posted on October 11, 2000 05:22:43 PM
Yep, I got that "we froze your account" email from Paypal. A customer wrote to Paypal that I had "defrauded" him by not sending his item. I had already been in contact with the customer who refused to fill out an insurance claim form.
Paypal, which is about 10 miles from my home, is unlisted in the phone book. But I found their number in a thread on the "Partner Services" forum. I STRONLY recommend that if you use Paypal, you write down this number, because you will NEVER find it elsewhere. PayPal Customer Support: 1 (877) 672-9725
I contacted Paypal and was informed that, despite the email, my account was not frozen. I immediately withdrew the $300 from the account (which was supposedly frozen over a $19 complaint) and closed my account. Even though Paypal sent me a notice that my account was frozen, the support rep could find no trace or reason for the notice. According to the rep, Paypal probably "changed their mind" about closing the account after the email was sent.
Question: WOULD YOU DO BUSINESS WITH A BANK THAT HAS AN UNLISTED PHONE NUMBER?
I was in the middle of the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, and I know the feeling of the walls coming crashing down. I think I got out of Paypal just in time.
Now I'm going to my bank to close my checking account and reopen another one. Better safe than sorry.
posted on October 11, 2000 05:27:19 PM
Don't Feel Bad they froze my account for over two months over $65.00. The customer received the merchandise. In the meantime customers where still paying for there auctions through paypal and paypal was holding the money all this time. I wrote letters three times a day. All I got back from paypal was fill out an appeal form. Great if they had one on there site I would have. Finally they released my funds and I closed my account also. I kept asking them how could they hold my funds for so long and not give it to me that is how I buy more product to sell. They never answered. Good Luck.
posted on October 11, 2000 05:49:18 PM
Damon, for your info I have forwarded the email. Note that despite the email from Paypal, my account was NOT frozen, and that I have now closed that account.
I do know that the user mentioned in Paypal's letter had contacted me previously, and had refused to fill out an insurance claim form.
This was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't wish to join the masses who have experienced what themegastore went through.
posted on October 11, 2000 06:08:05 PM
You folks must all be mistaken. Damon has said that PayPal doesn't freeze accounts unless the amount in dispute is over $250. PayPal keeps its word.
posted on October 11, 2000 06:12:53 PM
Preacher4u, you don't have to spell it out for me. A telephone number and the option of talking to a real-live person is a service that Paypal or ANY company, internet-based or not, should provide. Especially when Paypal is handling MY money. And especially when Paypal freezes hundreds of dollars over a $20 bogus claim of non-receipt. Hiding their customer support "under a bushel" is a disservice to Paypal customers.
posted on October 11, 2000 06:22:55 PM
My internet-based bank's phone number is VERY easy to find. You click on "contact us" on the home page.
In fact, I checked three INTERNET-BASED banks and found telephone contact numbers for all within a matter of seconds.
For some issues, a canned e-mail response just won't do.
posted on October 11, 2000 06:29:48 PM
Trust me when I say this twinsoft, even if it was PayPal's Fault they will never never NEVER say, "Oh gosh, we made a mistake. We are so sorry! You are right and we are working hard to make sure that a mistake like this cannot and will not ever happen again. We are also working to create appropriate and quick resolution."
Nope, PayPal will just NOT do this! They removed money from my checking in February BEFORE verification even began and BEFORE we had the option of funding our PP accounts with our checking accounts.
They paid the money back in June after several calls, e-mails and faxes with PayPal.
I was satisfied that this was a fledgling company and though they did not "catch" their mistake, they did refund my money after I proved to them that they had made a mistake and taken money OUT of my checking account.
However, later when Damon made his comment that he had never seen a mistake on PayPal's part and that every case that he had seen turned out to be the fault of the owner of the account hitting a wrong button, I had to bring it up. There was no wrong button for me to hit in February as we could not fund our PP accounts with our checking at that time!
I still have not had an apology nor even an acknowlegement that there was a mistake on PP's part. Until I get that, I am not a happy camper...
Good luck, twinsoft, getting them to admit to anything!
posted on October 12, 2000 10:43:19 AM
Hi kateartist,
The 250.00 threshold is for the buyer/seller protection program.
If the recipient is in receipt of a stolen credit card or some other issue, the hold can also be placed on an account. Without knowing the case specifics, I can't assist and I can't get it directed to the correct department.
posted on October 12, 2000 10:44:46 AM
Hi labbie1,
I first need to verify that there was a glitch. I do know that you were remibursed for the issue and I do apologize. I haven't been able to verify the dates in question because it was 8 months ago.
You have the proof that you did take the money from my account in February. In February, we didn't have the option of transfering money from our checking accounts to our PayPal accounts.
And yes, the money was refunded after 3 1/2 months. After I proved to PP that they had taken it out without authorization.
How hard it is to say that you didn't have the authority to remove the money at that time and that it happened and it was a mistake on PayPal's part and that the problem was rectified?
That is all I wanted. No spin Damon. Just a sorry, we were wrong. We are taking steps to be sure that it can't happen again and if it does that we will catch it and reimburse and not make you spend months proving our glitch to us.
I wouldn't have even brought this up except that you stated that any problems that you have seen with money being removed was the fault of the account holder and not PayPal.
Well this was not the case with mine. Mine happened BEFORE PP was authorized to remove money under ANY circumstances. Quit saying that it is hard to find out if you had a glitch. Of course you did!
This is the point I keep making, Paypal can never be trusted until:
- they have the courage to admit that they do have problems, that they do violate their own TOS, that their own employees don't seem to know what the TOS is (maybe if it wasnt changed so often that would solve part of the problem)
- get some real customer service people answering the phone (either that or post on the web site "if you have a paypal problem, go over to auction watch and post it there, you wont get results from calling us"
- with 4 million PP users, there should be at least 4 "Damons" handling this board.
Frankly, I dont understand how you can do this all by yourself. It looks like your company is throwing you to the wolves. Did you do somethin to Musk's car to deserve this? http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
posted on October 12, 2000 11:38:38 AM
Hi labbie1,
I am not trying to spin anything. I did apologize for the error, but I did advise that I am having a hard time verifying the issue because it was 8 months ago.This appears to have been an isolated glitch and it is an item we would gladly correct if it happened again.
You have the confirmation in the form of my bank statement showing the withdrawl by PP. You know that in February PP was not authorized to withdraw under any circumstances from anyone's bank accounts.
I am in agreement with yisgood. It is not your fault.
It was a problem with PP the company. I just feel it is better policy for a company whose business is built on their reputation and trust to take it in the nose when they make a mistake, say I am sorry, we are putting in more safeguards to be sure that these things don't happen again and admit they aren't perfect. I believe people can live with that. I can live with honesty much easier than spin and lies.
Thank you for the apology.
BTW, you DIDN'T scratch Elon's million dollar car did you? Or breath on it or something bad like that?
posted on October 12, 2000 12:31:29 PM
What kills me is that a business handling all this money can't pull records because 8 months have passed. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I can pull up an email someone sent me 10 years ago in about 5 seconds. Aren't financial records supposed to be kept for 7 years??
Damon did you hear we have computer's now? Holy cow! 8 months! I am truly bewildered.
posted on October 12, 2000 01:09:50 PM
I got another letter from Paypal, requesting that I provide a tracking number for the undelivered parcel. I can understand the problem of chargebacks, but what's funny about this deal is that I contacted the customer a while back and he refused to fill out an insurance claim form. Because of the actions of that scam artist over a $19 item, Paypal is attempting to freeze my entire account (which had $300 in it yesterday).
Since I have learned that Paypal can and will "reverse a payment" by going into my bank account without my permission, I'm on my way to the bank right now to deal with that probability.
On the plus side, my Paypal account is empty and the account is closed. I got my first half-dozen payments from Yahoo! PayDirect today and no one complained. One buyer even asked if he could use PayDirect. PayPal started out so nice and it's a pity that they've chosen this road. They started out buying eBay sellers and making all kinds of promises. Now they think they've got us by the balls. Everywhere you look, more fees, more restrictions and broken promises. They won't even list their number in the phone book. You couldn't pay me to use Paypal.
posted on October 12, 2000 01:18:15 PM
Hi twinsoft,
Would you care to explain this comment?
Since I have learned that Paypal can and will "reverse a payment" by going into my bank account without my permission, I'm on my way to the bank right now to deal with that probability.
posted on October 12, 2000 01:27:31 PM
"Now they think they've got us by the balls"
Only some of us twinsoft!
Some of us were perceptive enough at the very beginning when the virtues of PayPal were first announced, and we realized that this would NOT, could not be a free service and should be avoided. Unfortunately, PP managed to 'convince' a lot of people about the wonderfullness of their 'free' service and now these poor folks are suffering the consequences of getting stung.
If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Hope you PP whingers have learned your lesson
posted on October 12, 2000 01:27:38 PM
Here is how I am handling PayPal's problems:
(even though I have had no problems with them myself, I feel it's still too risky)
This now goes in every auction:
PAYMENT TERMS: I kindly request that I receive payment within 14 days of Auction's end. I accept money orders and glady accept personal checks (to be held for 7 business days). I also will accept concealed cash in the instance where the final bid amount is nominal. Due to recent problems I have had with PayPal I am no longer using them. <p>THANKS SO MUCH FOR LOOKING
I guess I'll have to wait to see how it goes...........
[ edited by creativethings on Oct 12, 2000 01:29 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 01:27:50 PM
I just have to say I closed my Paypal account today. For two days I tried to pay for an auction and it kept saying my credit card was denied. Knowing this was impossible I emailed Paypal. While waiting for a response (which has yet to come) I called my bank and even tried to "beam" the funds with the woman from the bank on the phone making sure I had the correct number etc. and it was denied for about the 6th time. The woman at the bank advised me to close the account because there was NO reason for the card to have been denied and if there was a glitch in their system, it could just as easily work against me. So I closed the account. (Incidently, I had tried to add a card prior to that and it said that that CC number was registered to another Paypal customer. I questioned that in the email to which I have yet to get a response.) I have to agree that it appears the walls are crumbling. What's the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
Teresa [email protected]
posted on October 12, 2000 01:37:47 PM
I'm sorry PPD but I'm on my way out the door to pick up my kids. I don't have time to debate what Paypal might or might not do. And excuse my bluntness, but your claims about Paypal don't mean much to me. You know exactly what I mean by "reversal of deposit."
Further, from Paypal's TOS:
*****************
Although this Guarantee only protects purchases from Verified sellers, all sellers - both Verified and Unverified - should be aware that they are liable for non-shipment of goods. Non-shipment of goods may constitute a criminal violation, and X.com will cooperate with law enforcement agencies to apprehend and prosecute offenders. If goods have been lost in the mail, buyer and seller should file appropriate claims through the insurance obtained at the time of shipment.
Buyers who do not receive their merchandise must make several documented attempts to contact the Seller and resolve the dispute on their own before filing a claim with X.com.
****************
Since this buyer refused to fill out an insurance claim form, and I'm sure has no documented evidence of such, I wonder what your TOS or promises are worth. In actuality, any complaint from any buyer results in an account being frozen.
posted on October 12, 2000 01:43:29 PM
I, too, will be closing my Paypal account shortly. In fact, all my auctions that will post this evening, state that I will no longer accept Paypal. I didn't use Paypal initially because I had emailed with questions regarding opening the account and various policies and never rec'd any reply. Eventually, however, through buyer pressure, I started using Paypal several months ago. Again, several questions have come up and I have emailed 3 times (over a 3 day period). The first email prompted a canned answer that didn't even come close to addressing my questions. I have since sent 2 emails, neither of which has been answered. Apparently, if the answer isn't in "a can" then it gets tossed. Since I am now being charged for using Paypal, I expect customer service. Since I have yet to receive any, I will close my account as soon as my existing auctions which offer the Paypal option close out. I don't do business with a company that acts as a bank, handles my money, and does not answer my questions. Paypal - people are not idiots - don't treat them that way. I'm sorry if this post is off the track of this particular thread, but in reading the issues here, I am only convinced my course of action is the correct one. I see the writing on the wall...
posted on October 12, 2000 08:41:57 PM
Well, the kids and I had a nice dinner with Uncle Kenny.
I just wanted to add one thing. Today was the first day my PayDirect-only auctions came up. All my listings now say credit cards accepted through Yahoo! PayDirect. Sales today were nearly double the average. So I guess that I don't need to worry that not accepting Paypal will hurt sales. I feel pretty good about this. Just today I closed my checking account and opened a new one. Paypal is quickly becoming just a bad memory.
