mustpar65
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posted on September 22, 2000 08:51:44 PM
I recently won an auction for an inexpensive, small item that had free shipping. When the seller's EOA email arrived they provided a toll-free phone number but no mail address. The EOA mentions that they accept PayPal but they do not give their PayPal email address. They do specifically state that the email address that the EOA comes from is NOT their PayPal address. I wrote back and asked for either their PayPal address or an address where I could mail the payment. They sent the phone number again. I wrote to ask why they required a phone call, no response. My question is, is it reasonable to require bidders to call? My objection is that they will harvest my phone number to sell to telemarkets and no doubt try to sell me other things when I call.
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mzalez
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posted on September 22, 2000 08:53:53 PM
Was the 'phone call only' mentioned in the ad? How strange. I would be irritated if I were in your shoes.
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mustpar65
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posted on September 22, 2000 08:58:37 PM
No there was no mention of the phone call only thing. I would not have bid if it said that.
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mzalez
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:09:16 PM
Probably you are right about it being a way to collect information, or to make a sales pitch for something else. Sounds fishy.
Maybe you can use the email address of the seller and make a PayPal payment anyway. Then you could email the seller and let them know you paid. See what happens then.
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uaru
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:10:23 PM
Call at 4am
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dman3
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:18:21 PM
Irritated yes I might be too but many are running businesses if you have a fear they might collect your number to sell dont most marketers dont buy phone numbers  they hand out a sheet of paper to help with one exchange and go though all the number combos for that exchange.
I use to do tel marketing I get a paper say
exchange 270 I dail 270-0011 , 0012, 0013 and on and on untill I get a live one on the phone to pitch too cross off numbers that dont work so they are removed for the next guy who uses it and under line ones you made no sales at this time. the list will be used for up to a week then not come up again for about a month.if you ask to be removed they have to cross your number off in most state by law.
thats how marketers end up calling all kinds of privite and unlisted numbers. many times 6 of 10 number were valid sometimes of them a few would be businesses or residence.
Maybe this seller does want to try and sell you something else maybe they are just playing over safe not wanting to give out a paypal email address online who knows either way the number they gave you is toll free
most full timers are out there to make money many dont make all there money on Ebay its just a gateway to there sales catalog or other things they sell and there is no harm in trying to sell or make money.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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RainyBear
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:29:04 PM
Well... at least it's toll free. I'll be interested to hear what they say if/when you call.
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mustpar65
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:29:47 PM
dman3
I've been in sales my whole life. A lead that is just an address is not as valuable as a lead with a phone, a lead with a phone number and info on what they have bought previously is even more valuable. A lead where the caller has been put thru a mini-interview when they called in is worth even more. I think that's what is going on here. Sell the item at cost then make a profit selling "pre-qualified leads". Sure you can cold call people at random or buy leads from any number of sources. But this will generate fresh "hot" leads of people who will have an ebay buying profile. The critical part for them is getting the phone numbers for telemarketing. Either that or the guy is just a dufus making more work for himself.
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mustpar65
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posted on September 22, 2000 09:31:44 PM
RainyBear
That's WHY it's toll-free. You can't use caller ID blocking on a toll-free number.
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kellyb1
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posted on September 22, 2000 10:14:01 PM
A don't believe a seller can require you to call, if they did not state it in the auction. According to ebay rules, you have contacted the seller and asked for an address to send payment. They insist you call. There are many people who are deaf, and can not use the phone. There are people who have had throat cancer and can not use the phone.
The seller has a different addy for paypal? I would never send a seller payment through paypal unless the seller used the same address. The seller can have as many addy's added to the paypal account.
I would refuse to call. Send an email that if you do not receive an addy to send payment, you will have no choice but to report the seller for fraud since you have met your end of the obligation as defined by ebay, but the seller has not. Let the seller know that you will report them to ebay and to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center, which was created in part, by the FBI. The addy is https://www.ifccfbi.gov/
Be sure to give them the addy. This worked for me on a seller who wouldn't send me two items that were worth about $15.00.
It sounds like the seller may be using the 800 number to collect phone numbers of bidders so that they may call in the future, sell your number, etc.
What a way to get around the Ebay user ID request. The seller gets your number to use in the future for tell. marketing, and it can't be traced back to the seller's use of ebay.
You could even request the seller's user info. If the phone listed is a different number (and not an 800) you could call this number and caller id would not show your number.
Bottom Line: If the auction did not state you had to call the 800 number, then you don't.
Kelly
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kellyb1
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posted on September 22, 2000 10:15:03 PM
just thought of this: call from a pay phone.
Kelly
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Crystalline_Sliver
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:50:37 AM
Don't forget to use one of those collect call services while your at it!!
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
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mustpar65
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:57:27 AM
Kelly,
Good idea! I'll just call from a phone booth. I can't be certain that it's a scam but it sure seems like it. Why would they have people call a toll-free number which costs them a lot of money, when email is free?
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abacaxi
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posted on September 23, 2000 04:34:29 AM
mustpar -
800 numbers CAN show the caller, despite any call blocking.
If you are afraid of your phone number being harvested, call from a PAY PHONE, if they start a sales spiel hang up. Then call back and try again, saying "I must have had the wrong number, because I was buying a ____ and this telemarketer interrupted me with a sales spiel."
I would send ANOTHER email and tell them that since the pit-bull attack I have been unable to talk and won't be able to until after the reconstructive surgery. I would fill in all the gory details and tell how eBay has been such a godsend because I don't have to endure the stares and comments of the cruel public about my disfigurement and can buy from the privacy of my home as if I were normal (I could get a whole soap opera's worth of angst in here).
Then I'd ask them if they are willing to wait until the series of surgeries are over in the summer of 2003 to complete the deal.
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sweil
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posted on September 23, 2000 05:08:02 AM
There could be a positive side to this if you have someone you deal with daily that you really dislike. See if you could use their phone to make the call. That way if it is a telemarketer, they will be getting this persons phone number. That way you get to purchase your item and this coworker/ neighbor or who ever it is gets to deal with the annoying telemarketers calling them all the time instead of you.
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radh
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posted on September 23, 2000 12:02:16 PM
I think that eBay should be officially notified about this.
THE TOS MUST BE IN THE AUCTION, ITSELF.
This is the 3rd instance I've heard of this nefarious practice.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on September 23, 2000 12:10:15 PM
Also not all 800, 888 and 877 are "toll-free." I am a seller but do occassionally do buy on eBay. I empathsize with you. Please be careful. Keep us up-to-date!
not bobbysoxer on eBay
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Libra63
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posted on September 23, 2000 01:03:29 PM
Quite interesting. Can you use that *63 or what ever that number is to block your number from the receiver getting it. If it was me I would just forget about it. If they want to sell their widget they will email you again, but can't you put a block on your email to stop them from emailing you and then they will have to pull your information from ebay and you will be notified when they do. Just when you think nothing else can happen something new comes around.
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amalgamated2000
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posted on September 23, 2000 01:14:08 PM
Have you checked the seller's feedback? I would be interested to know if other buyers have complained about this, and if so, whether the seller retalliated.
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chococake
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posted on September 23, 2000 01:14:34 PM
I most certainly would not call if it were me. I would send them another email stating if I did not get an address I would cancel my bid, give them a neg and explain why, and notify eBay. That's it no futher communication with them.
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kellyb1
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posted on September 23, 2000 01:44:16 PM
"Also not all 800, 888 and 877 are "toll-free."
Bobbysoxer, I didn't know this? I will have to check with my phone company since I thought all 800 numbers were toll free. I was under the impression that only toll free calls could use the 800 numbers.
Kelly
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mustpar65
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:18:39 PM
Libra63
I think part of the deal when you call an 800 number is they get your phone number even if you use caller ID blocking.
I sent another email asking for an address, so far no response. They say in their EOA email to call "so they can give out an order number". Like that can't be done by email. Their feedback is generally good but 1 neg this week for "Not contacting after sale". Also a comment within a pos about "unusual ordering process". Why should there even be an "Ordering Process"? They give me their address I send them the money. The more I think about it, it's a pretty clever scheme for generating leads. It's not illegal and probably not even against eBay's rules b/c they never thought of this. A lead with name, address, phone number, email and recent buying history (from ebay) can be sold for good money to spammers, telemarketers and direct mail types.
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ascorti
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:28:13 PM
How about inviting the seller, so we can bash him over this, I MEAN, discuss it with him....
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dman3
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:42:53 PM
mustpar65
I agree with you info is more valuble with a phone number buy most well informed buyer wont call from home.
and this buyer is now more well armed and well informed then most
My point was that marketers dont have to buy numbers at all they have banks of phones with people each dailing numbers for a different exchange.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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amalgamated2000
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posted on September 23, 2000 02:57:11 PM
Here's a thread from just a couple of weeks ago dealing with this same problem. In fact, it sounds like it might be the same seller.
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&id=253451&thread=251264
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mustpar65
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posted on September 23, 2000 03:18:14 PM
amalgamated2000
Yes, it is in fact the same seller.
dman3
But Cold Calling isn't nearly as effective as calling qualified leads. For instance, if you are selling hard drives and you cold call you'll reach a lot of people who don't own computers and don't need hard drives. But if you call only people who own computers your success ratio will be much higher. That's why this seller is operating on eBay, so they can profile the leads.
[ edited by mustpar65 on Sep 23, 2000 03:25 PM ]
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bobbysoxer
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posted on September 23, 2000 03:46:02 PM
kelly
if you ever notice the pyscho...I mean physic hotlines the first three minutes are free but after that they charge an arm and a leg.
About eight years ago I fell for a sweepstakes gimick. I called the toll-free number and the message told me that if I wanted more info (they conveniently led me on) that I was to push a button on my phone to say yes. I thought that I would stay on under the three minutes, not to be charged for much. Under the three minutes I found out what I wanted to know. I received a bill >not from my phone company BTW< for $11.00.
I paid it figuring I learned a lesson. About two years later I received a check from this company for the $11. Apparently my State Attorney office made them reimburse everyone in the state.
But in some cases the company baits you on to accept the long distance charge (like a carrot or whatever) instead of the "toll-free."
Personally I would tell the seller to fly a kite but that is me...everyone is different.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
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dc9a320
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posted on September 23, 2000 07:08:57 PM
Yikes, another mine in the field.
Yes, I agree this sounds like a way of generating warm or hot sales leads for telemarketing (these leads are more desirable for direct marketers than cold calling).
In the other thread, notice they're willing to skip the sale with no reprocussions. This hints at the same "loss leader" process that those cheesy ads for "not sold in stores" merchandise. IMO, it's more about direct marketers finding who is willing to buy under "cheesy" circumstances. Some of these TV ads have shown their true colors lately, outright stating you'll be enrolled in some buying "club" or another.
My first reply would be to request their address to pay at, out of surprise that it wasn't provided, and my second reply would be to tell them in no uncertain terms that I do not give out my phone number online due to concerns over unwanted direct marketing. If that's what they're doing, they'll probably realize I'm on to them.
Interesting that calling a toll-free number will reveal the caller's phone number whether or not they were blocking Caller ID. I did not know that.
I'd take a negative before calling this seller, would neg them back, and would report this to eBay/Safeharbor.
Don't get me started on the so-called "psychics." Three interesting bits about them (besides the obvious scam nature, IMO, of the this funny-business):
1) That "ten free minutes" is often one free minute in each of ten calls, not ten minutes in the first call.
2) The "psychics" are often fronted by phone companies. Some "psychics" even state (in very fine print) that to get a "reading," your phone service company must be changed! I would recommend signing an "anti-slamming" statement before your teen or a guest gets your service slammed.
3) If connected to a phone company, the "psychic" probably has access to a good chunk of data about you already. (The rest is good knowledge of human nature, slick and subtle twenty questions, and other non-paranormal tools and tricks. )
There are plenty of people looking to prey on other people, in obvious or subtle ways. Direct marketers and "psychics" don't like the underpinings of their methods known.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
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onlymyidhere
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posted on September 23, 2000 07:37:33 PM
Yes, call from a pay phone. When they answer say "this is a recorded line" and that may put them on their best behavior. For that matter record it, too.
on the 800, etc. not being toll-free. Yes, you press 1 to continue and they take that as your permission to forward your call to a 900 or other such toll number.
When you get the bill, tell the phone co you got scammed and won't pay. They'll take it off your bill and tell the scammer you won't pay.
Then it's between you and the scammers. It's happened to me and I never heard a word.
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jsamuel
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posted on September 24, 2000 06:00:45 AM
I recently had the same experience with three auctions that I won - all for digitial camera accessories. I wrote back to all three saying that calling them was not convenient to me and that if they sent me their address, I'd immediately sent payment.
Two of the three sent me their address and I had money orders on the way the next day. The third absolutely refused to give me a mailing address. The guy called me on the phone and said that his business policies require him to do everything over the phone (No, none of that was mentioned in his ad).
When I told him I would not do business that way, he then offered to cancel the auction if I'd agree not to give him negative feedback.
At that point, I thought he was too shady to do business with so I agreed.
I just don't get it.
Jim
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