posted on October 25, 2000 10:48:46 PM
Just wondering if this has crossed seller's minds re outages... It would be an interesting poll to find out how many sellers relist items AFTER an outage has blacked out a potential sale.
Haven't done the math only briefly BUT -- if 10,000 items did not sell due to outages (under 2 hours of course with no refunds)at say 2.00 per listing, equalling $20,000 and IF even 50% of the sellers relist items it could generate about $10,000 on relisting fees.
Multiply this a few times - say 100 -- we're talking about a million dollars????????
If the initial sale went through this $$ wouldn't exist...........
From this point of view, are ebay outages such an unfortunate incident for THEM??????
Just idle thoughts on the matter~ since can't list OR relist
posted on October 26, 2000 06:27:34 AM
Except that when you relist, if the item sells, they refund the original listing fees--of course, they don't refund the extras like gallery and features...
posted on October 26, 2000 06:45:37 AM
Well they don't get FVF either or people like me who have reduced their listings by 80% over the last 3 weeks because of the problems-keeping my toe in the water, but until thins settle down, I'm not going for a swim. These outages have got to be costing them money IMO.
Rick
http://www.viastra-enterprises.com
posted on October 26, 2000 06:46:17 AM
That is an interesting idea, but I don't think even eBay wants money that way, and I don't believe it financially benefits eBay - because
1. The bad press is costly as it effects stock prices and stock holders
2. The lower % they get from auctions which close, sell, but for a much lower price, is also a lower % to them
3. The limited amount of sellers who finally get fed up and go elsewhere, is also a loss
You are charged to re-list your item. If it sells you are refunded the charge to re-list it. You ARE NOT refunded your original listing fee. Ebay’s re-listing fees are as follows.
=======================
You can relist your item one more time. If your item sells the second time around, you'll get a refund of the insertion fee for the second listing. Please make sure the following conditions apply:
- You didn't receive any bids on your listed item during your first regular auction.
- You didn't get any bids that met or exceeded your reserve price (for a Reserve Price Auction).
- You are re-listing the same item within 30 days of the closing date of the first auction.
- Since this offer is only good for one re-listing, you'll want to make the second try a good one!
============================
I believe many people are under the impression that re-listing is free. It is not. The re-listing fee is only credited if the item sells on the re-list. You still pay the original listing fee.
posted on October 26, 2000 08:11:13 AM corrdogg I tried to make that clear when I said Except that when you relist, if the item sells, they refund the original listing fees--of course, they don't refund the extras like gallery and features...
Except that I said that they refund the original listing fees less the extra charges like gallery etc. The insertion fees would be the same most of the time whether they refund the original insertion fee or the second one.
Excuse me for the error between the original insertion fee and the relist insertion fee.
posted on October 26, 2000 08:30:05 AM
Given the propensity of buyers to snipe at the last minute, and given the fact that FVF fees are, proportionately more than listing fees, I doubt ebay makes money from outages.
posted on October 26, 2000 11:47:29 AM
If the item doesn't sell on the first listing due to an outage--and again doesn't sell on the second listing due to an outage--eBay gets to keep both listing fees. Of course, they don't get a FVF--but they have still made more money on selling one item than if it had just been listed once. Then--if the seller is an eternal optimist--they may relist a third time! It's sort of like running a gambling game--the house always wins because they get a percentage of the pot.
posted on October 26, 2000 12:12:15 PM
I don't agree that the house (i.e., ebay) always wins in an outage. It loses a lot of FVF fees, which are much bigger than listing fees. Only if all the same number of items sell, and sell for the same amount, can we conclude that ebay "always wins".
Listen to the sellers screaming because their items sold for a LOT less than normal, and then see if you feel the same way. When sellers make less money, so does ebay.
In fact, its actually hard to find a way in which ebay does win with an outage.
I doubt you really have any idea if ebay does "OK" during outages...not that we have any idea what you mean by that? Does income keep coming in? well, sure. Is it as much as without an outage? I doubt it.
In terms of listing fees versus FVF, on a "typical" $20 (selling price) item that is listed starting at $9.99, the listing fee is a mere quarter, but the FVF is a buck. The point is, ebay does NOT want to jeopardize the FVF income with outages that kill all the last-minute bids - when that item sells for minimum bid because no one else could get in, they lose fifty cents, roughly 40% of their total income from that item.
Outages are bad news for ebay and sellers..an perhaps good news for buyers.
[ edited by captainkirk on Oct 26, 2000 04:10 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 04:27:18 PM
I dont think Ebay outages are done to make extra$$$ there is many reasons.
for one if you list twice and sell on the second time around they refund for your second listing.
Secondly Ebay makes more money over all on FVF when you sell at the highest posible amount if you get slugish veiws and an item sells one bid they ebay lose money not make more if there outage cause many of your listed item to end with out bids they dont make that coveted FVF. also the more times an item ends without good views and bid the more likely you will list it for less or list it some where else.
right now views and bids for this week alone for me are off almost 98% where they would have normally made $25 to $40 for my listings with sales they only get the $4 or $7 in listing fees.
posted on October 26, 2000 06:23:52 PM
I think eBay loses. In the past two weeks, with all the ups and downs, as both a buyer and a seller, my experience has been that deals are being made outside of eBay.
Last week, I sold two items after the auction ended, because the bidders couldn't get into to bid - loss to eBay of FVF - I was was thrilled.
Also last week, I was able to complete transactions with sellers of items I was bidding on, after the auction ended, because of the outages - again loss to eBay of FVF.
Both situations occurred due to reserves being placed, so neither myself as a seller or the other sellers were "screwed" as a result of the outages.
I am sick of going to the announcement board and reading about all the changes in between all the notices about the outages. I wish they would just fix the problem first the right way and then slowly implement the new changes. Of course, I am sure I am not the only seller who feels that way.
www.xenavalloneantiques.com
posted on October 26, 2000 06:39:30 PM
Guys and Gals,
eBay doesn't make money they lose money.. listing fees aren't where they make their money it is in FVF fees. This is a simple problem that has evrthing to do with traffic.
Simply put eBay doesn't have the server strength and bandwidth to handle the traffic. If it were bells and whistles.. Then the UK and other country servers would have similar glitches.
No, this seems to start every night for the last several weeks at about the same time the West Coast is getting home, through dinner, and getting online. Add them to the East Coast who is on the backend of their evening, equals too much traffic.
I remember reading in a tech article a couple of months ago that eBay bought a certain brand of servers. I remember several competitors arguing that they made a bad decision based solely on cost and would have problems with the ones they were going to use. I thought it was just sour grapes to the losing companies.. But every since we've got past the summer season and the traffic has increased.. We get the same errors.
I know that it is hard to leave eBay, and no one can put their eggs in one sales basket anyway. But if everyone would refrain from listing on eBay for 1 week and let all of their auctions end and not re-list for a week, it would cause them serious financial pain.
Now, I realize this isn't going to happen. Some of us have money invested in products that we need to turn over and can't afford not to list, but, I don't see a better solution.
I do like ePier.com it looks and feels just like eBay, unfortunately it doesn't get any traffic therfore no page hits and no BIDS!
posted on October 26, 2000 06:49:37 PM
GolfNFool: You need a new line. It's NOT that hard to leave eBay. Pensons Y! (That's french for "think about it!"
posted on October 26, 2000 06:55:04 PM
Thanks for all the wonderful input on this "Off the wall observation" -- Looks like a mix of opinions here with the margin of ebay NOT making more money. However, it would be incorrect to assume we have the correct "spin" on their numbers since we are not privvy to them.
The real point here was - IF the site goes down for UNDER 2 HOURS,(as it is doing almost daily now) ebay does NOT totally LOSE. The math is in the reslistings. How do we know what the average percent of successful auctions is?
For all we know : the relists/no sales, MAY OUTNUMBER relists/with sales, therefore generating far more volume than FVF's. In effect - sellers are "paying double" for zero sales. I know, since I've relisted due to a non-refundable outage and it did NOT sell second time round DUE to getting caught in ANOTHER outage. I downsized my auctions about a year ago due to this very fact.
With this many outages---the odds of zero sales on relists is becoming verrry obvious.
Most outages occur during PEAK bidding time and cannot recall one lasting EVER over 2 hours. This causes relisting..............
posted on October 26, 2000 07:01:35 PM
AuntieJean.. I have thought about it.. NO make that TRIED it.. I have tried several different auction sites. Unfortunately, I don't get the volume nor amounts of bids I get on eBay. That is why I stay.. Although I would like to see a bit of a financial jolt go into them. I get tired of seeing on the announcement boards "Thanks for your patience"
That is presuming I still have patience for these outages which I don't
I welcome any reasonable set of assumptions you might throw out to show that there is any possible way for the number of ADDITIONAL "two in a row completely unsuccessful auctions so ebay actually gets an extra relist fee" to generate more revenue than is lost from all the FVF decreases.
Remember..the ONLY cases where ebay makes money from outages that they wouldn't have without them is where an outage does actually cause the case above. Every other situation results in less revenue. When an item is sold, but at the same or lower cost, ebay loses. When an item doesn't sell the first time, but does the second, ebay doesn't make mmore money. When an item doesn't sell two times in a row, but is a "piece of junk" that wouldn't have sold even without an outage, ebay doesn't make any more money.
And I'm not even counting the "collateral" damage - sellers who disappear, extra customer support costs, extra programmer costs, etc.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:22:10 PM
I as a seller am tired of seeing annoucements that ebay is down again or unavailable in different areas. I do not like it when I go to check my listings and find temporary outage! My sales have been down and as some of you said that means no sale - relisting, YUCK! I too have thought of leaving ebay and trying another site but the traffic on ebay keeps me there.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:48:58 PMDBorde2763 It doesn't hurt to move SOME of your items to another auction site--just to help minimize the "hurt" when Ebay is down.
