posted on October 21, 2000 10:42:28 PM
As both a seller and a bidder, I make it my policy to leave feedback for the person I conduct my transactions with on Ebay. As a seller, I post my feedback as soon as funds are received or checks are cleared. As a buyer I always leave feedback when my merchandise is received in satisfactory condition. Seems simple enough, doesn't it? Why is it then, that all too often, when I pay a seller for an item, they won't leave feedback for my prompt and reliable funds until I have received my merchandise, and posted feedback for them first? I feel that the seller should have posted feed back for me as soon as my payment was received in good standing. What are they waiting for? Waiting to leave feedback based upon the feedback I leave them? I say, post your feedback based on the merits of my timely and good payment and not upon how well I rate them on thier ability to hold up thier end of the transaction. Don't play games with the feedback! No more, "Oh, you go first, then I'll go". Just grow up and post the feedback accordingly and at the appropriate time. Thanks for listening, I do feel better now!
posted on October 21, 2000 10:46:41 PM
Because that is the way that they hve decided to run their business. They feel the transaction is not complete until the buyer has received the item and liked it. End of transaction.
Their way may not be your way---but it works for them--and that's why they do it that way.
Stop sweating the small stuff.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:08:28 PM
I am both a Buyer and a Seller on Ebay. As such, I look at it from both sides.
This has never happened to my, but to a friend: The Seller left Positive feedback when the money was received, shipped the item immediately (uninsured at the buyer's choice). Buyer never received the item, and left a negative feedback for the seller. Is that fair?
Based on that, my feeling now, is that the sale is not concluded until the Buyer has the item in hand. Then it should be up to the Buyer to let the Seller know:
1. the item is in hand.
2. the item is acceptable or not.
Once notified, the Seller should leave Feedback for the buyer. If the Buyer does not leave feedback, that is his/her choice.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:31:52 PM
I alway Alway use to leave feed back for buyer at the time I received payment BUT !!!!
in the past few months there is a trend out here I had to stop leaveing feed back untill after the buyer received there goods.
one of the trends is this buyer gets rated frist when I get payment then forgets me all togeather 0 feed back after selling on Ebay for 7 months was more buyer lazyness then I could handle.
The other trend ok buyer have been playing games I give Postive feed back good payment I paid there insurance and all and I ship Item priority and insured buyer already has good feed back from me I know I did a good job packing even paid extra outa my share for priority so they get item fast and insure so no one loses in case of damage.
buyer will NOT EMAIL ME to saying I have damage NO buyer will NEG ME saying I have damaged goods When I email buyer asking about the damage and telling them I paid the insurance I would like to see a picture of the damage and package they write back and say oh dont worry it wasnt all that bad I wont need to make a claim the box was crushed on a corner and so I think there wasnt enough packaging or some dum thing now I have a neg claiming they got damaged goods all they got was a damaged box that was maybe dropped during shipping They have postive great buyer rateing .
NOW I NEVER RATE any buyer with a positive great buyer rateing untill they truely are a great buyer who emails the buyer to work out problems as they should before useing feed back never rate a buyer before I know they are not going to make questionable damage claims. and when I here from the buyer they got there Item and all is well I write back makeing a big deal out of the fact I am heading over to ebay to leave them great feed back and usually in a few hours feed back for me shows up and usually it positive as well .
posted on October 21, 2000 11:34:29 PM
Papermemories, I agree, that was unfair to your friend, but still, does that change the bearing on your friends good feedback for having received the payment in a good manner? Or does that entitle your friend to leave bad feedback even though the payment came in a timely and good manner? If the person I transact with deserves a good rating based on their performance, then that is what I give them. If I am dissatisfied with the other person I am dealing with, I always try to work it out through e-mail communication before resorting to a negative feedback posting. The person your friend dealt with should have communicated better and been made to understand that the the seller can not be held responsible for uninsured transactions. No matter what happens, there will always be the jerks out there that use the feedback system irresponsibly. Thanks for your input.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:46:06 PM
Dman3, You make a good point, I'm almost swayed by your argument. You have also touched on another subject that really peeves me. You have no idea how many transactions I have conducted and left feedback for, only to be shunned and receive no return feedback for all my hard efforts to fulfill my end of the bargain. Like you, going above and beyond sometimes, when the shipping costs are a little more than expected. The people failing to leave feedback at all are another problem altogether, to be sure. What is a person to do?
posted on October 21, 2000 11:48:41 PM
As a seller I leave feedback on payment and ask the buyer to plese return the gesture.
As a buyer I leave feedback if I'm satisfied, provided that the seller has left feedback. I will only leave feedback first as a buyer if hell freezes over.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:52:57 PM...there will always be the jerks out there that use the feedback system irresponsibly...
which jerks make it imperative that a seller protect his/her FB rating.
There are the jerks who pass bad checks, the jerks who switch merchandise, the jerks who turn schizo after-the-fact, the newbie jerks who haven't learned how to email yet, etc., etc.
A seller's FB rating can mean the difference between selling or starving. It's too important to irresponsibly or naively place in the hands of a zero-FB-with-shades bidder, IMO.
posted on October 22, 2000 12:39:00 AM
This is my sad story - She paid promptly.
I shipped promptly. Never heard a word 'til
I noticed NEGATIVE feedback (Said it arrived
"broken". I e-mailed and explained it might have been better to have let me know
about the breakage (it was insured) before
posting negative feedback. She said she
didn't know it would "hurt" me and didn't
understand why I was so upset. Said she was
new to ebay and "not really up on these things". WOW!!! It was my first neg out of
270 some. I refunded, she said she had
"fixed" the damage and that it really wasn't
"that bad". NOW, she never gave me a chance
to make the breakage "right" before negging me. There is a lot more to being a good
buyer than simply sending the check on time.
She was an unreasonable buyer who did hurt me
but if I then give her other-than-glowing
feedback, would that be considered retaliatory??? or justified in light of what
she did as a buyer?
posted on October 22, 2000 12:48:41 AM
shopchicly, WOW!! What a horror story. You make a real strong argument. Maybe I need to rethink my policy on immediate feedback, even if the funds are good and prompt. Your story sheds new light on this subject, thanks.
posted on October 22, 2000 12:50:27 AMshopchicly, Good for you for doing the honorable thing, despite that neg. (Don't know if I could have been as gracious under the same circumstances.)
Have you asked the bidder to add a correction?
'cause it's late
[ edited by fountainhouse on Oct 22, 2000 12:51 AM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 12:53:05 AM
shopchicly-
Chalk it up...
You'd feel bad since you understand the buyer was new. Heck when I was new my first impression about feedback was how based on how happy I was with the item... I had no idea how importantly it reflects on a seller.
Yeah- I'm a firm feedback person, many will say "feedback shouldn't be such a big deal if you get 1 or 2" hummm.... Now that eBay added the option to veiw up to 500 feedbacks at one time, it's simple to find that big ole red "neg" when scrolling down the long list of positives.
I'd like to think it doesn't matter very much, but when I bid - you better believe I check the feedback first & just like when I rubberneck on the highway at an accident, I seek out that one "neg" and my opinion is greatly influenced. Sad but true...
btw- I only give feedback to a buyer after I get positive feedback from he/she first.
IMHO It's only good business sense! - But I'd never neg back in a situation like yours, but I'd neg a real poophead in a heartbeat and sleep peacefully!
------------------
So... Now what do you consider as "just old junk" since you've found eBay?
posted on October 22, 2000 05:58:08 AM
I, too, search for that "one red neg." What I've found is that almost always, if a good seller has only one neg, and then you check the feedback of the person who left it - you'll find a nincompoop.
IMHO, "iTem broke bad seller woodnt gife refun" isn't negative feedback, it's an advertisement as to the poster's idiocy.
posted on October 22, 2000 06:04:27 AMI feel that the seller should have posted feed back for me as soon as my payment was received in good standing.
Where on earth did this idea come from anyway? The buyer making prompt payment is only a small part of a transaction, just as the seller making prompt shipment is likewise just a small part.
There are several steps to a transaction that go well beyond payment and shipment, not the least of which is good-faith problem resolution by both parties. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer has the merchandise and lets the seller know that s/he is satisfied. If unsatisfied, the buyer needs to give the seller a chance to make him/her satisfied.
There is a reason that feedback is transaction related, as opposed to payment related.
Edited for speeeling...
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Oct 22, 2000 06:06 AM ]
posted on October 22, 2000 06:23:49 AM
I can't say it any better than that. Feedback is meant to be a comment on the ENTIRE transaction, including how each party handled the resolution of any problems. How can a seller adequately reflect the entire transaction by leaving feedback immediately after payment? As a buyer, I leave feedback as soon as I receive the item and inspect it. As a seller, I've adopted a policy of leaving feedback on completion of the transaction, i.e. when the buyer lets me know that s/he's received the merchandise OK. That can be via email or feedback, and once I have that info, I leave feedback. If I don't hear anything, I send an email asking. I figure that anyone who can't bother to hit the "Reply" key and type in "OK" doesn't really care anyway. In following up on the ones who don't respond, they have rarely left ANY feedback. Obviously, maintaining the integrity of the feedback system is not a priority for them, so why give them feedback? I suppose I could start leaving neutrals that say "Received payment promptly; shipped item. No communication from buyer since then." I'm sure that some buyers would view that as being as bad as a negative, so I figure it's best to just leave NO feedback. (It would be pretty accurate, though, wouldn't it???? At least any other seller who was waiting for a response would see that s/he probably wasn't going to get one. Hmmmm.....food for thought.)
posted on October 22, 2000 06:49:19 AM
Before I post my opinion, let me state that I am a seller and I own a retail store...
The buyer's responsibility ends with the payment. (in the case of a check, after it clears) This is when feedback should be posted by the seller.
The seller's responsibility ends when the customer is satisfied. This is when the bidder should post feedback.
If I pay for my auction item quickly, I should receive positive feedback for the transaction. If the item arrives damaged or never arrives and the seller fails to handle the situation properly he/she deserves a negative. Whether or not the bidder gets irate and unreasonable during this process has nothing to do with their reputation as a buyer. If you send me a broken item and refer me to your bogus TOS that states you are not responsible once the item leaves your hand, I have a right to be angry.
PaperMemories:
The Seller left Positive feedback when the money was received, shipped the item immediately (uninsured at the buyer's choice). Buyer never received the item, and left a negative feedback for the seller. Is that fair?
Yes, absolutely, it is fair. A sellers responsibility for an item does not end at the post office. Whoever came up with this BS needs to read a few books on business ethics. If you purchased something from the JC Penney catalog and never received it, would you accept "we mailed it" as an excuse and pay the bill anyway ? Of course not. Then why would you expect anyone else to ?
We have had several items damaged during shipment and in every case we immediatly responded to the customer with an offer of replacement or refund. Yes, we lost money on some, but at the end of the year we still make a profit. So far, no negatives and in every case the customer left us positive feedback and purchased from us again.
posted on October 22, 2000 06:59:19 AM
[i]We have had several items damaged during shipment and in every case we immediatly responded to the customer with an offer of replacement or refund. Yes, we lost money on some, but at the end of the year we still make a profit. So far, no negatives and in every case the customer left us positive feedback and purchased from us again.
[/i]
You've been very lucky. Would you still feel the same, had one or more of those buyers been completely unreasonable and laid the blame for the problems on you in the form of negative feedback despite all your efforts? I don't believe that the buyer's responsibility ends with payment--s/he also has a responsibility to make a good faith effort to resolve any problems that occur after that point, and IMO, a responsibility to acknowledge receipt of the item (unlike a brick and mortar shop, we don't see our buyers walking out the door with their purchases). However, each of us has a right to conduct our business according to our opinions, and should continue to do so.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:02:27 AM
I totally agree with abingdoncomputers and others who state that "payment" and "shipment" are just a part of the transaction. There is NO WAY I am going to post feedback when the payment is received.
I explain on my ME page, and in my Thank You note that goes with the item, that feedback will be posted when I'm notified that the item has arrived and all is well. I emphasize in the note that "YOU DO NOT HAVE TO POST FEEDBACK FOR US FIRST - JUST LET US KNOW THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE ITEM".
I recently received a rather curt email from a buyer, that "The book arrived thank you." Out of curiosity, I checked to see what kind of feedback he's left, and he has left none, although he's received over 30 positives. I left positive feedback for him, knowing I'm going to get none, because he fulfilled his end of the transaction.
If a buyer considers their end of the transaction COMPLETED when I get their payment, then I don't want to hear from them if something is wrong; their right to contact me and complain ended when they COMPLETED their part of the transaction.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:08:29 AMWhether or not the bidder gets irate and unreasonable during this process has nothing to do with their reputation as a buyer.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:12:27 AM
I am a seller and have started emailing my customers telling them to email me when they receive their item(s) and that I will post feedback only after they have. So far no problem. It avoids any potential misunderstandings and possible negative feedback (after you have already left positive).
This way if there is a potential problem it can be resolved before feedback is posted by either party.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:13:28 AM
Mr. Jim, I think you'll change your tune the first time it happens to you.
We ship hundreds of items a week around the world. We notify every person when their item has been shipped. With our notification, we remind them that all of our product is guaranteed. If their are any problems, we ask them to please contact us so that we can fix the problem. We provide a phone number that they can reach a real person if they want. We happily reship items that may have been lost. We gladly replace products that get damaged in transit and refund the cost the buyer incurred to send it back to us. We offer full refunds on items returned to us including the cost of return shipping, no questions asked. We are always polite, always understanding.
However, there is a small percentage of people out there that simply do not read our emails or do not care what we offer. If there is a problem, the first thing they do is post negative feedback without giving us a chance to make things right.
And we are happy to reciprocate those negatives as well.
Why? The feedback system is transaction based. Sellers need to know if a Buyer is unwilling to act reasonably. The Buyer end of the transaction is not simply payment. The Buyer must also be satisfied with the item. If they are unsatisfied, and options are already provided to rectify the situation, then the Buyer should be using those options. If a Buyer is so unreasonable that they are unwilling to accept a refund or a replacement for something that was damaged in transit and instead post a negative, I believe the Seller is obligated to post a negative as well. You cannot do that if you have posted Positive feedback upon receipt of payment.
Sellers who post Positive feedback upon receipt of payment are not fulfilling their end of the feedback loop. Payment is not enough to warrant it.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:14:05 AM
We leave feedback once a week. (much easier, and less time consuming.)
The one Neg we've gotten was from a buyer who CLAIMED an Item was damaged, and wanted a "Partial Refund". They where offered a full refund, including shipping costs both ways, and turned it down, telling us they would neg us if we didn't give them half their money back, and let them keeep the merchandise. We refused, and took a NEG. (the only one out of 700 feedbacks)
We havn't changed our policy about when we leave feedback, but this is what can happen when the buyer gets a glowing positive (as this jerk did) before they let you know they are happy. It gave this jerk a "Free shot" at extorting money from us. We took the neg, and figure (after we cooled down) that one neg out of 700 feedbacks just shows that small percent of cheating buyers that we won't take certain kinds of crap.
posted on October 22, 2000 07:46:36 AM
genxmike: Mr. Jim, I think you'll change your tune the first time it happens to you.
I would have to disagree. I have been in business for many years. We set our policies to best service the majority of our customers. We know that there will be an occasional problem, but unless it happens more than 10% of the time it does not justify a change in policy. Example: Every item paid for by personal check is shipped by us immediately. Why ? Because the national average for bounced checks is under 2%, so why make the other 98% of your customers wait for their item.
Many post sale disputes are the fault of the seller by not following these simple steps:
Use honest and accurate descriptions.
Include clear photos in your listing.
Disclose any damage or irregularities no matter how small.
Assume responsibility for your items until they reach the customer. If this means insuring the package, then do so. If you cannot afford to absorb the cost, add it to the cost of the item or the shipping charge and explain that in your auction description. IE: "To guarantee that your investment is protected during shipment, we insure all shipments. This cost is included in the shipping charge"
posted on October 22, 2000 08:01:50 AM
As a seller, I always leave feedback when the item is shipped.
As a buyer, I learned the hard way to NEVER to leave feedback first. I won an item, I paid via PayPal per seller's EOA. 5 days later I receive item. I post positive feedback for seller (afterall, I am happy with item). Keep in mind seller has never left feedback or had any other contact after EOA. Approximately 15 days later (been a while so I'm not sure of exact length of time), seller files NPB on me, I email protesting, I send fax (that is their contact info) showing proof of payment. I get one email from seller that says "Thanks, email received". 10 days later seller files FVF and negs me. I was able to prove to ebay that I paid so they removed the warning from my account. But the neg that says AVOID DEADBEAT BIDDER is there for all the world to see. By the way, the seller never apologized.
So will I ever leave feedback for a seller first? Not likely.
posted on October 22, 2000 09:14:50 AM
I leave feedback for every buyer who paid 1)in under a month, 2)whose check didn't bounce, and 3)who didn't short me on the amount they owed, whether I ever heard from them or not. I assume they are happy because they didn't say otherwise. I do this whenever I clean out my records for that particular batch of auctions, usually 45 days after the auction closed. I never mention feedback at any point in the transaction. They can leave it if/when they want to, or not, whatever.
If a buyer does feedback me before the 45 days are up, I leave reciprocal feedback right away, if the above conditions were met.
posted on October 22, 2000 10:26:32 AM
I always left feedback when I received their payment and after I have sent the package many don't leave a feedback which I really don't care about but it would be nice if they would. Well, I purchased a book and I emailed the seller and told her I would send payment right away and she answered after you receive your book and in good condition, please email me and I will leave feedback for you. I think I am going to start that. I also in my package send a letter it states. "It was a pleasure doing business with you and if you have a spare moment, drop me an email and let me know that your item has arrived safe and sound." I don't think that many of my buyers read it because I seldom hear from them, then what kind of a feed back do you leave?
posted on October 22, 2000 10:36:19 AM
I'm mostly a buyer but sell occasionally. I figure the seller has all the advantages in the transaction -- the seller has the money in hand and knows the buyer isn't a flake long before the buyer ever gets the merchandise.
As a seller I leave feedback when I send the item. As a buyer I always leave feedback when I receive the item and find that it was as described...IF...the seller has left feedback for me.
posted on October 22, 2000 10:38:23 AM
When payment is made, MY PART OF THE TRANSACTION is complete. Seller who is fair and runs a legitimate business will leave feedback immediately upon receipt of funds.
Everyone else who WAITS until I receive my item and I post feedback FIRST is probably doing something wrong and is afraid of his customers. * VERY BAD business practice *
You'll never get my repeat business doing that. I hope everyone does that...
please don't tell me you're "TOO BUSY" to post if after you get my payment. You had time to post the auction right? I'll take you 10th of the time to leave feedback.
posted on October 22, 2000 10:39:51 AM
In two years on eBay I have only received two negatives.
I got my second one yesterday.I had left positive feedback for the customer after receiving payment.
After the customer won my auction and paid for it with Paypal they discovered that the same item was on my web site for less money.
They wanted to know if I would honour my web site price. I related that I would give them a 10% discount off their next purchase as the underbidder had bid over the web site price and it wouldn't be fair to them.
Another email from them indicated that they thought this was fair and that they would more than likely buy another of the same items and that they were looking at other items on my web site.
This is the negative I received as a results:
Complaint: Item is irrepairably damaged and seller will not respond to any emails about it!
Response: The Facts: No email/phone call. Item was insured. Could have been resolved.
They never sent an email that the item was broken, and the item was insured.
Apparently the customer (Feedback of 24) was unhappy with my offer and decided to leave me negative feedback because of it. As a results I have changed my "Item Has Been Shipped" statement to say the following;
POSITIVE FEEDBACK by you will indicate that you have received your merchandise and that you are happy with your purchase, at which time I will leave positive feedback.
If you are unhappy with your purchase please let me know so we can resolve the problem.
I will never again leave positive feedback until I am sure the customer is satisfied.
posted on October 22, 2000 10:41:55 AM
What works for me is to email the seller that I received the item and am happy, then if I see a feedback from the seller, I respond accordingly. If not well they know I got the item.
Of course if I am unhappy and they do nothing to make me happy... I will post feedback then...
Ain't Life Grand...
. I e-mailed and explained it might have been better to have let me know
IMHO It's only good business sense! - But I'd never neg back in a situation like yours, but I'd neg a real poophead in a heartbeat and sleep peacefully!
Now what do you 
consider as 
since you've found 
eBay?