lennonhall
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posted on October 11, 2000 05:47:14 PM
Is it me are are the deadbeats all suddenly crawling out of the woodwork?
In just the past two weeks we've had FOUR NPBs (in the previous six months, we only had ONE!) Plus, we're starting to see an increase in bidders with zero FBs or a lot of negs (have one bidder right now with 6 negs). I'm actually starting to cancel people's bids if they have too many negs - we've never done this before but don't want to be in the collection business!
Not only that, but we're starting to get really weird emails too. Got three from the same bidder the other day ... from three different email addresses ... one saying that if she won the auction we shouldn't email her (said her email wasn't working), we should call her (gave us a phone number - this auction has 6 days to go!); the second one said we should write to her (and she gave us her address) and the third one said we should wait for her to contact us because she would be in the hospital when the auctions ended. This nutjob was bidding on 5 of my auctions.
HELP! IS ANYONE ELSE GETTING THESE LUNATICS? Do they just crawl out of the woodwork for the holidays?
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smw
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posted on October 11, 2000 05:50:18 PM
Sounds as if she is a teenager, or is an adult who doesn't want someone with access to her email to know she is bidding or buying anything.
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snowyegret
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:22:58 PM
Full Moon coming up!
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lennonhall
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:25:05 PM
Well, that's what we thought when we got the second email ... but the third one convinced us she was a nut. This was three emails from the same person from three different email addresses (you know, the AOL address, the MSN address and the Hotmail address type of thing). One too many crazies like her and deadbeats lately!
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jleinweber
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:36:26 PM
It's not just you!! We have had a big increase in deadbeats. We have one auction on which we don't even know who won. She wrote with one name and email address, and then later said that her friend bid and she has some other eBay name that she won't disclose. We have also had threatening emails and telephone calls. We also cancel bids on bidders with too many negatives for non-pay. In case you live in Colorado, there is a new state statute covering harrassment via phone, email, mail, or any other computer means. I do not know if other states have the same statute, but they should.
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lennonhall
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:42:14 PM
Methinks there are too many people on eBay now who bid for fun with NO intention of paying. I've actually begun to track them (you go into Search, then into bidders and you can see every auction someone has bid on - whether or not they won it). You can really see the sporting bidders that way. I've had so many lately that are bidding on 4 or 5 of my auctions that I can now tell which ones are sporting bidders and which ones are real (at least I think I can!).
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dman3
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:54:15 PM
definately a Full moon due I think the flakes are every where I havent had none on ebay but I am getting them on yahoo.
I was thinking Halloween was starting earily and the tricksters are out in full force.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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chevytr
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:03:14 PM
I agree...I have had more now than ever! On two sites...Ebay and Yahoo...They run up the bidding price and never pay. I had one that answered my email right away and said payment was on the way...then when I hadn't received the payment, I sent a second email and he said he didn't remember bidding on it!
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chum
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:20:08 PM
I thought it was interesting last night a fellow poster thought since Yahoo requires credit card verification the deadbeats are moving to eBay. I agree with 100%, and all it takes to cut deadbeats by 90% is to have a minimum feedback option like yahoo has.
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avaloncourt
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:55:38 PM
I just went through my auction lists tonight and sent out five warnings to bidders. One from austrailia who hasn't paid in a month (He got a NPB too) and isn't answering emails. Then there are 4 in the US who haven't paid in 3 weeks. Made for a depressing night.
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mfeit
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posted on October 11, 2000 09:18:00 PM
I gues It is sort of reassuring that I am not the only one having this prob. I am dealing with a guy who won four of my auctions a month ago and hasn't paid, and he just won two more of my auctions last night. He emailed me back after my notification stating that he has emailed me twice about the previous auctions (which I received and responed to. Maybe he thinks I can put email in my bank account.
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MzThumpR
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posted on October 11, 2000 09:28:40 PM
It's interesting that you brought that up because I was just noticing that there seems to be a lot of 0 feedback bidders both in my auctions and in others' auctions.
I would like to thank lennonhall for the handy tip of how to track what auctions your bidders are also bidding on. I knew you could do it, just wasn't sure where it was.  I decided to look up a couple of my bidders and come to find out one of them has bid on $200 worth of items. This person has also raised the price on one of my auctions to above retail...so that REALLY makes me nervous. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's just a case of being new and wanting to buy a lot of stuff and not a dead beat. 
Lisa
[ edited by MzThumpR on Oct 11, 2000 09:32 PM ]
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mballai
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posted on October 11, 2000 09:53:55 PM
And people thought I was too harsh earlier today about not wanting to be "babysitting" bidders.
I don't believe in taking the defensive, but I think it is about time that sellers stop coddling bidders. Anyone with more than two neurons firing can figure out how eBay works. You win, you pay and yes the seller does need you to email your complete shipping address and yes we use the computer and do not make long distance phone calls when you win your $2.50 item. That's all you need to know except how and where to send the money.
If sellers stop waiting on deadbeats they would go away. File your NPBs not later than day 10 and your FVF credits not later than day 20 after auction. If feel generous make it days 14 and 24. If eBay were to get really flooded with NPB alerts and FVF credits, I'll bet dollars to donuts that they would toughen up.
How about suspending a bidder after one FVF credit for 30 days, 60 days for second FVF, and 90 days for three FVF. Permanent suspension thereafter. Three strikes before real eBay action puts the bidder on deadbeat cruise control and it's time to stop it.
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thedewey
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posted on October 11, 2000 10:05:18 PM
I filed 6 NPB's just the two days ago. 
They seem to come in spells for me. I get a bunch at once, and then everything's great for a couple of weeks. Then here comes another bunch. Oh well ... it keeps things interesting, I suppose.
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lennonhall
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posted on October 12, 2000 05:17:26 AM
Misery loves company. I'm glad I started this thread now -- glad to know we're not alone in this battle. Sure don't want to turn the auction business into a collection agency. One thing to brush up on -- the skill of how to cancel someone's bid!
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pickersangel
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posted on October 12, 2000 06:00:45 AM
Very definitely. Today I get to file my first FVF request and two NPB's. As someone else noted LOTS of (0) feedback bidders (many of them AOL, which is scary). Makes you wonder how many of them are NARU's with new ID's. Maybe they heard about Ebay's new policies about NOT policing for violations via the boards.
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nicepolice
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posted on October 12, 2000 07:32:45 AM
I agree with mballai. Mfeit: why would you NOT cancel bids from someone who hasn't even paid from past auctions?
I think as a seller it is very important to keep "on top" of who your bidders are, especially if you've had bad dealing with them before. Why deal with them again?
Although, I don't think its necessary to "fully research" every bidder. This takes too much time. Before the auction ends, I check the bidder's feedback to see if they have alot of negs or if they have alot of retracted bids. If I get a bad gut feeling about someone who is obviously not serious about bidding, I cancel their bid. It really doesn't matter to me if I lose another dollar or two or three because of it. I would much rather get less for an item, and have the bidder pay for it.
[ edited by nicepolice on Oct 12, 2000 07:33 AM ]
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lennonhall
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posted on October 12, 2000 10:58:02 AM
Nicepolice: don't forget one thing -- you CAN cancel a bid if it's in the middle of the auction but you canNOT cancel an end-of-auction sniper's bid unless you're a lot faster than he (or she) it. EBay doesn't make bid cancelling easy -- takes longer to cancel a bid than it does to bid - so a sniper can get you a lot faster than you can get him!
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rampaged
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posted on October 12, 2000 01:41:53 PM
My suggestion is to put rose colored glasses on the bid retractors and require they wear them for 30 to 90 days so that sellers know they are dealing with a potential deadbeat or problem bidder that can't make up their minds.
Also change the color of the glasses as the number of bid retractions increases. That way you will know if you want to cancel their bid or not.
In other words make bid retractions something to be frowned upon.
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creativethings
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posted on October 12, 2000 02:49:24 PM
rampaged: How can you put glass on the bidders? I didn't know you could do that?
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sissyclarke
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posted on October 12, 2000 03:10:08 PM
lennonhead
Thank you for the tip.
It seems everytime I come in the message center I learn something.
Thank you.
P.S. Cross my fingers no one crawling in this shop.
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amalgamated2000
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posted on October 12, 2000 03:31:03 PM
There was a brief discussion recently of using collection agencies to collect auction debts. I would be very interested in hearing the experiences of anyone who has tried this.
If it's actually possible, I think that if a lot of sellers started doing this, the number of deadbeats would drop dramatically.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
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MzThumpR
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posted on October 12, 2000 08:33:42 PM
Ok...I must have hung out the sign that says "All brand new eBayers...if you have 0 feedback, please come and bid on my auctions." Yes...I got another one.
Anyhow, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that this turns out to be a pleasant experience.
Lisa
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mfeit
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posted on October 12, 2000 09:10:47 PM
nicepolice, The bidder placed his bid in the last 10 minutes of the auction. I did not have time to remove his bid. I received note from him today, apparently he sent a check for all items this morning, we'll see.
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BabeBay
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posted on October 13, 2000 02:49:56 AM
After selling for over 2 years on eBay I've only had 2 deadbeats (...and so far no bad checks - 'hope I'm not jinxing myself!) until this September and now I've had 4 and I only run about 20 auctions monthly.
I won't complain about the traffic & success, but it pi$$ed me off when I couldn't post a neg for one because he/she was no longer a "registered member."
I have 1 question:
If a deadbeat neg'd me - let's say - out of spite, do I have any protection or recourse to protect myself? I'm very protective of my positive feedback record because I earn it and fear my first neg if I don't deserve it.
This is the reason I NEVER leave neg's - I just move on. To me, it's my eBay credit report. I can pay my bills on time and my credit report reflects what I've done, but eBay feedback is an open gallery if somebody chooses to play around.
I hate the idea of possibly being a victum of some troll.
Did I type that out loud??? 
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lennonhall
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posted on October 13, 2000 06:22:50 AM
It's my understanding that EBay does nothing when somebody gives you a retailatory neg. That would break their policy of non-interference! However, I read a posting a while back where the seller said that she only give negs for NPB's - nothing else (I think that's a good policy; some people neg if someone is obnoxious, some neg if someone is slow). But that poster also went on to say she only negs in a very polite manner - no capital letters, no name calling -- no use of word "deadbeat" or "slimeball"! She said she just write plain and simple "no email, no pay". The bottom line: said she has given over a dozen negs to npb's and NEVER gotten a retaliatory neg. Sounds like a good practice to me!
[ edited by lennonhall on Oct 13, 2000 06:43 AM ]
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pickersangel
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posted on October 13, 2000 06:32:36 AM
You can't get a negative removed simply because the person is retaliating for negative feedback, being turned in for being a NPB, or whatever. Not leaving negative feedback is no guarantee that you won't ever get any, although it does diminish your chances. By not leaving negs for NPB, you're leaving other sellers open to the same treatment by the bidder. I'm going to have to leave the first neg for a bidder with a 40+ FB rating. No payment, no response after the first one to the EOA. I sent follow-up emails to her from several addies, plus the friendly reminder from Ebay when I filed the NPB. She's continued to bid and received additional positives for payment. At this point, I'm wondering how many sellers she's stiffed that failed to post feedback to that effect. IOW, how accurate is her rating, really?
Post the negatives as suggested (factually and unemotionally) and respond to any retaliatory negatives you receive. If anyone reads your feedback, it will be easy for them to tell who's in the wrong, as most users who retaliate with feedback have forums filled with negs received for NPB and retaliatory negs left in return.
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debbielennon
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posted on October 13, 2000 06:43:33 AM
I leave negs for my NPBs & have never gotten one back in return <crossing fingers>...Just leave the facts: date auction ended, no response to emails (with dates), no payment. I did use the word 'DEADBEAT' at the end of one, but even s/he did not retaliate...
I just sent out final reminders yesterday, which I do as a courtesy before I file my NPB's. One of these is a seller that has auctions running that state payment must reach her within 10 days, yet the auction she won from me is long overdue & she has not managed to pay me. She accepts PayPal, too--so I am really annoyed with her!
[ edited by debbielennon on Oct 13, 2000 06:58 PM ]
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mipakaco
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posted on October 13, 2000 07:57:37 AM
I sell about 100 items per week on ebay. Most are between $8-$10. I know even before it happens that between 6-8 of these items will never be paid for. That's how many deadbeats there are out there. I file NPB after 14 days, and FV after the 10 day waiting period is up. I'm not about to be emailing these bums, get a "check's in the mail", wait,wait,wait, nothing, then the NPB, etc. They can drag it out for weeks, with the same result,no payment. It's not worth the effort trying to chase $8. As far as feedback, I've had bidders with zero feedback pay me by paypal 5 minutes after the auction ends, and I've also had people with feedback over 100 that never send the payment,or send it weeks after the auction ends. I don't rely on the feedback as a barometer for payment anymore.You never know.You have to realize when you deal with the public, you'll see just about everything. The good, the bad, the morons, and the nuts.
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MzThumpR
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posted on October 13, 2000 08:07:10 AM
Ok, while we're on the subject and before I forget to ask...
How often do you sell to the next highest bidder in the case of a deadbeat? And if you do, how do you word the letter you send to the next highest bidder?
I know you'd have to make an offer before requesting the FVF credit because you'd only get a partial credit in a case like this.
Just thought I'd get some opinions now in case I have to make the decision whether to go with the next highest bidder or relist.
Lisa
[ edited by MzThumpR on Oct 13, 2000 08:09 AM ]
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