heavnsqt
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posted on October 4, 2000 11:14:30 PM
I feel we should take Paypal Logos off our auctions on October 16 in protest. They gave us a free service and now want to charge. They are going to offer an international service....What do you think the fee for that will be after it gets going on those $5 referals... Let me hear your thoughts on this
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Islander
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posted on October 4, 2000 11:28:45 PM
Warning: This response is a Vent!
This gripe is getting verrrrrry, verrrrrry old! Welcome to the real world of sales! PayPal charges less than anyone else in the entire universe for credit card processing. If all a person has to pay for in order to make money on eBay is eBay's piddling little fees and the best rate anywhere for credit card service, then life's pretty slick. If one can't make that work, then maybe the Sunday classifieds have something more appropriate to offer.
JS
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hcross
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posted on October 4, 2000 11:42:26 PM
Protest all you want to, but I think you are going to be very lonely while doing it. I have spoke with so many people lately about all this, all ebay sellers, and most reasonable people agree that if this what it takes to keep Paypal in business we are all for it. Of course people are not happy about the fees. By all means protest, I think you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. The other poster is correct, this is really, really old, if you don't like it cancel your account and then all will be well with you, won't it? The witch hunt has lost much of its momentum, thank God, ride the wave or get off the board.
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uaru
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posted on October 4, 2000 11:44:09 PM
"I feel we should..."
I feel we should think for ourselves. I'm anxious to see how the credit card counters work, and how many payments I get are via credit cards vs PayPal funds or bank accounts. As for the international service... well I can't tell you if I like green eggs and ham or not, but I'll find out. I've never been keen on purchasing items from international sellers for 2 reasons, the delay in time, and the risks, if I can cut the delay down and the risk down... hey... great.
These are MY thoughts and I have to follow them.
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 4, 2000 11:46:11 PM
Islander
"PayPal charges less than anyone else in the entire universe for credit card processing."
Please allow me to vent. This is not true! Billpoint's merchant account is cheaper. The only thing that makes PayPal more attractive is the voluntary -vs- manditory transfer/sweep fee. Even taking this into consideration the difference is very small.
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uaru
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posted on October 5, 2000 12:00:20 AM
"Billpoint's merchant account is cheaper."
Which account is that? BillPoint offers several different rates. For me PayPal charges 25 cents for items up to $15 and BillPoint charges me 35 cents. On items over $15.00 my BillPoint rate is 1.75% + 35 cents + a mandatory .50% deposit fee. PayPal would charge me 1.9% + 25 cents, and I could log on and in 3 clicks sweep my funds or pay .60% for the auto sweep. (add 1% for international payments to BillPoint and no addition to PayPal's international payment schedule)
So for me, no BillPoint isn't cheaper no matter how many ways you juggle the numbers.
To my knowledge PayPal doesn't have a chargeback fee either... BillPoint does. Just to increase the gap on the difference.
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 5, 2000 12:03:34 AM
hcross
"Protest all you want to, but I think you are going to be very lonely while doing it."
Seeing the world through PayPal colored glasses? I don't know who you've been talking to. My Bids are up the last few weeks and the number of PayPal payments are about half of what they were. I only just now removed the PayPal banner from my auctions. I have even had people email and request to pay by services other than PayPal several times. The reasons they gave have all been related to what has been going on lately. Billpoint usage among my customers is double what it was and people are starting to use PayDirect.
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hcross
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posted on October 5, 2000 12:42:45 AM
outoftheblue: Nope, not at all, I have said that Paypal was wrong in the way they announced the new fees and accounts, but everyone was informed back in July that if you were operating as a business you needed to upgrade. I take all the Payment services, and maybe 1 out of 50 want Billpoint, and 1 out of 4 want Paypal. Have yet to sell a thing where the buyer wants to use Exchange Path, Payme, ECount, etc. etc. There have literally been close to a thousand posts about how Paypal has lied to its users. You know, I guess they would rather have Paypal fold and take our money with them than pay the piddly little fees they are asking for. This is just ridiculous how this keeps on going, I don't understand why people want to keep dragging it up if you don't like it cancel your account and move on with it.
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macandjan
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:08:42 AM
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 4, 2000 10:34 AM ]
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vargas
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:52:40 AM
"So for me, no BillPoint isn't cheaper no matter how many ways you juggle the numbers."
Except Billpoint only charges .50% (sweep fee) for electronic check payments up to $200. PayPal charges business and premiere account holders 1.9% (with no sweep) for similar payments from $15.00 to $500.
So for funds drawn from a bank account for anything over $15.00, Billpoint is cheaper than PayPal for businesses.
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traceyg
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:52:43 AM
Although not a paypal fan I do agree with Islander that this gripe is getting old. I just switched over to paydirect. BTW there are the cheapest they are free. None of my customers have had a problem with it the just pay Via Paydirect. A few even like it better then paypal. Even if paypal were still free I wouldn't use them because of their unstable business practices. I don't get a lot of out of country bids and the ones that I do just send a money order or a check in US funds. Not a problem. SO yes paypal business practices are underhanded. That is why I switched. The fees are reasonable the business practices are not. I don't think it is real smart to trust paypal with money. I am also thinking of using billpoint but at this point Paydirect seems to be working fine on Ebay. Instead of griping just change around your services and get on it with. In the end Paypal will most likely cut their own throat. 5 years from now I think they will be but a small part of online services. There will be other companies bigger better and more established that will come in and take over the reins and squash companies like paypal that is a fairly small business in the span of major corporations. So, go on and change if you don't like Paypal and get on with business. It really isn't worth wasting your energy on. If paypal continues to practice they way there are now they will do themselves in. I believe they are a what is called in the business world a shooting star. I prefer to deal with Cash cows like Paydirect, billpoint etc . . .
Have a great day all
Tracey
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toomanycomics
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:54:12 AM
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mballai
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:56:47 AM
Here's what to do: Sign up for a business account or stop accepting PayPal payments. I signed up because this service is used by half of my customers and it actually saves me money.
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SilkMoth
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:58:48 AM
macandjan: "If the doubleclick packets fondling my ports are any indication....." What a picture! You sir, have not only a sense of humor but a way with words. 
--------
not SilkMoth anywhere but here
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borgt
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posted on October 5, 2000 06:14:58 AM
"If the doubleclick packets fondling my ports are any indication....."
My ports rather enjoy it!
But seriously, I agree that PayPal is terrible in the feature/t.o.s. implementation and P.R. departments, but what I really want them for (pay them for) they still do quite well, and at a reasonable rate.
I even got 2 referal bonuses last night (first ones in about a month!) That $10 that will offset fees on several transactions.
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heavnsqt
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posted on October 5, 2000 07:31:24 AM
who is to say Pay Pal will stop at this fee..the bibber they get the higher they can charge ......so take your banner off on Oct 16 and take some control...
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labbie1
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posted on October 5, 2000 08:19:32 AM
PP is not just charging on CC transactions. Please just make sure that you have all of the fees before deciding what to do about this:
http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fees-outside
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labbie1
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posted on October 5, 2000 08:21:12 AM
Oh and my banners have been off ever since that first pop-up window fiasco until I knew for SURE what they were doing. Why wait until the 16th if you are unhappy with their edicts?
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 5, 2000 08:34:54 AM
labbie1
You're making a lot of sense. I didn't remove the banner until 2 days ago. Just to lazy to change [upgrade] my template I guess.
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jwpc
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posted on October 5, 2000 09:26:51 AM
hcross
You are completely correct. PROTEST ALL YOU WANT, and it will accomplish about as much as those who get upset with eBay and try to start a protest.
Actually, as someone else said, PAYPAL saves me time and money - of my customers who charge 96% use PayPal, 3% call us with their charges as we have our own merchant account, and 1% use PayDirect.
We stopped using BillPoint as none of our customers used it, and it was a pain in the derrière to send invoices, and such stupid extra steps which it required.
Realize, just like in an eBay Protest, the BUYERS are the issue in sales, and the BUYERS don't give a hoot what your problem is with PAYPAL - if they like PAYPAL and want to use it, and you don't offer it, they'll just buy from someone who does.
I LOVE PAYPAL!
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Algernon
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posted on October 5, 2000 09:30:07 AM
Its unfortunate that other services aren't able to divide their services into businesses and hobbyists. I'd love for AuctionWatch to have two different message boards, one for the businesses and one for the hobbyist. The hobbyist could continue to whine, and moan, and cry, and rant, and complaint, and grieve about PayPal's changes without annoying the business people to death.
If you think you can have a merchant account for free I'm sorry you can't. Get over it and move on! If you don't, won't, or can't accept that let me offer these alternate solutions. Live in denial a while longer and use another free service, stop selling altogether, send private emails telling any that will listen of the grievous abuses you suffered at the hands of PayPal, file lawsuits, contact your attorney general. Just do it where I don't have to see it anymore! This tantrum has gone on for over a month now and totally dominated this board!
PayPal made a choice, put in charges for high credit card uses or flounder, now you make a choice. I pray to everything holy that this message stops just one nitpicking hobbyist from issuing another "call to arms!"
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nufsaid
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posted on October 5, 2000 09:34:05 AM
I took my paypal link off and replaced it with PayPlace. I haven't had any problem using or getting customers to use PayPlace.
labbie1: I looked at the fee schedule link and it's interesting that they din't compare themselves to PayPlace or PayDirect. Since both are FREE!!!!! PAYPAL LIED AND I WONT USE THEM! Gore lies all the time and I won't vote him either!
nufsaid
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fountainhouse
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posted on October 5, 2000 09:46:01 AM
I've also been doing something -- paypal's logo came off all my auctions the minute they instituted their "verification" deception.
I couldn't care less about the fees. In fact, I'd happily pay even more if paypal would stop underestimating our intelligence.
"Verification" my eye.
BTW, I'm no hobbyist. I'm a Bronze PowerSeller who doesn't quite qualify for Silver (yet).
[ edited by fountainhouse on Oct 5, 2000 09:50 AM ]
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networker67
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:05:55 AM
Wowsers this is an interesting thread. Well networker67 says if you benefit from the service why not pay for your benefit. If you don't benefit fro the service by all means please stop using it.
Now on the part about lying. Well ebay lies everyday about something. But since you benefit from it you accept it. Well paypal is a benefit to me so I will pay for it. Besides I am averaging 15 referrals a week. And I hope they hurry up and create a paypal shopping cart that I can use for activities outside of the auction world. If that happens my referrals might soar to 25. In fact I am looking forward to firing Charter Bank if they come up with that shopping cart.
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labbie1
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:25:28 AM
My beef is not with the fees per se.
I have a problem with the fact that PayPal claims that it is to offset the costs of CC payments, yet is charging on EVERY transaction whether it is CC related or not. THAT is what has my fur up.
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ecom
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posted on October 5, 2000 11:42:50 AM
I think it all comes down to integrity, yours and the people you choose to do business with.
I stopped using PayPal because the company was proven to be disreputable. They didn't keep their word and then tried to weasel out, instead of admiting they were wrong and saying they were sorry.
You're judged by the company you keep and I can't keep PayPal, regardless of what they offer, now or next.
Further, I won't purchase items through PayPal. If a seller only offers that payment method, I'll pass. It tells me that the seller has compromised their integrity, too. And I choose not to do business with them.
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otmj2
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posted on October 5, 2000 12:44:47 PM
Well, too bad for us that Pay Pal is now charging, but it's still a good deal for the most part.
otmj2
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