shaani
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posted on September 22, 2000 10:48:28 AM
Yesterday I received a glass piece that I had bid on. It has a deep scratch or factory flaw almost 3/4 of the way across the interior. This was not mentioned in the listing. When I e-mailed the seller this was her response:
"I do remember the flaw, but it is definitely a factory flaw, so I never even thought to mention it. What tends to happen on items of under $10.00 is that sellers tend to not spend tons of time listing every possible detail because the cost in time alone would outweigh the cost of the item. It had 2 bids, one of XXXamount and one of XXX amount so I am not sure of how that would have affected your bidding."
My response to her is that I would not have bid at all if I had known about the defect. I told her that I also sell and I think that all flaws should be mentioned, whether an item sells for $1.00 or $1000.00. I told her that once an item is listed the bidders decide on the final price. She did not reply or even apologize. I have the feeling that I am just another "whining buyer" to her. She presently has about 75 auctions with the starting price of under $10.00 so am I to assume that all of these pieces also have defects?
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RainyBear
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posted on September 22, 2000 10:54:52 AM
Never thought to mention a factory flaw, especially a large one? Then her description was inadequate. What kind of feedback are you going to leave?
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llama_lady
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posted on September 22, 2000 11:05:45 AM
That seller was definitely making a hasty generalization. I don't know who the seller is, but please Ms seller do not lump me in your pile. (her comment - sellers selling low cost items don't state all flaws) Once in a while a tiny flaw may pass by (we are all human), but a flaw she knew (regardless if a factory flaw - which old glass has a bunch) about should have been described regardless how low the opening bid was. Frankly as a buyer, I would want her to refund my money with shipping (both ways) because of her misrepresentation of the product. (how did she describe the condition?) As a seller, (1) I wouldn't have left it off purposely, but (2) if I missed it, (even big flaws sometimes aren't seen especially on glass) you wouldn't have to ask for your money back, I would have refunded it with shipping both ways.
[ edited by llama_lady on Sep 22, 2000 11:06 AM ]
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richel
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posted on September 22, 2000 11:07:11 AM
i bought a widget that was described as perfect, but when i got it, it was cracked nearly in half. in addition, there was other damage that was obviously old because the edges were yellowed with age and not the clean white of the big crack. the seller replied to my e-mail that she thought it was perfect, but that she missed it and would refund me and pay for postage to ship it back to her. should i hold my breath?
 uh huh. that's what i thought!
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shaani
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posted on September 22, 2000 11:57:55 AM
The glass was described with color and style only. The flaw did not show in the picture. I requested a refund but I have not heard back from her.
I have several ID's and I have purchased items all summer on this ID so I can build feedback as I wish to use it for selling a certain product next month. I already have one neutral because I left honest feedback to one seller for damaged items and dirty packaging. I have two more neutrals that I would like to leave but I also think the sellers will retaliate if I do. If I leave a negative to this seller I have a feeling she will also do the same to me (based on her past record). So I have to make the decision whether I "protect" my good feedback and let these sellers slip by and continue their shoddy selling or to post feedback for them.
I have purchased about 100 items this summer and most sellers have been very good.
[ edited by shaani on Sep 22, 2000 12:03 PM ]
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on September 22, 2000 12:45:41 PM
shaani-
This post isn't meant to single you out (Honest!!! Many others have made the same point as you in the past), but it's hard to miss the irony in the following:
So I have to make the decision whether I "protect" my good feedback and let these sellers slip by and continue their shoddy selling or to post feedback for them.
If the buyer doesn't post appropriate feedback for the seller in an attempt to "protect" their good feedback from retaliation, shoddy sellers are not recognized for their poor performance, which in turn devalues the very feedback system the buyer is trying to utilize in their favor.
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mballai
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posted on September 22, 2000 12:50:19 PM
I'd leave one id for buying only if you are worried about it. I use one ID just 'cause I prefer to keep things simple.
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shaani
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posted on September 22, 2000 01:10:32 PM
I know what you are saying. My problem is that I built this ID to sell with and now it may be hammered with neutrals and negatives all at one time. So maybe I will just use it to buy with after all and "tell it like it is". I agree that too many shoddy sellers seem to slip by because bidders (me included) have been afraid of the retaliation. I have left neutrals and negatives before. I am by no means a picky buyer but I do expect items to be described accurately and packaged properly.
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costa
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posted on September 24, 2000 05:05:20 PM
Use a second ID for buying.
NEg'Em, Neg'Em, neg'Em
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dman3
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posted on September 24, 2000 05:29:42 PM
I always put in even factory flaws I find on my glass sales.
many times these flaws add to the over all value in some cases since reproduction are usually near perfection so some times flaws are proof of the time they were made like cheaply made carnival glass often had flaws the newer stuff they use better methods and higher quality control less flaws leave the factory.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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shaani
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posted on September 24, 2000 05:30:40 PM
I did hear back from her but she still insists she has done nothing wrong. She says:
"You can criticize the logic all you want, but there is not one business person in the world who would spend more time to list the auction than the item is actually worth. A flaw is a flaw, not damage."
My "logic" is that she has about 70 auctions running with the starting bid under $10 and is the buyer to assume that these pieces may also have damage or flaws? I maintain that the buyer controls the final bid price after it is listed and that all damage and flaws should be stated, no matter what the item sells for or what the seller thinks it is worth at the time they list it.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 24, 2000 05:49:11 PM
Well if she doesn't refund then neg her and move on.
Let her explain in the response why she refused to offer you a refund for "misrepresented" item.
Ain't Life Grand... 
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barbarake
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posted on September 24, 2000 06:07:51 PM
Why don't you invite the seller here? I'd be interested in hearing her response.
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paulstar
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posted on September 24, 2000 06:36:11 PM
Paper collectible sellers are some of the worst! They will often refer to an old paper item as being in GREAT SHAPE....for it's age!
How about leaving the editiorializing the newspapers! Just tell me what's wrong with the damn thing!
No disclaimers, no qualifiers, no vague references. Just tell me what's wrong with it, that's all.
I actually had a seller say an item had NO rips, only to find out it did. When I subsequently RETURNED the item based on this misrepresentation, the seller, who did return my money (minus postage) had the nerve to point out that the rip was only 1 inch long, not 1 3/4 as I had said.
Silly me.
[ edited by paulstar on Sep 24, 2000 06:42 PM ]
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shaani
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posted on September 24, 2000 09:10:14 PM
When I requested a refund this seller told me: "So if you care to be more polite in your future e-mail, I MIGHT consider crediting a SMALL portion of your bid."
This credit will be towards my next purchase. I thought that I was polite when I e-mailed her about the "logic" but maybe she sees it another way.
She already has 6 neutrals and 5 negatives. I told her that I do not wish to pursue this as I really do not want to do any future business with her. And I do think I will leave a negative.
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fountainhouse
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posted on September 24, 2000 09:15:20 PM
I'm curious -- what was the item? You mention that the flaw is on the inside of the piece; is it a bowl, or something like a vase? How long, exactly, is the flaw?
I mean, are we talking about a straw mark (factory-made) on the inside of a vase ... or a (post-production) scratch on the inside of a bowl?
There's a big difference in these scenarios, IMO. If you've got a console bowl with a large scratch right in the center, the seller needs an education that only a properly-worded neg can provide. Even if it's a genuine factory flaw (i.e. straw mark), it most definitely should have been disclosed on such a display piece.
If, though, this is a vase or other narrow-mouthed vessel that you'd need a periscope to inspect the interior, then I'd have to say the seller's done her job.
Edited to add that it would be very interesting to speak to the seller directly on this one -- why not invite her?
[ edited by fountainhouse on Sep 24, 2000 09:18 PM ]
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shaani
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posted on September 24, 2000 09:25:57 PM
This is a bowl. The scratch is deep enough to put my fingernail in and it goes 3/4 of the way across the interior. It may have been done at the factory after the piece was made as it looks too deep for a straw mark but yes, it could be a straw mark. The first thing one sees when they look at the bowl is the scratch as the light catches it each time.
The seller admits that she saw the flaw but her theory is that it was listed for under $10 so it would take too much time to mention it.
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fountainhouse
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posted on September 24, 2000 09:36:01 PM
Sheesh. Sounds like a seller who's depending on volume to meet her sales quotas each week. Nothing wrong with that, BTW, but only if one takes the few extra seconds to describe all flaws, not just those one deems worthy of mention.
Have you thought of inviting her to the thread? Sounds like you've decided to neg her, so you have nothing to lose.
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CleverGIrl
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posted on September 24, 2000 09:49:03 PM
This is a great discussion.
Shaani, I'm with ya all the way. Come buy from me <g>. I'm curious -- what is her overall feedback rating?
Manufacturing flaws definitely should be included -- else the implied condition is that there are none. Simple. AND, if it's collectible anythings she's selling, some buyers are fussy and want MINT condition. Others aren't so much so. But ALL buyers deserve the choice on weather they're bidding mint or something less.
The business about making an inspection taking too much time is baloney. If she feels this way about it, she needs to find some other category to sell in on ebay -- one that requires no condition descriptions.
Regrettably, I've had my share of the type of experience you've described -- and do everything in my power to be the kind of Seller that keeps ebay fun and rewarding for all involved. But not everybody sees it that way.
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shaani
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posted on September 24, 2000 10:17:46 PM
Some people on auctionwatch know me but I do want to maintain a certain anonymity so I do not wish to invite her here.
I purchased two items from her. The other one mentioned inside crazing but it went through to the outside in brown marks in one area and the exterior was also crazed. It is decorative and I can live with it though it should have been described better also. I looked at the auctions once again when I received the items and the pictures were still there but when I e-mailed her she immediately took the pictures down.
I take part responsibility for this as I sniped both auctions when I was searching closing auctions. There was no description as to the condition of the bowl and usually when I am interested in an item that does not mention the condition I e-mail and ask.
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