posted on October 1, 2000 05:02:25 AM
Many of you know I was NARU'd by eBay for listing video tapes that they thought were copies. A current seller has several auctions running right now (getting MAJOR HIGH bids) that are similar to the item that got me kicked off (except mine were NOT copies). I notifed SafeHarbour several days ago, they responded yesterday that they took 'appropriate action'.
All of the seller's auctions continue to run. And, the seller is listing these copies in several different auctions! (Multiple illegal copies of the same copyrighted stuff!).
Here's a cut from one of these auctions:
That's right you are bidding on all XXX episodes of the XXX show in TV history XXX. That's right every last episode. The episodes are in chronological order and the quality is just great. As an added bonus I will give you copies of two music videos that the XXX did. These videos are rare and most of us have never seen them. This set comes on XXX high quality VHS tapes. Buyer will pay actual shipping charges only."
This particular set of tapes has been listed twice and both auctions are now over $200.00 with one day to go. And to top it off, the 'quality' must be crap based on the number of episodes and the number of 'high quality' tapes the seller is providing them on.
So, I wonder why the eBay Police felt it was OK to let these ones continue to run.
Any ideas???
[ edited by RB on Oct 1, 2000 05:13 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Oct 1, 2000 05:16 AM ]
posted on October 1, 2000 05:09:13 AM
Good morning RB
The information you have provided is enough to readily identify the Seller in question. I understand you are seeking help from the Community but I need you to either edit out the item description or follow the steps outlined in the CGs and invite the other party to join the discussion.
I will also contact you via email and will allow 1 hour for the edit after which I will have to lock the thread until the CGs are followed.
By posting the actual auction description, a simple search of both items and description using a couple of keywords will identify the Seller. Unless you are willing to invite the Seller (and have the thread locked for the mandatory 24 hours), you need to edit out the auction description.
posted on October 1, 2000 12:47:07 PM
Assuming these tapes are illegal copies my only guess is that Ebay is waiting for the actual copyright holder to issue an infringement complaint. I know you have stated that your auctions were closed based on another seller's complaint-maybe Ebay realized the error of this method (didn't they offer to reinstate you?).
Perhaps their "appropriate action" was to confirm with the seller that they do actually have permission to sell these items, as you do with yours.
BTW-I grant that these auctions do have the appearance of a copyright infringement, especially given the seller's recent purchase of a dual deck VCR. If I had to guess, it would be he/she is an employee of the editing house.
posted on October 2, 2000 09:52:42 AM
eBay offered to reinstate me in return for me 'keeping my mouth shut'. I told "Jason" that I am not interesting in dealing with a venue that allows illegal activity to occur and that I have taken some legal steps to get their attention. Obviously they don't care as this particular seller just completed a bunch of very obvious illegal auctions. EBay was notified way ahead of time on these and their response (all 3 times) was the canned 'bot reply.
Just a little more ammo ... stay tuned
PS - According to the copyright holder, who I have been in contact with, eBay never approached them ...
posted on October 2, 2000 09:28:29 PM
This message is to RB. I am the one who you were referring to in your description. I would like to venture in on this discussion. First, believe it or not, but I had no idea that these auctions were illegal. I must say that I am not familiar with copyright laws. You commented that I had completed all these illegal auctions. the truth is that after I was notified by email, perhaps by you, about this discussion I came and saw that it was illegal. I then went back and immediately ended all auctions. I have also asked Ebay to null and void all of the results from these transactions. I am not looking to violate any laws. Next I do find it very suspicious that you contacted Ebay about these auctions and they let it go through anyway. This is a very disgraceful act by ebay and they should face some kind of repercussions. Finally, I would like to again say that I truly did not know that these items were infringing and I assure everyone that I will never list any items like this again. Also you said that you notified the copyright holders. I think that in some cases it would be better to notify the seller first. In my case you have notified some copyright holder about someone that did not know they were in violation and also had no intentions to do so. If you look in these categories you will find 1000's of similar auctions so I assumed they were ok. So either let me know what you think here, or feel free to email me. Thanks.
posted on October 2, 2000 09:38:06 PM
Hi csodonovan- welcome to AuctionWatch!
Copyright law can be pretty complex, from what I've read, and I'm sure that there are a lot of folks listing "infringing" things that aren't aware. There are also IP owners who go over the line and have large groups of auctions nuked without looking at them individually to see whether they are infringing. So it cuts both ways...
I applaud your willingness to come here to engage in constructive discussion, and to end your auctions voluntarily when you found out that they are apparently infringing.
posted on October 2, 2000 09:44:48 PM
Copyright law is definitely complex. That's why I think that RB should notify sellers of this stuff before he goes and starts to contact the copyright holders of this stuff. People can do this and not know it is wrong as in my case. If the seller ignores the email or says he doesn't care then feel free to do whatever they want, but I think he should take these steps to make sure he doesn't cause problems for someone who may be innocent.
posted on October 3, 2000 05:07:51 AM
csodonovan ...
I, too, welcome you to AW and commend your honesty
If you get an opportunity, check out some of my recent posts here about this copyright issue. I have been involved in tape trading for many years, and through my connections I have 'met' many of the people who own the rights to some of this stuff.
My mad on, and that of the owners is not with you or any of the other people who sell this stuff for the basic costs of the tapes only. But, selling on eBay allows bids to skyrocket way past the point where the seller can justify the claim that no profit is being made on someone else's work. A few months ago I saw 3 tapes of Sopranos eps (EP dubs yet) go for over $300.00!
My mad on is with eBay and their double standard.
I listed a teevee series that I DO have the rights to sell (not copies, but masters). I worded my listing exactly as suggested by the copyright owner and eBay pulled it. Not based on any communication with the copyright owner or a VeRO member (eBay has no idea of who these people are!), but based simply on THEIR interpretation on how the auction was worded. I listed it again, and eBay kicked me off their site!
btw, I did not contact you directly to caution you. I have tried this before, and 99.9% of the people who sell this stuff for a profit know EXACTLY what they are doing. You wouldn't believe the flame responses I got!
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? (i.e. do you like you GO deck? - I've got 3 of them).
If you want to help out fellow fans, why not visit alt.video.tape-trading and set up some deals. The stuff you have is always in demand over there ...
Take care eh ...
PS - when I contacted the owners of the World's Funniest TV Family, I did not mention anything specific about you or your auctions - merely a question as to how they would respond if this type of activity was going on ...
I think I have made my point here at AW. Because I have been NARU'd by eBay and have no desire to go back there, I do not feel I can contribute anything more to this forum. I will, however, continue my battle with eBay until they 'see the light' ...
posted on October 3, 2000 06:43:36 AM
If you want the easy way to get the bozos selling tapes of The Sopranos or similar stuff on eBay, simply message them and ask them if the tapes they are selling are prerecorded.
posted on October 3, 2000 09:01:42 AM
Hey RB how do you get the rights to sell these kind of tapes. You said that there was one that you had the rights to. Let me know. Thanks.
