posted on October 21, 2000 09:12:00 PM
After having read lonnnnnnng ago about the high incidence of fraudulent chargebacks associated with online credit card purchases, I have p-a-t-i-e-n-t-l-y awaited the advent of Billpoint's ELECTRONIC Check.
In alla the info for sellers about them, it is touted that the funds are 100% guaranteed and that NO chargebacks are allowed.
However, I've received a form email from Billpoint about an e-check being paid, and therein it states, that in the ""unlikely event of a chargeback" that the seller is solely responsible.
I tell you, I am SO sick of the SHODDY """"""service"""""" online sellers are SUBJECTED to!!
Anyway, it is OBVIOUS to me that there must be something very dangerous about e-checks, but of course since I am simply someone to SNOOKER, I am unable to locate the precise info WHY they are UN-SAFE.
Does anyone around here know?
The corporate attorneys & accountants for DISNEY/eBay require that any potential bidder at Disney auctions place a credit card on file.
But in the payment terms of service, the winner CANNOT pay by credit card, nope! The ONLY form of payment allowed is a 3-D check by snail mail.
I suspect that They know something about e-checks that the rest of us digitalpeons aren't sposed to know.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:31:47 PM
A chargeback on an e-check? That's news to me! And here I thought the advantage of taking e-checks was that they couldn't be charged back.
Oh well, count me among the snookered.
BTW, these double standards (i.e. more stringent, seller-friendly TOS) permitted for Disney STINK.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:37:05 PM
What exactly is an e-check, and what does it mean when my paypal account says "uncleared"? I had a bidder pay by echeck, and it still is sitting in uncleared status
posted on October 21, 2000 09:55:30 PM
With an e-check, you have to wait until the funds are cleared, fully guaranteed -- taken OUT of the customer's account, and afterwards deposited into yours. Takes about 4 days, and then a couple more before it hits your actual bank account.
posted on October 21, 2000 10:23:08 PM
Hi radh. I think e-checks are one of the safest payment methods to use on the internet. However, like regular paper checks, the funds need to be cleared and the merchandise shouldn't be shipped until you are notified that the e-check is good.
posted on October 21, 2000 10:39:19 PM
A lot of my bidders use BidPay. Its safe,fast getting my money order in 2 days after confirmation with out disclosing my bank accounts on line!
This is what the Billpoint seller guide says about their 100% guarantee:
What does the Billpoint payment guarantee mean?
The Billpoint payment guarantee means Billpoint will stand behind every Electronic Check transaction and will assume 100 percent responsibility for transactions that have been cleared and authorized by Billpoint. After Billpoint issues a payment confirmation to you, the seller, your payment is guaranteed. You will never have a returned check or returned check fees for that transaction. You will always be paid in full for each authorized Billpoint Electronic Check transaction.
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What exactly was the quote from the e-mail you received? Could it somehow have been in reference to credit cards?
posted on October 21, 2000 11:09:05 PM
main reason why ebay disney would take your check for purchase and not your Credit card is that a CC charge back can cost them in more then one way.
even though you can stop payment on a check it would cost you the buyer a fee more then its worth to stop payment
They dont so much worry about bank fees for returned checks since it just and to there tax write off for yearly losses and they also cost and cause the buyer more pain then it causes them .
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on October 21, 2000 11:15:11 PM
bhearsh: thanks for the link, i'll check it tomorrow.
upriver: i would NEVER accept ANY chargecard payment -- what I have read about fraudulent chargebacks is appalling -- and I have already had my finances & health irretrievable devestated via my participation in the OAI.
so i waited and waited and waited and waited --- ALMOST TWO FULL YEARS!!!!!
First off, when I listed my auctions, they did NOT even have a LOGO for e-checks.
And now I see that you are prolly right -- that the form letter I got is for ALL BILLPOINT INVOICES.
Inotherwords, see, I have been waiting months upon months for e-checks, and NOW --- after even waiting a long while AFTER the beta test, I have to conclude that these people don't even know WHY e-checks are IMPORTANT.
geeeeesH -- I mean this is DREADFUL - I am the stupid one, without ANY education -- but those PROFESSIONALS here they are, Corporate Carpetbaggers drooling over their percentage FROM OUR WORK --- and ya know what -- they gotta be CYBER-CLUELESS.
Do you have ANY idea HOW MANY emails I had to answer that I ONLY accept Billpoint e-checks, just as my TOS stated -- but see, last week they didn't have a logo -- just the Billpoint cc logo, and I don't accept cc payments.
I SHOULD TRUST MY E-BIZ TO PEOPLE WHO APPARENTLY DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SELLING ME AND WHY I WANT IT --- and please don't provide me with MORE hours of emails to FAKE SHAM """bidders""" who are amused writing to a dying olde biddy.
AND then, to top it all off --- e-checks ain't gooooood enuff for DIZZY, that just takes the CAKE!!
I will be glad when this is permanently ALL over and DONE!!!!
Meantime, here is what I got in my email -- two days LATE, and now I'm receiving DUPLICATE emails, and I sure as hell hope my customers ain't being re- and re-debited!!!!!!
"""Safety Tip: Billpoint makes every effort to help prevent chargebacks and to protect you from fraud. However, please be advised that in the rare instance where fraud or chargebacks may occur, you as the seller are ultimately responsible for that transaction. To find out how to avoid chargebacks or detect possible buyer fraud, please view our seller safety tips: http://www.billpoint.com/help/sellerguide/fraudtips.html """"
posted on October 21, 2000 11:20:46 PM
Recently I was the problem on an e-Check transaction. When I was looking at my credit card bill online I saw a charge for a NSF Check from the credit card company and my balance had last months bills on it. I called the credit card company and told them there was no way I could have an NSF Check as my balance was always ridiculously high. They asked me to check and see that my account number and routing number were correct. Yup, I had transposed 2 numbers in my bank account info.
The credit card company was very understanding and removed the NSF Charge from my account, so I'm happy. But I still wonder if the account number I entered by accident was a valid and the balance had been too low and I got some poor fellow a NSF Check fee from his bank which he had to straighten out. Then again what a nightmare it could have been for both of us if he had sufficient funds to have paid my credit card.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:21:15 PM
dmanL I know full well why DIZY doesn't accept ANY charge card payments, and I don't, either. I also understand why they don't take any money orders, either - as I've read again and again that there's lots & lots of counterfeit money orders, etc.
But they set up an e-Biz, and that they will not accept e-checks, when EVERYTHING Dummi here read about them stated they were the SAFEST form of payment - there's sumthin wrong with e-checks if DIZZY DUMBO won't take them.
They KNOW something that I do not know, and I wanna know WHAT it *is*.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:15:12 AM
Looks like echecks are no more or less safe than accepting paper checks. Looks like what echeck does is accept checks on behalf of a seller. *The Billpoint guarantee is limited.* "The Billpoint payment guarantee means Billpoint will stand behind every Electronic Check transaction and will assume 100 percent responsibility for transactions that have been cleared and authorized by Billpoint."
The operative words are "....transactions that have been cleared and authorized by Billpoint . "
"It takes three business days for Billpoint to verify that the buyer has sufficient funds to pay for your auction item. Once you receive your payment confirmation email from Billpoint, your payment is guaranteed, and we will initiate deposit into your bank account."
Essentially it looks like what echeck does is eliminate the paper, the buyer mailing the check and the seller depositing it. But all of the other rules apply. An echeck could be NSF and an echeck could have a Stop Payment put on it, which Billpoint can verify electronically and thus avoid NSF fees.
Sellers pay Billpoint to accept a check on behalf of the buyer and then clear the check on behalf of the seller. * It is at this point that Billpoint guarantees payment*. (This is what my bank does too only it doesn't notify me that the check has cleared). Then Billpoint gets to hold the funds while it transfers it to the sellers account
The seller is responsible for all chargebacks looks like a general CYA disclaimer that Billpoint adds to everything.....just in case. If a seller accepts an echeck and sends the item right away without waiting for the Billpoint confirmation, then too bad for the seller if the check is NSF.
If anyone gets any other information from Billpoint please post it.
posted on October 22, 2000 12:06:54 PMradh, transactions via electronic checks are handled through a secure server or a payment gateway that encrypts the information and in order to accept electronic funds, the merchant needs to use a Merchant Account Provider (MAP) like http://www.charge.com to process the e-check or he needs to have special hardware or a software program that integrates the code into the Web site in order to effectively link the customers to a secure server - like http://www.echecksecure.com. The stand alone programs for e-check processing charge a fee based on either a percentage or per transaction since these programs include the necessary verification methods to limit risks due to insufficient funs, stop payment, etc. (see echecksecure) Since Disney doesn't take any form of electronic payment or credit/debit cards, maybe they feel the process needed to take e-checks as a payment option is too cumbersome and or costly. I really can't find another reason for them not to offer e-checks.
smw, Billpoint does state that there are NO chargebacks allowed on e-checks and once the seller receives the confirmed notice the payment is guaranteed and the item can be shipped.I think you're right about the general chargeback disclaimer but if the e-check funds have been confirmed by Billpoint, the seller will not be issued a chargeback because the buyer has given up any chargeback rights per Billpoint's User Agreement.
The Billpoint user agreement states:
Quote
"If payment is made by electronic check, once Billpoint notifies the seller that Billpoint has confirmed the sufficiency of funds in the buyer's bank account and that the seller may ship the goods that are the subject of the transaction, the seller will not be responsible for any chargeback or similar risk if it turns out that there are not sufficient funds in the buyer's bank account or information provided by the buyer was fraudulent.
If you are a buyer in an electronic check transaction, you acknowledge that you do not have any chargeback rights available to you by statute or regulation if, after payment, you are dissatisfied with the goods delivered to you or with some other aspect of the transaction. In that circumstance, you will have to resolve any dispute directly with the seller."
End Quote
posted on October 22, 2000 12:56:22 PM
All consumer bank accounts are covered by federal law, which generally allows the account owner to claim forgery regarding any withdrawal, for a limited period.
This right cannot be bargained away even by the account holder (and is why most ATM machines have cameras). Clearly, a forger could not agree to forgo the right on behalf of the rightful account owner, so if a crook managed to convince Billpoint to accept payment from someone else's account, a "chargeback" would surely follow.
Banks are generally lenient with regards to the time limit. After all, the bank does not usually lose, they take their money back (indirectly) from whomever deposited it. A chargeback, if you will, and having nothing at all to do with credit cards. Check out the fine print on your bank account, and you will find that you very much agreed to have such items withdrawn from your account without any explicit permission.
I don't know how Billpoint handles such cases, we've not had any reports that I can recall.
