flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:31:36 PM new
An item a friend bid on and eventually became the high bidder on is now under suspect as being a fake.
He was notified by several prominent collectors in the field as to the suspect authenticity of the item.
He has emailed the seller and seller has basically said too bad, pay up. (This person wasn't nice about it either, very defensive). But I explained to my friend that this person may be a new seller and doesn't understand that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Anyway, now he's in a quandry. Does he pay for the item and risk it being fake, or not pay and risk a neg.
I've told him to call the seller, most people act like hot dogs in email, but are actually very polite on the phone.
Of course, she may be a big bi**h too, who knows.
What do you think my friend should do?
I may add that the other collectors that contacted him are very well respected in the field.
Thanx!
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loosecannon
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:35:52 PM new
I don't like the seller's attitude but your friend should have done a little investigating before bidding. He is obligated to buy it now or he deserves a neg, just my opinion. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the way it works.
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:40:14 PM new
loose:
I told him that already, but he's hoping this may be worked out diplomatically. (Yeah, right!)
He does tend to take things too personally and I told him not to, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks as the saying goes.
He's been collecting for quite a few years, but not the 30+ years this other collector that notified him. I think they should have never told him, but if he found out they knew and didn't. Oops, not good.
We're talking in excess of $150 here, not chump change either.
Edited for grammar of all things!
[ edited by flynn on Oct 11, 2000 03:41 PM ]
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loosecannon
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:50:06 PM new
Sounds like the seller isn't interested in diplomacy though.
Is the thing worth what he's paying even if it is a reproduction? I mean, did it go for way under market value that an authentic one would bring?
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:52:05 PM new
loose:
No it did bring what an authentic one would bring. Bummer, huh?
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amy
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:53:31 PM new
I think I can understand the seller's atitude.
How does he know your friend isn't just a buyer with buyer's remorse and the "it's a fake" email isn't just a very creative excuse?
Or...how does the seller know that the so called "experts" are really experts?
In fact, without actually seeing the item in person how do these "experts" know for sure that the item IS fake?
Or..how does your friend know for sure that these "experts" know what they are talking about?
Maybe the "experts" were back up bidders who are hoping to get the item if your friend deadbeats.
Yes, I can understand the seller's "so what" attitude.
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loosecannon
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:56:36 PM new
If it went for way under market value (which is hard to determine sometimes in these eBay times, I know), there could be a good reason. Other potential bidders might have suspected something was up, you know?
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reddeer
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:56:37 PM new
He pays, and learns the lesson of "asking questions before you place a bid".
Any decent seller would refund the $$$ if the item was misrepresented, but yer pal should pay up, or take the neg.
Myself, I'd rather take a neg, than be out $150.
BTW - What's the item in question? Can the people who emailed your friend be 100% certain that it's a fake?
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 03:57:51 PM new
Amy:
I completely concur, but both my friend and I completely trust these other collectors. Heck I'd trust any of them with my life if the occasion arose. So, I don't think it's a matter of they are trying to get something for less money. Everybody in this field watches out for everybody else (sometimes to a fault of course), but they are all good hearted people. I love some of them more than I do my own family sometimes 
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:01:54 PM new
reddeer:
Well they aren't saying 100% it's a fake, but they have all said in the 75 years combined experience in the field it's never popped up before. Which I did tell him that doesn't mean it doesn't exist either. He's really stuck and doesn't know what to do.
I really can't say what it is because the moderator would make me take it off anyway, but it's a very heavily collected item.
I told him I would rather take a neg than waste over $150, but then again I have over 500 feedbacks, he's only got 20 something.
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reddeer
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:04:30 PM new
OK, did the seller guarantee it's authenticity? If so, then worse case scenerio is if it indeed turns out to be a fake, he can file for the eBay insurance & he'll only be out $25.
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:07:00 PM new
reddeer:
No the seller didn't guarantee anything.
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reddeer
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:11:16 PM new
Did the seller "misrepresent" the item being sold? If so, then eBay insurance could still be an option.
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reddeer
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:13:22 PM new
Maybe your friend should read this:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/insurance.html
And next time ask questions before he places a bid. Not every seller is an "expert" on the items they sell.
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sweil
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:27:09 PM new
will the seller allow your friend to use I escrow or one of those typ of sites if your friend pays for it? He might ask.
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labbie1
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posted on October 11, 2000 04:54:25 PM new
If he uses a charge card, he can charge back if it isn't as presented.
I have a butter mold that I purchased on Ebay for book value (about $80) that when I received it, it was a fake. Nice fake, but a fake. This was my 2nd purchase on Ebay.
It sits prominently in my dining room to remind me to ask questions and thoroughly research the item that I want to bid on.
My first purchase on Ebay was a milk bottle with the cream top that I had been looking for for quite a while. When I received it, there was a chip out of the bubble right in the front of the bottle. It didn't show in the pic, but there was a vague reference in the ad to a chip, but no mention of where the chip was located. That too is sitting in a prominent spot.
Does that mean everyone is a crook? NOPE! I have had many good purchases with very good sellers as well!
Your friend might have a nice white elephant to sit in a prominent place to remind him to research and ask questions--even ask for more scans.
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valeriet
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posted on October 11, 2000 05:20:18 PM new
If he only has 20 feedbacks, tell him to take the neg and if he doesn't like it, open a new account.
Valerie
--
Valerie's Doggie Closet
http://www.amazon.com/shops/valeriet
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macandjan
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:35:05 PM new
labbie 1 - Off topic a little - do people fake carved buttermolds? I have a couple of the square kind - not really a collector and wondered about what you said.
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labbie1
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:44:19 PM new
macandjan People fake just about anything that is popular.
However, my butter mold is a glass butter mold with cows around it. Anything with cows is open to copying and mine is a copy--at least the wooden handle is a more recent addition to the mold. It's still cute, but the copies sell for about $5 wholesale--and maybe $19.95 retail. 
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getkicksonrte66
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:53:40 PM new
Seller sounds like a nasty individual--think I'd forget the purchase, one neg is not gonna ruin the bidders ebay life.
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:57:56 PM new
flynn
What is the item in question and what criteria did the collectors use to identify it as a fake?
Isn't there a third party service that can be used to authenticate the item?
I disagree with some of the other posters. A person should not have to authenticate an item before they bid on it. If it is sold as an authentic item, and it is fake, then it is the seller's responsibility for not authenticating the item before attempting to sell it. This could be a clear cut case of mis-representation.
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labbie1
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:58:52 PM new
Oh yeah, and I read about a museum (can't remember which one now) that purchased a chair for 2 million dollars. They had several experts examine the chair for authenticity before making the expenditure of course!
A couple of years later, the man who faked the chair came forward and confessed.
The museum decided to keep the chair on display as an impressive fake and to demonstrate that even the best can be fooled! 
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flynn
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:08:38 PM new
I want to personally thank everyone that took the time to post
I think I will tell my friend to go with what he thinks is best, after all, it's his money and reputation on the line, not mine.
I had already told him that the seller may well think that this item is an original based on her experience.
I just kind of agree with a little bit of everybody's opinions.
Yes, he should have asked (but he thought it was an okay item, why ask when you have no questions).
Yes, she should stand behind her items.
No, not everybody is an expert.
All of this makes perfect sense, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Personally, if this were me, I'd take the negative and not risk wasting $163, and I sell WAY more than I buy. If I bought 1 item to 100 items sold that's a high ratio for me.
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lotsafuzz
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posted on October 11, 2000 09:50:10 PM new
What are several 'well respected' collectors doing contacting bidders on someone elses auction?
Isn't that still auction interference?
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kellyb1
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posted on October 12, 2000 12:25:35 AM new
lots, auction interferance is exactly what it is. If I was the seller I would have been upset by a bidder telling me something I sold was fake. But that is because I am an honest seller and I don't sell fakes.
I would pay the money, and if it was misrepresented, put a claim in to ebay.
Kelly
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uaru
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posted on October 12, 2000 12:40:04 AM new
If the auction stated the item was genuine then I would think the seller should offer a full refund + postage if the item isn't so. That's what would happen in a 'perfect world'.
If the seller has responded negatively to a diplomatic concern about the items authenticity I'd be on my guard.
Admittedly these things should have been worked out before the bids were placed, but I wouldn't accept taking a loss because of that mistake on my part.
Another option the buyer could take is to ask the seller to agree to an escrow service that would be paid by the buyer. If the seller has a problem with that then I'd regretably have to take the neg and keep my money.
How much is involved here? $10, $100, $1,000?
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