huh?
On what FACTS do you state that?
You ever heard of LOST mail?
Familiar with DAMAGED mail?
Ever seen a dead letter office?
Ever gone to a USPS Auction - where all that unclaimed merchandise from the lost/damaged mails ends up?
posted on September 22, 2000 09:03:08 AM
OK, then can you explain why someone would go through the bother of writing a cheque and a letter, dating them both, then waiting a week to mail it? If you believe this wasn't an error, and that your buyer purposely misdated the cheque and letter, I see a bit of paranoia sneaking in here.
posted on September 22, 2000 09:08:10 AM
I dont' think a negative is warranted you were paid... eventually. you could leave a postive saying payment received with one week delay (or whatever) email communications good. thanks.
then leave it... so what? if they paid you AND communciated you are far better off than those forced to jump the hoops for credits and file NPB.
as to warning other sellers all you do is increase your chances of retalitory neg or neutral. Most sellers don't read bidders feedback unless there is problem. In case of NPB all a seller needs to do is set their time frame of how to handle each step. When to send 2nd notice and when to fiel for credit etc.
If you are so uncomfortable that you wouldn't want bidder ot bid again then send them a letter of notice not to bid with copy to ebay and explanation of why.
posted on September 22, 2000 09:13:47 AM
mballai: I've had so many checks delivered in plastic sacks, their contents shredded - but before they were sent my way, they aged for weeks at damaged mail centers.
I also know that when the customer has given me the wrong zipcode, that the package just sits at the wrong zipcode USPS, until I file a LOST MAIL form, which in my experience has located the parcel seemingly instantaneously and delivered within 48 hours.
Now....... I offer the above, simply to point out, especially to lurkers that neither sellers nor bidders have ANY control over the vaguries that often arise conducting a mail order business.
You stated in your fist post that you no longer get ticked off when someone LIES to you.
Well, this messagethread seems to contradict that first statement.
I do NOT mention this to be confrontational, but rather to point out that currently, AUCTION SABOTAGE of all sortsa kinds can take place online, but only a legal investigation can prove same; meantime, it behooves sellers to develop a true authentic sense of dispassion towards these shennanigans -- because, imo, the stress ain't worth it.
Also, I've had reallll interesting chats long distance with some of my bidders, and was pleasantly surprised to learn they were simply very CONFUSED by the entire online auction process, and were NOT intentionally, not even unintentionally trying to be disruptive to my eBiz.
Now, that all said, YOU, mballai, go with your gut feeling about what is occuring on your specific transaction, as alla the commentary from these messageboards is speculative, at best.
posted on September 22, 2000 12:07:59 PM
Why does anyone need to save face on a screw up. If they forgot to mail the darn thing, they join the rest of the human race. There's no shame in making a mistake, there is when you try and cover it up.
posted on September 22, 2000 01:01:47 PM
mballai ... based on your info, it doesn't appear to me that this buyer was trying to dodge his/her error. Rather, it appears as though s/he honestly thought the cheque and letter had been mailed on the day they were dated.
Is there, perhaps, something that you have left out here? As it stands right now, it doesn't look like anyone 'lied' to you. I cannot feel sorry for you, nor would I recommend a neutral or a negative FB. If you have a problem with that, why not post no FB at all?
posted on September 22, 2000 01:34:03 PM
RB
They said they did something, but they obviously didn't, if it was an error they should fess up. I had several customers who realized they were behind the eight ball and they had no problem keeping me informed.
I am not looking for sympathy RB. I am talking about how people think they can pull a fast one.
Like I said at the beginning, I am used to people lying. However there is absolutely no excuse for it here (or anywhere else) and that it is a genuine insult because the lie is transparent.
If other sellers enjoy being treated that way and blow it off, they deserve it.
posted on September 22, 2000 01:45:20 PM
In the 2 or 3 incidents like this I've experienced, bidder claims he sent payment days/weeks ago, yet the postmark is always identical to the date that I emailed my "What's up?" message to bidder.
posted on September 22, 2000 02:01:22 PM"If other sellers enjoy being treated that way and blow it off, they deserve it."
I wouldn't say I enjoy being lied to as to when payment was sent, but when it really doesn't matter in the long run why should I get upset after the payment arrives?
posted on September 22, 2000 02:37:35 PM
I'm sure plenty of sellers seriously are oblivious to this entire scenario, as they realize full well that they have no control over other people's behavior, and are doing eBay to grow this business -- NOT to make global generalizations, psuedo-morality judgments how the state of the world is due to somebody sending in a late payment and not CONFESSING that they are a vile bad nasty sinner who is responsible for the sins of the world.
It sounds to me like someone is in need of a short vacation from selling.
Just a question....Why post a message on this board if you will not take the advice of fellow sellers and buyer? I assume that's what you were looking for, advice. Your last line stated "How about a neutral...". More than half the people say you may need to mellow out and don't worry about it, do you think they may have a point? Do you really want to get into a ethical, integrity debate about: 1) A person you don't know 2) a situation where you have YOUR side of the story. I think it would be wise not to. If you can tie this subject, a person sending a late payment, into a presidential embarrasment, you may need to take some time away from Ebay. I would leave a positive feedback with "a little slow on the payment" type ring to it. You can still give someone the credit of paying in this "trusting" business of ours and not ruin their reputation. Just some advice....I think you asked for it.
posted on September 22, 2000 04:20:25 PM
"Why post a message on this board if you will not take the advice"
Only if the advice applies and doesn't create
excuses where evidence is lacking...
"NOT to make global generalizations, psuedo-morality judgments"
I appear to be getting more generalizations here than giving them. I am not making judgements. I am simply not going to mince words in calling a lie a lie.
If someone wrote a false auction description, you'd be all over him crying "Neg!" The seller lied. Oh I'm sorry...he must not have known...let's give him a break to give a refund...maybe the computer wasn't recording his keystrokes correctly...or....
My whole point is that he did lie, certainly didn't need to, and did a crummy job of it.
Yet a lot of you bought his lie at top dollar and seem mighty content to live with it.
No wonder they pull this stuff as often as they do. You've answered my question. Thanks!
posted on September 22, 2000 04:41:22 PM
You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, and a very calm existence since you state, "Yet a lot of you bought his lie at top dollar and seem mighty content to live with it."
~ ~ ~
I have far greater priorities in my life than participating in emotional value judgments about my customers, those who happen to remit a payment late.
One of the unfortunate things about selling on eBay, and yet paradoxically the best thing about being a seller on eBay is that each seller is free to set his/her TOS.
I assume that most of my customers lead very busy hectic lives, as I sell to many professionals.
I presume that payment for my auction is NOT the number one priority in their lives - but, I realize there are thousands of cyberauctioneers who are regularly scaring off online purchases by their very weird TOS and their insistence to *punish* paying customers with negative feedbacks, because these humans do not happen to follow the obsessive-compulsive peculiarities of such control freaks.
ecommerce is in its infancy, and will remain so, for a long long time, until the psychological maturity level of its participants catches up.
posted on September 22, 2000 05:33:53 PM
I am not making "emotional value judgments about my customers" I could also care less if a payment is a bit late. But your mind is made up.
Read the first post on this thread if you dare...the guy was already late responding. He needed to be reminded to respond. He then didn't pay until he got an NPB alert but thought he could lie his way around it.
There's a pattern here, but apparently it's way too obvious to way too few...
