posted on October 27, 2000 06:18:35 PM new
I was browsing in one of my favorite categories a few minutes ago. I found a high dollar item that is going for over 500.00 (reserve not yet met) and the photo tells me it's been altered--not original at all. It's a major descrepency not even mentioned in the description, yet it's very subtle and someone who hasn't studied these things (a lot) will likely not even notice.
I emailed the seller telling him what I noticed. His feedback is so-so, and I'm wondering if the description is brief and the photo blurry for a reason. We'll see if he adds to description, but I kind of doubt he will, just my impression from his feedback.
Would you mind your own business at this point and sit back and watch someone get screwed? Or...
posted on October 27, 2000 06:22:52 PM new
If the person running the auction doesn't change it and there is a bid, I would forward the reply and auction number to safe harbor. Don't be judgemental, but honest.
my .02 worth
posted on October 27, 2000 06:23:50 PM new
You did what I would do. Email the seller. Beyond that, there isnt anything much you can do. I know it's hard but you can't really email the bidders, you would be the one in trouble. Ebay does not care about that and they will not help. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
posted on October 27, 2000 06:25:03 PM new
I would not keep quiet. I would do what I hope someone else would do for me. I personally cannot, in good conscience, watch innocent people getting ripped off, cheated, taken advantage of, etc. Epecially for such a large amount of money.
posted on October 27, 2000 06:26:34 PM new
In fairness I have to say I don't think ebay is capable of judging it in this situation. AFTER the sale there is the insurance and all, (worthless) but before the sale they are jeopordizing the venue status, and we all know they arent going to do that. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
posted on October 27, 2000 06:33:52 PM new
Keep you mouth shut.
It's none of your business.
If you think the item is modified, are you 100% certain? Can you be ABSOLUTELY sure by looking at the photo. Even if so, does the description say "unaltered" or simply say nothing.
The individual bidding, assuming he is an adult, is a free American free to do as he pleases with his money. It's only YOUR opinion that its overpriced. Appanrtly TWO bidders disagree. (it takes tow high bidders to get a price up) Are these bidders prohibited from contacting the seller? Are they prohibited to contact an expert opinion on the item?
posted on October 27, 2000 06:40:19 PM newunknown says, but in an antagonistic way...
If you think the item is modified, are you 100% certain?
Yes, I am 100% certain, and I don't mean 99.9%. I have a lot of time and study into this type of item--years in fact. And if your reading comprehension were a little better, you would have noticed that I said it wasn't mentioned in the description in my original post on the subject.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 27, 2000 06:43 PM ]
posted on October 27, 2000 06:47:27 PM new
You MUST NOT interfere with an ongoing auction. That's *auction interference* in ebay's terms -- strictly against the rules (and one of them they tend to actually enforce) -- and you WOULD be the one in hot water. No question.
I am wondering, tho, what you might be able to do after the auction ended. I dunno.
I don't agree that it's none of your business. I think it's EVERYONE'S business to (a) try to do what they can within rules and laws to protect people from misrepresentation of items (whether intentional misrepresentation or not) and (b) try to keep ebay fraud-free. (Tho I wish ebay would care just a little more about that problem themselves. Sigh.)
There's a board on ebay called SafeHarbor. In Community. You might wander over there and ask if there's anything you can do. I've seen some excellent advice and counsel given out on that board, tho I haven't frequented it in a while.
BTW, I'm curious. Without giving away what the item is, what kind of alteration are you talking about? Don't answer if you can't keep it general enough to not reveal what you don't want to reveal.
posted on October 27, 2000 06:49:51 PM new
loosecannon
What a shame, but I would say stay out of it for your own protection. What kind of feedback do the bidders have? Hope they're not newbies and have asked the right questions, especially about returns.
posted on October 27, 2000 06:59:23 PM new
CleverGirl
Yes, I can tell you because I don't think there's any way the auction could be found unless I led you to it.
It's a guitar and the neck is a replacement. It's been replaced by a neck from the same company that made the guitar, but a different model neck that was originally put on the instrument. How do I know? Subtle differences such as number of frets and differences in hardware.
Yes, I'm certain that the company would not have put it out this way, and equally as certain that it would be extremely easy to change. The neck could be changed on this type of guitar in a matter of minutes. It's a big problem with this brand of guitar--originality--because the parts are so easily switched around.
I'm not saying the thing is worthless, I'm saying it's misrepresented. Intentional or not.
posted on October 27, 2000 07:00:25 PM new
Contacting bidders is auction interference no matter how much you would like someone to do you the favor if the roles were reversed.
I recently saw a description for what was obviously a printed polyester flag. The description noted they were selling it for a friend who told them it was "silk" and that it had "cost $80". It was worth $5-10.
I emailed the seller noting that I had some experience in the area, and that they probably wouldn't want to misrepresent anything that could eventually become negative feedback from an unhappy bidder. I also apologized for barging in, but thought that would perhaps want to know.
They cancelled the listing. Don't know if it was an honest mistake or not, but the seller avoided unwanted problems by reacting honestly.
posted on October 27, 2000 11:59:26 PM new
Aw, gee, LC - bet you wish you hadn't even noticed this auction. What a bummer!
Glad to hear you emailed the seller - it could so easily be me! If the replacement was done professionally and the seller is not an 'authority' on guitars, or this brand guitar, s/he may have been oblivious to the problem.
Watch the auction a day or two and see what happens. If it were I, and the bid was up to $500.00, I would have difficulty cancelling my auction on the basis of an email from one person, if I didn't know his/her credentials. (We do get an ocassional nut on eBay, you know, but don't tell anyone.) HOWEVER, I would get VERY busy and do some hard and fast investigating.
Did you perhaps refer this seller to some other website(s) or authority to confirm what you told him/her? That might help.
But I think that in the final analysis you have done all you realistically can do. If the seller is honest, s/he will take some kind of action; if not, there isn't much you or I can do about it. Like the poor, the dishonest, and deluded, are with us always.
Still wish it had been a Snorkel, but the unvarnished truth revealed it wasn't.
posted on October 28, 2000 01:16:27 AM newWould you mind your own business at this point and sit back and watch someone get screwed?
I won't tell you what I'd do, but I will tell what I'd like to happen to me in a similar situation. If I was a bidder and was given a serious alert to look closer via anonymous email I'd be grateful.
When a buyer gets scammed it reflects poorly on the honest sellers.
posted on October 28, 2000 02:44:57 AM new
I came across an ebay listing for an "authentic Victorian" footstool that had been "restored and reupholstered", according to the seller's description. She had a $150 opening for it with no bids yet.
Since it was obviously a currently-produced imported reproduction (of which I had a few IDENTICAL ones in my inventory at the time), I emailed the seller and told her so (even told her the wholesale price of $15, and the sizes/colors/fabrics available). I didn't ACCUSE her of deliberately misrepresenting it and trying to cheat the bidders, since I knew it was *possible* she had bought it as a restored antique, having never seen any of the duplicates that were flooding the market.
She didn't end the auction, nor did she alter her description or add to it in any way.
I was very disappointed, because FROM THEN ON SHE WAS BEING DISHONEST in her listing, knowing that it was a reproduction and continuing to represent it as antique. The auction ended with a single bidder paying $150, some poor innocent buyer getting TAKEN TO THE CLEANERS on yet another ebay purchase.
If the guitar seller in question is honest and was unaware that the neck is a replacement, at the very least he'll try to verify your claim. If his research shows that you're right, he'll edit his auction description to reflect it; it not, I would expect him to write you back to say you're wrong.
If the guitar seller is dishonest and knew the neck was a replacement when he listed, or finds out it's a replacement and leaves his listing unchanged, you can hope his reserve won't be met.
Uaru's suggestion of an anonymous email to the bidders is a good one, but is it really POSSIBLE to send an email without the possibility of it being traced back to you? If that can be done, I'd say go for it, but don't jeopardize your standing with ebay by alerting the bidders if there's any chance you could be identified as a "meddler" in someone else's auction.
posted on October 28, 2000 04:26:10 AM new
First, I'd give the seller some time to update his/her listing (a day or two). For the heck of it, I'd probably check out their other auctions, both completed and ongoing. Does he deal mainly in guitars or is this a one-time shot? (Not that this really makes any difference but I'd 'feel' differently depending on which it is.)
You shouldn't e-mail the bidders because that would be 'auction interference'. But why not contact the high bidder *after* the auction.
Can you be absolutely certain that these other bidders might not be actively bidding due to NASTALGIA reasons - or maybe even are guitar restorers who KNOW what the guitar is composed of?
There are times when I've waY overbid on items - but I was QUITE serious with my bid amounts, as the items were things dh had spent DECADES looking for.
Isn't there a place called something like [email protected] to report fraudulent or infringing auctions?
On another thread, neomax suggested making a bid on the item, and then RETRACTING YOUR BID, and stating the reason that the mdse was misrepresented.
However, bid retractions are a permanent part of your eBay userid record.
EVER HEARD OF THE ANONYMIZER?
Some place on their website, is place where one can send anonymous emails --- however, please realize that what is "anonomous" nowadays, may NOT be so a decade hence, okay?
AND there is always the Internet Fraud Complaint Center run by the FBI who is currently conducting an extensive probe into shilling activities at online auctions.
IF you feel SO strongly, you could report it there - but your complaint MAY become a public record, so do think this through, okay?
posted on October 28, 2000 08:16:46 AM new
No one polices these auctions, or the internet in general, except us. I understand the need for ebay's rules. The meaning is correct, but the result often isn't. I would email the seller, as you did. I would also email the bidder, using an anonymous account, and simply share your doubts. If the bidder is aware of the mods, they will disregard your email. If they're being duped, they will be grateful.
posted on October 28, 2000 08:17:23 AM new
Having played guitar for some time, I don't think I would ever purchase a guitar off a website, especially eBay. There's just too much that could be wrong; sound, action, defects--undoubetdly those potential damages added in transit too, etc. Instruments, especially purely acoustic ones, have such personalities that you'd be flying blind and deaf on such a deal.
That said, many dealers are largely oblivious to details of stuff they sell in almost every selling environment. How many such transactions exist on eBay. My educated guesss is between 5-10%. In many cases it doesn't matter; otherwise it is a coin toss whether it will help or hurt the buyer. If you emailed the seller, then drop it, it isn't worth it to risk your eBay business on.
posted on October 28, 2000 09:12:01 AM new
Hey unknown
He emailed back and here's a copy, but I will edit out a couple of words that will help identify the auction.
[i]"you right.i have the original __ neck and will put it on if i get a high
bidder thats meets my reserve.as now i prefer the _____ radius to
play.your very observant as none of the bidders noticed."[/i]
Whatcha got to say now?
Edited to add:
I don't care for his method, but at least he was honest with me about it. The thing is, some might have noticed. If he had the correct neck on it he might have his reserve already.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 28, 2000 09:46 AM ]
