rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 06:56:01 AM
I would really appreciate someones input with this. Here is my correspondence (If you can call it that with one of my former sellers)I saw a thread on this a while ago here and someone suggested to contact a person about things like that and that is what I did. I personally did not think it was sarcastic or even meant like that and I certainly do appreciated all the help I got from that person in the past. But I certainly did not expect this kind of reply at all. So who is wrong and "immature" and how do I reply to this?(I did not even mention hat I thought she/he also copied my picture).
Hi ......,
how are you doing? By researching one of my repeat customers that still has not come through with a payment I stumbled onto you again and out of curiosity I wanted to see what kind of "Goodies" you have.
You are a very experienced seller and know therefore how much time and effort we sometimes put into coming up with the right way to describe our items.
Just imagine my surprise when I read your description for the ......... Wow if that is ( with one or two little changes) not exactly my description for my items. Especially that I had a lot of ........up for sale not that long ago, too.
I was also under the impression if someone would like to use someones description in almost the same way an E-mail would be in order to ask if that would be OK.
I was very "surprised" to say the least to see this happening to me especially by someone that I thought I had a good business-relationship established with.
If you do not mind and have some time, I would really like to hear your thoughts about this.
Take care......
I got two replies:
First:
Your letter was sarcastic and I do not appreciate the tone whatsoever. Do not write me again. You must really have NO life at all to be writing someone with such petty nonsense.
Second:
[b]One more thing......do not forget ......, that I was the one who took the time when YOU were new to eBay to help you out about how to sell etc. I went above and beyond my duty to explain a number of things to you, which I felt was VERY nice of me. If I want to use someone's description (yours included) for selling an item on eBay, I have every right to do so. Anyone can use mine and I would not give two hoots! What on earth is the BIG DEAL? I would be tickled if someone felt my description was "good enough" to use for themselves! I certainly would not care if they had my permission first? There is no "rule" that states that one has to ask that person first!!!! I was just sitting here thinking about your letter to me and I am laughing about it. I feel so sorry for you. I certainly wish I had the time that you obviously do to waste writing such silliness. Perhaps you need to seek professional help? I suggest you take some time and think about how incredibly immature you are behaving.
Please do not ever bid on my items again. If you feel the need to complain to anyone, maybe you should take my advice and see a professional. [/b]
Does anybody have any thoughts about this, I personally found the reply very rude and undeserved.
Edited to put the replies in bold(Thats the way they came) it does not seem to work for me that well.
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 06:57 AM ]
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 06:59 AM ]
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 07:01 AM ]
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 07:02 AM ]
|
CleverGirl
|
posted on November 13, 2000 07:25:32 AM
What this seller has done is a violation of copyright law, whether s/he believes it or not. Having helped you in the past is no justification for helping themselves to your work in the present (or ever).
Write SafeHarbor about it, DEFINITELY including all the correspondence between the two of you, esp. since the 2nd from this jerk is an admission that they lifted your description. Also include the auction numbers.
I have in the past been disappointed by SafeHarbor's lack of attention to certain things, but it's my understanding they take copyright infringement pretty seriously.
Good luck!
|
brighid868
|
posted on November 13, 2000 07:30:05 AM
What a *#@*#&%$. Do you have her address? Me, I'd probably make up some attorney-looking letterhead and write her a scathing letter telling her to cease and desist before I brought a lawsuit against her.
I think that her replies to your very polite email were completely defensive, rude, uncalled for and ignorant.
Please invite her here so we can set her sorry hiney straight.
Fuming for you,
Kim
|
KateArtist
|
posted on November 13, 2000 07:34:02 AM
Actually this seller is wrong - all written material is copyrighted the moment it is created. You can convey the gist of what someone else writes, but legally you are not allowed to use their exact words.
Of course the only legal recourse is to take this person to civil court and sue them for the financial damage they have done you. In such a case as this, I can't imagine that it would be worth it.
If anyone did that to me, I'd probably burn them good with a very nasty letter and if it was blatent and repeated enough I'd probably be posting something very sarcastic about it in my auctions making it obvious to buyers what and who was doing such a thing.
No it's not cool to rip off another person and steal their copy. It takes work to create that (hand on head - its the part of this stuff that takes me the longest and I hate the most). It may be that someone will accidently create the same copy but if it happens a couple of times, unlikely. This person was foolish enough to admit it.
You deserve an apology.
[ edited by KateArtist on Nov 13, 2000 07:36 AM ]
|
AndieBelle
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:13:18 AM
Hmm, the old "you should be flattered" defense for his/her blatant plagarism...somehow, I don't think this would hold up in court!
You're not alone--this happened to me more than once. I never had to take it this far, but I'm told the VeRO program applies to your auction descriptions, which are indeed copyrighted at the moment of creation. You were quite polite in your first letter to him/her, considering the circumstances, and her nasty reply was totally unwarranted.
He/she is absolutely in the wrong. If all else fails...perhaps you could find out what the going rate is for freelance copywriters, and send him/her a bill? 
|
beatnikangel
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:35:48 AM
You are completely in the right. I didn't find the tone of your letter sarcastic at all.
Please contact safe harbor about this. They will take action. You'll have to fill out a form saying what auctions were involved and eBay will send a warning to the other seller. eBay does take this kind of thing seriously.
Denise
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:38:37 AM
So far thank you for your support; it makes me feel a bit better and not completely alone. I just mailed a complaint to Safeharbour as suggested. And while I was writing my "Novel" to them I realized how upset and mad I really was (not just surprised)especially finding out that a person I thought was very nice turns out to be just plain nasty and rude. I am also a person that is always there fore new buyers and sellers if they need advise, but this is just my nature and I see it just as "good neighbourly" and a "Nice girl duty" and definetely good customer service. That does not give me the right to just take someone elses ideas and make them mine. It took me quite some time to come up with a simple but still informative way to describe my items without writing a novel; and yes I am pleased if someone likes my description but that doesn't give anybody the right just to use it (Oh, boy I am getting more mad as I am getting along here. I better slow down and take a "Valium"[angry]
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 08:40 AM ]
|
reddeer
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:40:10 AM
Read this:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-copyrights.html
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:47:30 AM
To report a violation, go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html
and select Questionable Item-> Trademarked and Counterfeit Items-> Copied Picture/Text, unauthorized Linking-> Continue-> Submit and fill out the form.
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:53:45 AM
I reported this to Safeharbour under
42010999 Questionable Items: Listing Policies: Other Listing Violation.
Is that OK, too or do I have to file another report?
Edited for spelling-mistake:
Wow I did not know that you can get that upset that you forget your spelling!
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 08:55 AM ]
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on November 13, 2000 08:57:47 AM
I don't see why not- there are probably a couple of different ways you could look at it, but the goal is the same- to get eBay to encourage the other person to stop stealing your work.
|
mark090
|
posted on November 13, 2000 09:04:33 AM
I sometimes wonder if a description is copyrightable. Think about it, if all descriptions were completely accurate for the same item, wouldn't they be the same? Or is only one person allowed to describe something accuately?
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 09:04:50 AM
reddeer
[i] what is copyright:
you may be infringing someone's copyright when:
You copy someone else's auction text and (without permission) paste it into your own auction to sell the same item (Making slight modifications to the text may not relieve you of liability if it is substantially similar to the original text.[i/b]
This is exactly what she/he did; she/he cut and paste my description and then added his/her own payment and shipping terms.
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 09:13:51 AM
[mark090]
There is more then one way to describe the same item accurately without stealing someone elses exact words.
I find nothing wrong with getting ideas from other sellers that offer the same item but there is something called a THESAURUS that helps very well with finding different words and also each individual usually has his/her own ways and style in formulating a description.
IMO it would be a big coincidence to find two people that think exactly alike to come up with exactly the same description for the same item. And how often do you actually would end up having 2 exactly the same items, there are usually just slight differences (depending on what you are selling - with most of my items that would be a miracle)
|
macandjan
|
posted on November 13, 2000 09:17:31 AM
I thought that rather than being sarcastic you were bending over backwards to be polite and register disappointment rather than anger. It was the other party who was quick to ascribe bad motives. It is helpful to put a notice like : pics and text Copyright ©2000
on the end of the description - serving notice to what they should already know.
Sorry to say just because we get along with someone does not mean you will remain in agreement forever. Protect what is yours.
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 09:22:54 AM
mark090
Something different, how do you do the fist-thing? I have seen it on a SMILIES thread before and I assume you got the copyright for it or would someone else be able to use it?
I guess my question is still related it has to do with copyrights!
|
mark090
|
posted on November 13, 2000 11:05:00 AM
rxo120
I created it. It was assembled from several different GIFs. Someone can copy it or create it themselves using the same, easily obtainable GIFs. Or they can draw the GIFs themselves and assemble it.
However, you can not copyright a common word or statement. I can not copyright the word "widget" or its description. No matter how elaborately I describe it, if there is nothing unique to it, then, someone else, without seeing your description, could possibly also describe it the exact same way if he/she has the same type of "widget"
For example: The song "Happy Birthday" is copyrighted because the melody and words together form a unique thing, but writing "Happy Birthday to You" and "How Old are You" several times on a card does not constitute copyright infringement.
P.S. My animated GIF is free for all to use if they want.
[ edited by mark090 on Nov 13, 2000 11:07 AM ]
|
Brooklynguy-07
|
posted on November 13, 2000 11:20:36 AM
What a waste of time and effort on your part. This person apparently helped you out in the past and this is how you thank them. The person saw your listing and liked it so they used it but first made a few changes. Big friggin' deal. I hope you feel much better now that you've turned in this horrible person. She is a true threat to society.
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 12:34:52 PM
BROOKLYNGUY
That this seller told me about AW and how to get pictures in an auction has nothing to do what she/he is doing now. The description she/he took was for books, she/he cut and pasted my description (and better took out that there was a stamp on the first page if his/her book does not have that)other than that it was MY DESCRIPTION!
And YES I feel much better having reported this COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT.
And if this is not such a big deal in your view why did this person get so defensive and outright rude!
[ edited by rxo120 on Nov 13, 2000 12:38 PM ]
|
abacaxi
|
posted on November 13, 2000 05:10:50 PM
"If I want to use someone's description (yours included) for selling an item on eBay, I have every right to do so."
Actually, there is a FEDERAL law and several international teraties that say he/she CAN'T.
I have only spotted on rip-off of an auction listing I did ... I sent them a bill for my writing services, charging my minimum rate for freelance work: $50/hour with a 4 huor minimum. they erupted, and I pointed out that good words were going to cost them money, and to never steal another listing of mine.
|
Brooklynguy-07
|
posted on November 13, 2000 05:28:28 PM
It's just an auction listing, how many different ways can you describe the same book? What damage was done?
[ edited by brooklynguy on Nov 13, 2000 05:30 PM ]
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 05:49:38 PM
BROOKLYNGUY
It is the principle of matter! Figure out your own d... way of describing your items!
Actually I just checked all my former auctions with the same item (I had a few of the same books just minor differences in the condition of the books)
I now realize that this person took one specific auction of mine and copied the whole thing (title and everything - I always put a very specific word behind my titles, if I have enough room for it - she/he didn't even change the condition of the book).So therefore she/he really copied everything and when I look closely at the picture that sure looks very familiar. She/he better makes sure that what she/he offers is exactly as the picture shows; but when everything else is stolen why would that person actually bother and scan in that specific item when you can also just copy it!
|
Brooklynguy-07
|
posted on November 13, 2000 06:04:58 PM
rxo 120 - I don't doubt for a second that the person copied your listing. I'm just not sure what you were expecting to accomplish with your email to this person.
You wrote in your email to this person: "If you do not mind and have some time, I would really like to hear your thoughts about this".
What were your expectations as to how you thought the person would respond? Also, why not invite the person to this forum and get their side of the story instead of talking behind their back?
|
KateArtist
|
posted on November 13, 2000 06:41:30 PM
Since she never said who the other person was, how could it be detrimental to that person?
rxo120 did nothing wrong in asking the question, and her phrasing was simply a polite way of broaching the 'I think you did something wrong and I think you should apologise and stop doing it' kind of situation. I would have expected the other person to feel ashamed, apologise sincerely and stop.
what did you think the other person should have said?
[ edited by KateArtist on Nov 13, 2000 06:45 PM ]
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 06:49:36 PM
brooklynguy
I more than likely thought along the line of a normal conversation and maybe an apology and promise not to do this kind of thing anymore. I do not know maybe I am living in my own dreamworld but if I try to put myself into an situation like that (I have never done anything like that neither will I ever do it)and would have been caught I would have apologized and promised never to do this again to anybody and I would have tried to have a civilized communication and not go off like that. If I would have done something wrong there would be no reason to be rude to the person that points this out to me. But this is my opinion and as I found out certainly not the one of that particular seller or probably even a lot of other people.
|
rxo120
|
posted on November 13, 2000 06:54:25 PM
kateartist
I did not see you post before I answered to brooklynguy. I am sure glad to see that our thoughts are on the same wavelenght. You almost said word by word the same that I did.
|
BlackCoffeeBlues
|
posted on November 13, 2000 10:28:58 PM
rxo; you had every right to be angry and i think your letter was very civil and polite. no sarcasm at all. i think the person reacted with guilt and it turned into defensiveness, making him/her imagine sarcasm where there was none.
i'll tell ya, nothing like a little confrontation to bring out the true colors in someone. sad but true. some people just cannot stand being wrong, or having it suggested to them that they might have acted improperly, and they freak out like that. i know, i once had a 5 year friendship end over something similar.
i agree with you 100%, btw. i have been writing descriptions for auctions for 2 evenings in a row now. everything else is done, the pictures, the details, the image uploads, blah blah... the *descriptions* are WORK, unless you are one of those sellers who just slaps up a picture and says "Large women's blouse. Cash, checks, money orders accepted."  I would resent someone taking advantage of my hard work as well!
Sheri
[email protected]
|
kitsch1
|
posted on November 13, 2000 11:06:17 PM
Writing a good descrip is not only work but its a personal work of art in selling.
I would have emailed as well. Only thing different, mine would not be quite so nice.
|
starrr222
|
posted on November 14, 2000 12:38:40 AM
Hey, just email this very uncreative person back and tell them you have a friend/Me who will be happy to write their descriptions, for a small fee of course!!LOL what a looser, you should just go and copy one of their des and email them to them... sorry i think humor has it's place with these cyber idiots!!!!
|
mark090
|
posted on November 14, 2000 09:18:31 AM
Alot of things that have been discussed in this thread.......have been said be me in one way or another. Therefore you all have violated my copyright.
The above was only a test of the HUMORLESS POSTER NETWORK. Had there been any humorless poster online you would directed to ignore this thread and get on with your life. I repeat, this was only a test.....You may now continue to continue examining copyright law out of context......
|
