posted on October 21, 2000 10:20:56 PM new
I know this has been done to death, but I got VERO'ed for an MS product that was sealed, never used.
They gave me this to write to MS about:
The auction number and title
A full detail of what the product is
Where I AQUIRED IT?
I did,
Gave them the auction # (now pulled) the title, a description, and that I bought it on EBAY a year ago, and never opened it, and decided I didn't need it.
I also told them there are TEN pages of the exact thing, running and getting bids, and completed search shows same software completed.
They say they 'own the copyright'-ok I buy that, so I wrote and told them this.
If I got to say my local CompUSA store, buy a MS software product with my money, then I don't own it? Does this mean I am only 'using' it, and you may ask for it back at any time?
I know that sounded sarcastic, but I was a little ticked seeing all the very same ones going. I cc'd it to whyended@ebay (the email that informed me my auction was cancelled)
They wrote their little spiel, and did tell me that I should report these auctions.
I am not going to do that.
Still sucks. Don't understand these VERO people, never will. If I buy something with my own money, and it is NOT a copy or fake, I can't resell the damned thing. I didn't need it, so I decided to sell it, I searched ebay before I put it up, and there were pages of them going, so I thought it ok. So I buy, but I actually don't own it? Is it illegal to give the thing away? I'll never understand this bs.
posted on October 22, 2000 01:12:38 AM new
If the software was still sealed--it couldn't have ever been installed on anyone's computer. I don't think they should have closed that auction.
I thought the whole idea of them not wanting their software sold was that someone could install it on their machine and then sell it to someone else to install on their machine--cheating Microsoft out of a sale.
There is no way you have cheated them out of anything if the software is sealed up!
cybercat
--
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
posted on October 22, 2000 05:49:22 AM new
What is the title of the software? If it is a CD that came packaged with a new computer (and not a retail copy bought off the shelf), it will say "Not For Resale" or something like that. These are OEM copies and cannot legally be sold to someone else unless you sell the computer that it came with and include the software with the computer.
I know this sucks and in my IMO is a bad rule, but that's the way it is. It also sucks when there are zillions of other items identical to yours on eBay and yours is the only one that gets yanked.
posted on October 22, 2000 06:17:21 AM new
[quote]They say they 'own the copyright'-ok I buy that, so I wrote and told them this.
If I got to say my local CompUSA store, buy a MS software product with my money, then I don't own it? Does this mean I am only 'using' it, and you may ask for it back at any time?[/quote]
Basically, what you thought was a sarcastic response is right on the money. Next time, actually READ one of those agreements after you load some software. You're LICENSING the software, not buying it and they could, if they chose, ask for it back. In practice, that doesn't happen, but they do have the right to do it.
posted on October 22, 2000 06:27:26 AM new
CleverGirl is correct. Software is not sold, it is licensed. When you go to CompUSA and buy a software package, you're buying the CD for your own personal use. The software on the CD remains the property of the manufacturer and your use of it is governed by the user agreement that most people never read.
Let'say that I buy a $500 software package from Microsoft. I use my CD burner to make copies and sell the copies. Microsoft can not only confiscate the illegal copies, but the original that I "bought" as well. Why? Because I broke the user agreement.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:22:46 AM new
If it was bought on Ebay a year ago, it could very well be something that cannot be legally sold by itself. Do a search on "Microsoft OEM" and you will see that almost all auctions have been VERO'd. If it is an OEM copy, it must be sold with a computer, hard drive, or motherboard. The loophole is that there are no requirements as to the type or condition of the motherboard or hard drive. You can legally bundle Microsoft Windows 98 OEM with a dead 286 Motherboard or a broken 40 mb Hard Drive. Look closely at the non-Vero'd OEM auctions and you will see this trick in use.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:36:32 AM new
Adobe does the same thing vero'ing and ebay does the naru'ing
please help on what to do to sell adobe softwares
they pass some up--same description etc. and a few-they vero. I was vero'ed for selling full retail sealed packages and then naru'ed by ebay because of adobe.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:40:29 AM new
I've sold a lot of software on ebay. Read the license CAREFULLY. Some peices are only legal to the first buyer, and CAN NOT be transfered, some are legal only in the US (some in US and Canada), and some are legal only with the peice of hardware they came with.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:56:31 AM new
mtech66:
When Adobe comes out with a new version of PhotoShop, PageMaker, etc., they buy back the old versions from the retailers and distibution channel to avoid the "liquidation" of their products. The reason for this is twofold. First, if version 8 is $699 and version 7 is on clearance for $99, they will lose sales on the new version and erode their profits. It will also devalue the new version. The second reason is that most products are also released as an upgrade version for a discounted price which is often as much as 75% off the full version price. If you could go to the store and buy version 7 for $99 and the version 8 upgrade for $99, no one would buy the full version for $699.
posted on October 22, 2000 08:54:15 AM new
Oh Great so what your all saying is like this
I go down to the DMV to take my driveing test and I get a LICENSE But now I can never sell the car I am driveing cause I can never own it im only LICENSED to drive it.
IM not sure my wife will like this when she finds out in order to get a new car the only way she can do it is to sell the driver LICENSED to driver that it came with then again maybe she would like this
I never ever wondered why many tech companys are loseing profits as there sales dry up maybe if they loosened up some and allowed the sale of new softwear person to person and allow the market decide the price sales would go up again.
I mean think about it how many people would run out and buy all these up dates and new programs if you could pay what you felt it worth to you even if the price turned out to worth more to one buyer then another.
Someone who really wants a program might pay or bid it up to $300 while someone with less money or need that just wants to see what it is all about might only pay $20 it would all balance out but either way with more and more people getting new computers and old ones for that matter would be inclined to buy this new softwear more often without complaints since they paid there price for it.
sharewear and freewear has mostly alway worked this way there LICENSING say it ok to give this away and many just require after useing the program for 30 or 60 day you donate what you feel it worth they give you an Idea of a fair price and leave it at that.
Right here I have it, right next to it I have the box for Frontpage I bought at a store, that is a chain store up here, anyway, it had been opened and it still has on the front of it, Not For Resale Report Violations to 1-800-RU-LEGIT on it. In fact Frontpage has 2 stickers, that one, and a bright orange one that says Not For Resale.
They sell used books and software in good condition, FP was bought for $50.
This one that I tried to ebay, I don't remember what I paid, but doesn't have that, it DOES have a sticker saying 'by opening this disc case, you indicate your acceptance or the Microsoft License Agreement. This one has never been opened. And nothing like FrontPage has on it.
Is it easier for MS to do this to Ebayers than these chain stores?
One more question.Why is there still tons of the same software on ebay?
And do you think it was another seller who turned me in for selling what he is, or does MS wade thru all of these and pick and choose?
posted on October 22, 2000 09:15:13 AM new
checking the adobe and MS Visual C++ sites
you have to say in the listing
Not Academic,
Not OEM
Not NFR
Full Retail Guaranteed
Fully registratable with MS or Adobe
and show a picture of the full retail version
sealed etc.
posted on October 22, 2000 09:20:58 AM new
I must have missed the Not OEM, Not NFR, but did not miss that you can register this with MS. The key codes (or whatever they are called) are in it.
It was fully pictured.
The title was: MS Visual C++-Sealed
Started it at $5. and would have been happy with that
posted on October 22, 2000 09:58:06 AM new
Unless your disc is a full version in a RETAIL BOX it is probably illegitimate.
What happens is that the computer manufacturers license a large number of CDs to be sold with new computer systems. Then they take one CD and use it to install the software on all the machines. The rest of the discs get sold separately, in violation of the license.
The software manufacturers know about the problem and tolerate it, except occasionally they beat up on some vendor so they can complain about "piracy."
posted on October 22, 2000 10:18:28 AM newOh Great so what your all saying is like this I go down to the DMV to take my driveing test and I get a LICENSE But now I can never sell the car I am driveing cause I can never own it im only LICENSED to drive it.
No...more like you can't sell your driver's license to your 13-year-old neighbor no matter how much she wants to drive. Or think of it like leasing a car. Once the lease is up, you can't sell the car to your nephew because you don't own it.
[ edited by reamercollector on Oct 22, 2000 10:19 AM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 10:28:22 AM new
The ONE time I had a software auction pulled it was a copy of an operating system that was on 8 inch floppy disks. (Remember those?)
This software was over 20 years old, and I figured it was so old that it was a collectable, and no one would care. The license read that it could only be transfered with the CPU. Yup, they pulled it, but did tell me I could relist it if I placed a disclaimer in the auction that it was being sold without a license, and the buyer was not to use it unless they bought a license. It went for $86.00 (it had been bid up to $160 before it was pulled.)
I read all the licneses very carefully now.
[ edited by Microbes on Oct 22, 2000 10:35 AM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 11:01:07 AM new
Well this one is the old ver.? '93 it reads. and it can be licensed when someone opens it, so it says, and does not say Not for Resale or any of that other stuff.
I remember those 8 inch floppys and even the 3.5 ones too! LOL,
This one is a CD.
Sell a car you leased? uh, um yep thats illegal!
Sell your drivers license, um yep thats illegal too, yikes!
posted on October 22, 2000 11:02:16 AM new
reamercollector
LOL my comment was made for its humor value only not in seriousness
and your right everyone know to sell your driver's license to your nieghbor kid you should be responcsable enough to ask for ID proveing they are at least 15 years old and a none drinker and that they would never smoke in the car that must be sold with the driver's license .
posted on October 22, 2000 11:17:55 AM new
This is one of those areas where it would be nice if ebay had some backbone, and would challenge the DMCA in court. There are a lot of aspects of the DMCA are are on pretty weak ground constitutional.
It seems to restrict freedom of speech, epecially it its arbitary application.
It seems to restrict ones right to a trial by jury in cases with a value over $20.00
It pretty much allows a big company to get injunctions on demand without review or accountability from the court system, which means that congress has screwed around with the seperation of powers.
Their is also the issue of equal protection under the law. Why do we have to jump thru hoops, but someone who sells the same item thru a newspaper classified can list:
"MS Visual C++ 6.0 $70 obo"
The DMCA was cramed down our throats by special interest groups who claimed that sky was falling because Joe Six-Pack might sell a promo copy, or his academic copy from college. The reality is that piracy is as strong as every, and DMCA is useless... just try this for an example... to go to yahoo
and search for Fosi+Appz or look at the usenet newsgroups in the binaries range.
I for one feel it is better for 100 bootleggers to go free then for one legit seller to have an auction whacked.
I think the repeal of the DMCA should be one of the top ten goals for on-line sellers.
posted on October 22, 2000 11:20:11 AM new
>Microbes- was the software IBM S 34 or S 36?
RT-11 for Digital PDP-11's
>Those CPU's were the size of washing machine or refrigator weren't they?
The CPU itself (which I sold in another auction) was 85 lbs. It had two harddrives that weighed 90 lbs. each. The dual floppy drive weighed 65 lbs. The whole setup was on 2 roll-around carts, each the size of a washing machine.
>Good price ya got for that! Collectible, I'd probably say, yeah it was. Good deal!
I was given the cpu, software, and a truck load of spare parts someone wanted out of their garage. I got over $1400.00 by the time I split it all up into about 40 auctions. (The "owners manual" brought me $138.00)
