posted on October 23, 2000 05:26:11 PM
Wonder if this sudden ANNOUNCEMENT had anything to do with the long talk we had with CNET today about ebaY outages - wanna make a bet???? We are OUTRAGED about this!!!!!!!!
Sure is a shame they did not tell their sellers this BEFORE they did it - so folks could have held off from listing for a few weeks - or at least listed with the knowledge that they MIGHT not have auctions that were able to get bids. If ebaY knew all this - sounds to me like they defrauded their sellers by charging for a service they KNEW in advance they would not be able to provide!!!
This was the EXACT same excuse that ebaY gave the last time the system had outages - see article - EBay Says Glitches May Continue to Hamper Auctions for 10 Days By Greg Wiles San Jose, California, Aug. 11 (Bloomberg)
So these are the SAME updates and here we are MONTHS later with the same problems - when does it let up? And when do they start warning us in advance?????
AND talk about LIES - every time they posted about a "temporary" outage WITHOUT telling us it was an INTENTIONAL action on ebaYs part - they LIED LIED LIED LIED LIED. This company has NO ethics!!! - Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry
http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
[ edited by rnrgroup on Oct 23, 2000 05:26 PM ]
posted on October 23, 2000 05:32:16 PM
I'm not saying this in defense of ebay, but...
In the midst of most of the outages, keyword search, bidding and the like have been working. I've gotten plenty of bids during these "outages". Only mention it 'cause it's fact.
Oh, and I've placed some bids during the outages as well.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 23, 2000 05:37 PM ]
posted on October 23, 2000 05:37:18 PM
I would much prefer that they had shared this information some time back, so that sellers can make their own determinations about what kind of merchandise to list, WHEN to list it, and HOW MUCH to list.
I am very glad, however, that a long detailed announcement finally has been made, as frankly, I'd simply concluded that they'd been hacked royally, which is not conducive to a feeling of site safety & security, to say the least.
I think, though, that until a really long time from now, that it's very important for sellers to realize that the site can crash at ANY instant - hey, this is the early Internet. I do NOT think it wise for sellers to be presuming that all their auctions will NOT be ending during down time, and to incorporate this caution in to their listing plans.
posted on October 23, 2000 05:49:18 PM
I am reminded of what I read in the book, eBoys -- the venture capitalists tell oneanother to NEVER trust what the techies tell ya, as they always underexaggerate the actual extent of the problem.
I used seller search several times, and got back "USERID NOT FOUND" which led me to believe that people who were NOT NARU, actually were naru. <sigh>
posted on October 23, 2000 05:56:38 PM
radh - Just a comment - I am a techie and from personal experience, we usually give worse case scenario - and why something shouldn't be implemented just to meet a 'corporate' deadline with known problems - usually we get outvoted because they promised upper management that something *will* happen by such and such date - it goes in, fails, and the techies get the blame....even though we vehemently told them functionality was not 100% (usually not even 50%). And then we end up spending more time trying to fix something that is live on the system and correcting the problems it caused then we would have if given the proper amount of time to actually test and debug beforehand!
posted on October 23, 2000 05:59:24 PM
Ebay has been up and running here in Ohio all night. On seller search problem, even though I couldn't pull just selling items in my ebay, if I hit ALL selection it showed my auctions.
However, bids are not showing in search listings, drives me crazy. Go in to make a bid and the bidding is way beyond what showed in listing. What a waste of time.
posted on October 23, 2000 06:03:43 PM
jmjones6061: Thanks for such a nice post, I feel a LOT better. You see, I was starting to wonder if I am the only person around whose personal full-fledged geek friends are VERY serious about accurately stating all the hazards and problems.
I would, after reading your words, perhaps wonder if the techies would have liked to communicate with us much earlier.
I would be willing to bet that they would have - I am a systems analyst in the rl and act as project manager on most projects. As such, I have to post weekly updates to everyone that my projects could affect. I have been called on the carpet lately for providing *too* much information to the user community! It can get real frustrating, because as systems people our job is to make things right for them and the way the want them - but sometimes those in control are such *visionaries* (IMHO, the visions are caused by hallucinogens). You tell them something will take six months to code, test, and implement - they say great and then give you a 3 month deadline! <sigh>
sorry to digress from the topic, but I would hate to be one of ebay's techies right now.....
posted on October 23, 2000 08:47:23 PM
There is no defending a so-called professional internet operation who can't operate. A year ago I said this was typical of internet companies founded by computer geeks with lots of comp tech. savy but little business sense. Their cyber~brains outpaced their ability to learn to operate a responsible enterprise.
Good thing eBay staffers didn't decide to make auto tires instead.
posted on October 23, 2000 09:21:50 PM
If you owned a B&M and told your customers that you might be open when they came around, do you think they would? Hardly. If you told your sellers on ebay that they might not get last minute bids because it might be down would you list. Hardly. I agree with the first post. It's an OUTRAGE!! I'm not sure it's even legal. But I do know that it's unethical.
Rather than buy Half.com, Butterfield's, the incredibly narrow Autotrader garbage, and the infinitely STUPID so-called Great Collections (great brain cramp that most people could give two....about), these people should put the money from the GOLDEN GOOSE called ebay back into the CASH COW called ebay. Who the hell makes this companies decisions? Halfwits, Dimwads, Morons? WHO? What's their e-mail address?
Money can't buy you love, and from the viewpoint of the cliff of frustration, that we all want to jump from ,it sure as hell doesn't buy BRAINS!!
I'm an idiot but an idiot that can't spell is inexcuseable, hence the edit.
[ edited by Puddy on Oct 23, 2000 09:25 PM ]
posted on October 24, 2000 06:36:43 AM
eBay was down again this morning!
This is RIDICULOUS!!!
They should credit EVERYONE'S ACCOUNT!
I know....It's only wishful thinking!
I wonder how many more Outages eBay has in store for us?
I shouldn't list anymore items...what's the sense?
posted on October 24, 2000 08:19:55 AM
Hi Rosalinda,
You're right. eBay should have told people ahead of time about the work they were going to do and the possibility of problems. They were apparently trying to make major changes "transparently", without causing a lot of downtime and it didn't work.
They should have had an amended plan already in place for handling the issues of extended auctions, refunds or free listings. They knew that because of how the system upgrade was structured, the site would probably be just functional enough to be able to slip in under their own policies regarding compensation to users due to site unavailability. So, rather than announce what was really going on, they crossed their fingers and hoped it would all work out.
This is very typical of the way eBay management thinks. They are all under the microscope. Everybody is looking at every move eBay makes. eBay the company is scared to death. Their legal department has a legal department. (joking I hope) But seriously, eBay is still trying to understand what it is. Sometimes it thinks it's just a venue, like it's own user agreement says. Other times it thinks it may be much more responsible than that, like it's lawyers are warning it might be. So there is constant internal conflict as eBay tires to figure out what to be and how to be it.
The sad thing is that eBay is afraid to talk to it's members. eBay is afraid to tell the truth because that's not traditionally the way business works. We are in the beginnings of a revolution in how business is conducted. Customers are tired of being underestimated and manipulated by big business. The internet and online trading allows communication like we've never experienced it before. Companies are going to find it increasingly difficult to keep their customers in the dark. eBay is still learning and evolving and this process will be going on for some time to come.
I hope eBay can in time, become more open and honest with it's members. I hope the atmosphere of open, honest, person to person trading that was the true foundation on which eBay was built, will survive and grow.
But eBay right now, is a company that is afraid. Afraid of legal problems, afraid of openness, afraid of competition, afraid of bad publicity and just plain afraid because of not knowing where eBay itself really stands as far as legal responsibility versus the online demand for openness and accountability.
Rosalinda, I agree eBay should have simply told people in advance about what was going on and compensated members for the problems they encountered. Unfortunately, eBay's not doing anything in a simple straight forward way. I sure hope they start soon but I'm not counting on it.
Ray
Edited to add: Sorry for the long post and of course, it's all just my opinion.
[ edited by RM on Oct 24, 2000 09:36 AM ]
posted on October 24, 2000 08:27:51 AM
I am as outraged as any one when ebay is down, even parts of it. I spend hours organizing auctions to have them end at the most opportune time of the day and week, it seems ebay could time planned outages even for parts of the database in the wee hours of the morning.
In ebay's defense the latest outages have not affected my auctions, last night many bids came through. I had to pull up each item by search by item number to notify the buyers.
I object to them referring us to the announcement board for updates and them not "updating" the board for 2 and a half hours. That's no update. Update ever 15 minutes if even to say "still working on the problem" so we know one has fallen asleep and forgotten about it.
posted on October 24, 2000 08:36:43 AM
Thanks to MAM and Tag notes, I'm all for
V O T E. And have.
If you don't get them, you are missing the entire point. Lies, deception and more lies.
Downright thievery. I pity these people because one sweet day they will pay.
RNR please keep up and keep posting. There are actually some who still defend this and I will never understand it.
posted on October 24, 2000 09:41:25 AM
mark090 ... thanks for the email addies. I have been wondering why the eBay responses have been so generic - I was using the wrong addies when I contacted them
posted on October 24, 2000 12:16:26 PM
Sorry RADH - they were FORCED into this admission - it was the reporters asking questions they KNEW they would have to answer that FINALLY caused them to post. I feel no empathy for someone who ADMITS they are a liar when they are CAUGHT at it. I agree with RM - just use your imagination - if ebaY several weeks ago had posted the TRUTH, and let sellers make a judgement as to take the risk or not, and if ebaY had posted a reasonable refund and extension policy for when things went (inevitably)haywire - what would have been the reaction? I would have been first in line to praise an open and honest attitude(as I have been on the RARE occasions it has happened in the past!). Maybe a few folks would have ceased listing, but they would have felt they had been dealt with fairly and honestly, NOT DEFRAUDED. Maybe their stock price would have dropped, but for how long? Guess what the stock price is doing today? Would you rather deal with a liar who fesses up when caught - or someone who tells the truth up front? -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
On Thursday, October 19th, someone who had written to [email protected] about the intermittant availability on eBay, received an email reply in which the following paragraph was contained:
"It has recently become apparent that our present system in no longer able to fully support the number of members that are hitting the sight at times. This is why we have been updating to newer server systems the last week.We assure you that this instability will be over once the new system is up fully and
functioning."
posted on October 24, 2000 01:20:41 PM
Software upgrades do not always work, the U.S. federal aviation software upgrade has caused major problems this past week, but as reported on CNN this morning, they at least had the ethical & proper sense to suspend all further upgrades until they are absolutely certain that it can be installed without crippling their system.
And there's the BOTTOM LINE!
Ebay is totally wrong to have not done the same thing. The BS about informing users they can expect a week & half or more of continuing outages -- which will more likely be much longer than that -- is in one word: SHAMEFUL!!
Bad bad management & customer service decisions here.
Go in to make a bid and the bidding is way beyond what showed in listing. What a waste of time.
But seriously, eBay is still trying to understand what it is. Sometimes it thinks it's just a venue, like it's own user agreement says. Other times it thinks it may be much more responsible than that, like it's lawyers are warning it might be. So there is constant internal conflict as eBay tires to figure out what to be and how to be it.