I recently had an auction pulled of from eBay. I described a set
of dishes as "Fiesta Like" since they are in
the Fiesta line & was notified that this is a method of spamming.
If they are not actually Fiesta then you cannot use that name.
I have written to eBay concerning this and
have not gotten a reply.
posted on September 29, 2000 07:23:54 AM new
From their policy:
>> Key word spamming is unfair to members who may be searching for a specific item and receive search engine results of listings which are not selling the item. <<
I can understand that reasoning behind the policy, but I also think the policy itself is poorly conceived and executed, and that SURELY they could do better (sigh, as with so many other things on ebay!). And probably the example that started this thread illustrates my point. I don't know how you'd describe a Fiesta-like item except with those terms, or some terms equally against ebay's rule. The only alternative I can think of would be not to sell such items, and that doesn't seem fair to me either.
Are there abuses of key words? No doubt, especially judging from the examples they gave. But IMO it severely limits Sellers' REASONABLE ability to describe the items they have for sale.
If I were a Fiesta collector (perhaps esp. if I had the newer line), I might be very interested in something that would stylistically go with my dinnerware. What chance would I have to know about this item were it not for a title that clued me in?
Unfortunately, it would take a VALUE JUDGMENT to be able to determine whether a title or description is INTENDED as keyword spamming (and therefore violates the rule) -- something beyond the ken of ebay staff, I'm afraid.
posted on September 29, 2000 07:59:22 AM new
I'm sure that if you were a Fiesta collector/seller, you would be frustrated with searching for items only to find Hundreds of Items that are "not Fiesta" "like Fiesta" "reminds me of Fiesta" etc.. etc...
The problem isn't one or two auctions with "like Fiesta" .. if it was allowed to continue, you would see HUNDREDS of items trying to capitalize on the name Fiesta, making search useless.
I try to think of what would happen if things were allowed and "everyone" did it...
It makes it easier to understand the logic of it all.
By the way, the title seems to be the key.. if you describe it in the body of the text as like Fiesta, I think eBay allows a one time comparison.
posted on September 29, 2000 08:11:10 AM new
From ebay's rule on KWS: "for the purpose of attracting or diverting bidders to a listing"
So if you are selling a Fiesta dish, and want to attract Fiesta collectors to your listing, and you actually use the keyword Fiesta, under their rule you are gulty of keyword spamming.
Clevergirl is right, it is poorly written and executed.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:10:09 AM new
Just to clarify, you MAY use a single comparison in the description ONLY, e.g. "This set of dishes looks very much like Fiesta ware.." or referring to an item as "Fiesta style" or "Fiesta-like". That way, bidders can exclude these items from the search by doing a title search only.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:43:41 AM new
While I can understand ebay's attempts to appease the users who vocalize their objections to being "spammed" by sellers who use comparison as a way to describe their object, this subject isn't as cut-and-dry as some would proclaim.
Innumerable objects are accurately described as being "Fiesta-like," or "Hummel-like," etc. Further, they are correctly described thus, inasmuch as were the object NOT "Fiesta-like" or "Hummel-like," the object would be valueless.
One example that comes to mind are the "Hummel-like" figurines produced in Japan during the 50s. Many people collect these figurines, some to complement their Hummel collection, some because they can't afford a large collection of Hummels, some because they just like them.
All, however, collect them because they are "Hummel-like." Remove that resemblance and the figurines have little, if any, collectibility.
Now, I understand that a purist Hummel collector may become annoyed with his searches producing a list that includes some of the other lowly figures. But what about the collector who WANTS them?
Do the needs/desires of the purist take precedence? Of course not. Yet, by removing a seller's ability to accurately describe these figures, ebay has effectively removed the collector's ability to find and buy them.
As I said, there are countless other objects in the antiques/collectibles categories that fall into this gaping crack in ebay's one-size-fits-all TOS, illustrating that intelligent discussions on this subject require a working knowledge of many selling categories.
Which, as someone already pointed out, is in short supply in the ebay service boiler room.
posted on September 29, 2000 10:13:13 AM new
The problem comes from using a name that has certain protections and not just spamming. You might try F**sta-like. Or looks like the well-known and then describe whatever pattern the stuff imitates. Actually a picture in this case might say enough as long as you clarify that it is a copy.
posted on September 29, 2000 11:13:41 AM new
At one time it was required you put -(like,style) in a search for Rolex. It seemed any watch sold on eBay was 'like Rolex' by that they sometimes meant it had markers for 12 hours on the dial, just like Rolex.
posted on September 29, 2000 07:29:14 PM new
uaru - that was just too funny about the markers! I have noticed that all pottery lately "looks like Weller or Roseville". There really are times when I find it difficult to describe something without comparing, though.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:18:10 PM new
It's hard to know where to draw the line on this issue.
As an infrequent buyer , I tend to the " impulse " search , usually when researching an item I'm unsure of and going off on a tangent of interest. I see a lot of questionmarks in listings , e.g Lefton ? Napco ? Norcrest? , three china companies whose styles , especially in figurines , are similar , and if the labels are gone and the piece not backstamped...?
It is a costly burden for the eclectic seller to buy ID or price guides for every china/pottery company etc.. I must admit that I have sometimes felt grateful for the seller who likens items to each other , if I like that item . It is , after all , an impirical observation from the seller , and shows they are seeking /gaining knowledge , and indicates that rather than the " Ha-ha ..gotcha ", knowing bloody well what their item is . ( or isn't !!)
Conversely , when definitely seeking an antique , or designer etc. it is infuriating to wade through not Eames , or a bunch of hick outsider art or repro primitives , or groovy 70's ice-bucket. Eames e.g.
{b]Those[/b] people I want to go " tell the teacher " about . Not an attractive response.
posted on September 30, 2000 10:58:02 AM new
I buy vintage Fiesta ware on EBAY and I am always annoyed by "Fiesta like" listings that pop up. I want the real thing and not have to wade through people's opinions of whether a piece is "like" the real thing.
posted on September 30, 2000 11:14:30 AM newpkg: Excuse my confusion, but if "they are in the Fiesta line," doesn't that make them Fiesta? Usually, saying they are in a brand's line means they are part of the brand, like the Ford line comprises Explorers, Probes, etc. If so, why say Fiesta-like?
If not, then I would agree it's spamming under current rules. While I understand that some items are best described as like-Something, it does interfere with bidders' ability to find the actual Somethings.
However, it would be fairly easy to exclude the word "like" through a negative search term, e.g.:
fiesta -like
HOWEVER... many sellers would instead say "not," "resembles," or "similar to" -- so it really ends up being the same problem again. Too many things to exclude.
I've encountered the same problem with airliner stuff, believe it or not, and it gets annoying (and hard to exclude there too).
fountainhouse: If like-Hummels have value in themselves, wouldn't their brands be recognizable? Or are these all intentionally no-names or too many brands?
I don't have any problem with like-Something statements in descriptions, though. I expect -- and usually want -- to draw in a greater variety of items (including "like" items) when I search descriptions vs. just titles. (I'm not sure about eBay's rules on this point, that's just my feelings. )
Night and day difference here, IMO.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on September 30, 2000 11:37:01 AM new
I need to clarify what I just said above.
I mean I don't have any problem with like-Something statements if used sparingly when essential -- and then only in the description. If it only makes sense that a no-name figurine is widely known as being "like a Hummel," and has no separable identity of its own, then fine.
Similarly, if someone has a model airplane, but isn't sure if it is a DC-9 or something that looks similar, then the description can say exactly that ("This is a model airplane in excellent condition. I'm not sure what it is, but looks similar to a DC-9." ) The title, however, should just be "Model Airplane, 1:600 scale"
I would NOT, however, want to see someone listing a Megacar Jalopy as being like a Chevy, similar to a Ford, not a Saturn, reminds me of a Toyota. People could just start throwing in more words and even increasingly unrelated words into the description -- and this would be spamming too, IMO.
Of course, how is one going to make rules to say the difference here?
See what a can of worms this is?
I still stand by my opinion that eBay is right to disallow words like "like" in the title.
My second impression on the rest is that even in descriptions, this can be a problem too, unless used very sparingly.
I think I'll just shut up now.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
